"Lebron has to be the best basketball player to ever play" - Alex Caruso

[QUOTE=Stanley Kobrick;14180903]caruso is the definition of knowing exactly what your role is on a team and seizing the moment to perfection. unfortunetaly i expect him to get the dellavedova contract and be forgotten in a couple years. rotting somewhere in orlando or sacramento. what was the topic again?[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14180967]Great point, I was born in 1990 and I definitely have childhood nostalgia with MJ from Space Jam-1998 Finals. Sure I was young, but I remember being obsessed and in awe of MJ (as well as basketball in general). It felt like he could do no wrong and would never lose.

If I was born in 94...then I would have literally missed all of that.

Caruso's nostalgia would definitely be more around Kobe and very young Lebron.[/QUOTE]
Same. Born in 90 and even growing up in Orlando with shaq penny hype we all knew MJ the man

[QUOTE=light;14181289]I was going to say the same thing. It's very high IQ of Caruso to have known that by 2010. Other people who were saying that at the time were also high IQ guys in Oscar Robertson and Larry Bird.[/QUOTE]

I was 100% convinced LeBron was the GOAT just from seeing 2009.

I had not seen that before from any one in history.

11 years later I am proven right.

[QUOTE=3ball;14181276]Lebron isn't great because he's a destroyer of the best brand of basketball - organic chemistry - he replaced it with talent-based winning, aka best recruiter wins, no chemistry basketball

So he isn't great and is infact a bad person.. a fraud in every way, starting with his manufactured basketball resume - he had 1 Finals run in a weak conference like Iverson, Dwight or Kidd) until the"decision"

otherwise, he was completely embarrassed in 08', 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding - it was to stop getting embarrassed..

Then Dirk gave lebron karma by doing what lebron couldn't - win with a 1-star, organic team... so stop watching the lies on ESPN..

Btw, lebron's inability to win organically is a skill deficit.. his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby requiring ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)[/QUOTE]

LeBron's lead in the G.O.A.T. race extends even further now:

Jordan only had 3 playoff PER runs over 30 in entire career (minimum 2nd round)

LeBron has[B] 7 playoff PER[/B] runs over 30 in entire career.

[IMG]https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif[/IMG]

2018 LeBron PER > any of Jordan's playoff PER.

32.2 > Any playoff PER Jordan.

2009 playoffs 37.4 PER > Anything Jordan could have ever done statistically.


LeBron's peak > Jordan's peak.
LeBron's longevity > Jordan's longevity.

[QUOTE=And1AllDay;14181357]LeBron's lead in the G.O.A.T. race extends even further now:

Jordan only had 3 playoff PER runs over 30 in entire career (minimum 2nd round)

LeBron has[B] 7 playoff PER[/B] runs over 30 in entire career.

[IMG]https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif[/IMG]

2018 LeBron PER > any of Jordan's playoff PER.

32.2 > Any playoff PER Jordan.

2009 playoffs 37.4 PER > Anything Jordan could have ever done statistically.


LeBron's peak > Jordan's peak.
LeBron's longevity > Jordan's longevity.[/QUOTE]

:cheers: Spread the wisdom on this 3ball spambot.

[QUOTE=light;14181264]Caruso said he realized LeBron was the GOAT around 2009-10.

Imagine thinking LeBron James is the greatest ever and then [I]after that[/I] he goes to 8 consecutive finals and wins 4 titles and 4 Finals MVPs. In other words, the 8 consecutive finals and 4 titles have only been icing.

That happened for a lot of people which is one reason why support for LeBron is so strong.[/QUOTE]
While i agree that he's the goat player of the last decade, you can't also overlook that he lost b2b finals as well. His longevity is amazing but he still had different teams to help him build that.

[QUOTE=Axe;14181408]While i agree that he's the goat player of the last decade, you can't also overlook that he lost b2b finals as well. His longevity is amazing but he still had different teams to help him build that.[/QUOTE]

No, you can overlook that. All finals losses aren't equal. Each has its own story. The public understands all of this and they know the story of each of LeBron's finals trips.

So...

[B]They excuse his loss in 2007 because he was a one man team against an all-time great team.[/B]
[INDENT][I]In a case like this, hyperbole or not, the public has come to believe that no one else in history could've taken that team to the finals that year.[/I][/INDENT]

[B]They excuse his losses when it was the first year on a new team (2011 and 2015).[/B]
[INDENT][I]This actually applies to every player. We give them a break in year 1.

What LeBron did in the 2015 Finals is actually considered to be a plus for his legacy even in a loss.[/I][/INDENT]

[B]They excuse his loss in 2014 because Wade (and Bosh) went AWOL.[/B]
[INDENT][I]Wade admitted that he checked out - he and the Heat (Bosh) were burnt out after 4 consecutive finals trips.[/I][/INDENT]

[B]The public is aware of what the 73-9 Warriors did in order to beat LeBron in 2017.[/B]
[INDENT][I]The public demonized Kevin Durant for joining the Warriors, they do not criticize LeBron for losing to them.[/I][/INDENT]

[B]LeBron's 2018 run is considered to be one of his greatest achievements even though he lost in the finals.[/B]
[INDENT][I]The Cavs were written off after Kyrie Irving left. They were further written off after all of their new additions failed to gel and were traded. The expectation was that the Cavs were finally going to lose to the Raptors in the 2nd round. Toronto was the heavy favorite. Toronto got swept.

2018 is similar to 2007 in that the public believes that was something only LeBron could've done.[/I][/INDENT]

It's important to keep in mind that after all of these hiccups LeBron always came back to reclaim the title, and sometimes under unbelievable circumstances. That's a major factor.

So the practical reality is that, for the public, the finals losses really do not reflect poorly on LeBron at all.

Dude lost to Dwight Howard with HCA and won 2 bronze medals for America in basketball. Can't be that good.

[QUOTE=light;14181876]No, you can overlook that. All finals losses aren't equal. Each has its own story. The public understands all of this and they know the story of each of LeBron's finals trips.

So...

[B]They excuse his loss in 2007 because he was a one man team against an all-time great team.[/B]
[INDENT][I]In a case like this, hyperbole or not, the public has come to believe that no one else in history could've taken that team to the finals that year.[/I][/INDENT][/QUOTE]

Magically [I]no one[/I] (not MJ, Wilt, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, etc), could take the 2007 team to the finals facing teams like the Nets and Wizards. :lol

Do you give this same excuse for MJ facing teams like the '86 Celtics? Of course not. :lol

[QUOTE][B]They excuse his losses when it was the first year on a new team (2011 and 2015).[/B]
[INDENT][I]This actually applies to every player. We give them a break in year 1.[/QUOTE]

Really? So they get magically gentlemen swept the first three rounds off of a lack of chemistry, then went up 1-0 against Dallas, and conveniently lost the next 4/5 games because of a lack of chemistry? Do you give the same excuse for MJ playing with fresh talent in Pippen and Grant? With a new addition in Cartwright? Of course not:lol

[QUOTE][B]They excuse his loss in 2014 because Wade (and Bosh) went AWOL.[/B]
[INDENT][I]Wade admitted that he checked out - he and the Heat (Bosh) were burnt out after 4 consecutive finals trips.[/I][/INDENT][/QUOTE]

Does MJ get the same excuse playing with an injured/tired Pippen in 1993, having played in the Olympic games and going for a 3rd straight title? Or how about the 1996 series and 1998 series where Pippen was injured and they also had a basket case in Rodman and injured Ron Harper? Of course not. :lol

[QUOTE][B]The public is aware of what the 73-9 Warriors did in order to beat LeBron in 2017.[/B]
[INDENT][I]The public demonized Kevin Durant for joining the Warriors, they do not criticize LeBron for losing to them.[/I][/INDENT]
[/QUOTE]

Yet he got gentlemen swept. Yet the very next season with the same team, Harden and the Rockets took the Warriors to 7 games, going up 3-2 and losing Chris Paul for the final two games. But yea, we'll excuse it despite getting nearly 30 PPG from his sidekick. :lol

[QUOTE][B]LeBron's 2018 run is considered to be one of his greatest achievements even though he lost in the finals.[/B]
[INDENT][I]The Cavs were written off after Kyrie Irving left. They were further written off after all of their new additions failed to gel and were traded. The expectation was that the Cavs were finally going to lose to the Raptors in the 2nd round. Toronto was the heavy favorite. Toronto got swept.[/QUOTE]

LeBron is the player-leader, player-coach, and player-GM. No criticisms for gutting the team mid-season. Not to mention, the series went 7 games and the Celtics didn't have Kyrie Irving. But all other factors are suddenly equal?

Do you give MJ the same benefit of the doubt for Pippen's migraine game? Of course not. :lol

[QUOTE]It's important to keep in mind that after all of these hiccups LeBron always came back to reclaim the title, and sometimes under unbelievable circumstances. That's a major factor.
[/QUOTE]

Fair point, but do you give the same benefit of the doubt to the greatest player of all-time that you conveniently hate and piss on in almost every thread? Of course not. :lol

[QUOTE]So the practical reality is that, for the public, the finals losses really do not reflect poorly on LeBron at all.[/QUOTE]

Lose miserably in 2007 putting up the worst finals performance of his career.

Lose in 2009 with HCA where in the elimination game 6 he goes 1-4 in the 4th quarter, with a team that were the favorites.

Lose in embarrassing fashion in 2011.

Lose in 2014 and have Kawhi outplay you combining both ends of the floor, his on the ball defense on LeBron, all in games 3-4-5.

Lose in 2017 by way of gentlemen sweeping despite an inferior player like James Harden taking the same team to 7 games the very next season.

Miss the playoffs in 2019 after failing to "mold" young players he said said would mold to Magic Johnson, even after returning from injury with your sidekick putting up 25 PPG.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14181942]Magically [I]no one[/I] (not MJ, Wilt, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, etc), could take the 2007 team to the finals facing teams like the Nets and Wizards. :lol

Do you give this same excuse for MJ facing teams like the '86 Celtics? Of course not. :lol



Really? So they get magically gentlemen swept the first three rounds off of a lack of chemistry, then went up 1-0 against Dallas, and conveniently lost the next 4/5 games because of a lack of chemistry? Do you give the same excuse for MJ playing with fresh talent in Pippen and Grant? With a new addition in Cartwright? Of course not:lol[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14181943]Does MJ get the same excuse playing with an injured/tired Pippen in 1993, having played in the Olympic games and going for a 3rd straight title? Or how about the 1996 series and 1998 series where Pippen was injured and they also had a basket case in Rodman and injured Ron Harper? Of course not. :lol



Yet he got gentlemen swept. Yet the very next season with the same team, Harden and the Rockets took the Warriors to 7 games, going up 3-2 and losing Chris Paul for the final two games. But yea, we'll excuse it despite getting nearly 30 PPG from his sidekick.



LeBron is the player-leader, player-coach, and player-GM. No criticisms for gutting the team mid-season. Not to mention, the series went 7 games and the Celtics didn't have Kyrie Irving. But all other factors are suddenly equal?

Do you give MJ the same benefit of the doubt for Pippen's migraine game? Of course not.



Fair point, but do you give the same benefit of the doubt to the greatest player of all-time that you conveniently hate and piss on in almost every thread? Of course not.



Lose miserably in 2007 putting up the worst finals performance of his career.

Lose in embarrassing fashion in 2011.

Lose in 2014 and have Kawhi outplay you combining both ends of the floor, his on the ball defense on LeBron, all in games 3-4-5.

Lose in 2017 by way of gentlemen sweeping despite an inferior player like James Harden taking the same team to 7 games the very next season.

Miss the playoffs in 2019 after failing to "mold" young players he said said would mold to Magic Johnson, even after returning from injury with your sidekick putting up 25 PPG.[/QUOTE]
:applause: