PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than Rudy

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14372131][url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url]











So apparently Ayton just has better teammates and coaching[/QUOTE]

Judging by the url definately not biased. You make people hate Rudy with your autistic stanning.

I wish Rudy would develop a reliable hook shot and 1 countermove. With his height and length, it could be a skyhook-lite. So that when Utah has nothing going on, they can just throw it to Rudy and he'll get a decent shot off.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;14373823]Judging by the url definately not biased. You make people hate Rudy with your autistic stanning.[/QUOTE]

He has the best insights unlike the national media who think Mitchell is the best Jazz player ever or that Rudy was the sole reason the Clippers won. Not like he didn't blame other Jazz men. Just sees that it wasn't Rudy's fault and that his teammates and coach didn't carry their weight.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14373840]He has the best insights unlike the national media who think Mitchell is the best Jazz player ever or that Rudy was the sole reason the Clippers won. Not like he didn't blame other Jazz men. Just sees that it wasn't Rudy's fault and that his teammates and coach didn't carry their weight.[/QUOTE]

Yep everybody's fault but Rudy *rolls eyes*

[QUOTE=Manny98;14373858]Yep everybody's fault but Rudy *rolls eyes*[/QUOTE]

no one said that. Everyone is trying to blame everything on Gobert and that certainly wasn't the case unless you're a troll or just not paying attention

Shaq was right about Gobert.

Shat on him for making all that money with no production. The stupid twitter world got angry.

"If you can average 10 points...."

Shaq was right.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14373880]no one said that. Everyone is trying to blame everything on Gobert and that certainly wasn't the case unless you're a troll or just not paying attention[/QUOTE]
Gobert doesn't deserve 100% of the blame your right

But he's supposed to be the teams best player and didn't play to his expected standard so he deserves a good chunk of the blame that he's rightfully getting

[QUOTE=Manny98;14373929]Gobert doesn't deserve 100% of the blame your right

But he's supposed to be the teams best player and didn't play to his expected standard so he deserves a good chunk of the blame that he's rightfully getting[/QUOTE]

[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url]

Who we blaming in Brooklyn? :confusedshrug:

Ayton looks like Shaq compared to Rudy

[QUOTE=Vino24;14374047]Ayton looks like Shaq compared to Rudy[/QUOTE]

The all NBA selections make Gobert look more like Shaq actually

Ayton is a better defender than Gobert.

You don't really want to pick on him in screens. There's a reason why some of these Suns Clips games have been old school defensive minded games. You can't pick on Ayton like you can with a lot of bigs in the NBA. I think Ayton is a true all NBA level defender. You can't bean all NBA defender let alone DPOY if teams willingly search you out on the defensive side of the ball lol

Not only Rudy Gobert.

Ayton is better than Jokic in this Playoffs too, so he is better than both and is one game away from going to the nba finals LEADING HIS TEAM with CP3 since Booker is nowhere to be seen in the past 3 games

[QUOTE=wagexslave;14368843]As a Suns fan, there's 0 chance I'd trade Ayton for Rudy, and that's before even getting into their contract situations which makes it even worse. And unlike a lot of people on here I respect Rudy's defense and impact. He's a very good player and aside from trolling Xiao and his bad contract, idk why people shit on him so much.

But I honestly believe Ayton's defense as of right now is at least almost just as good, maybe even better because he's more versatile. Ayton passes when it comes to the eye test as well, you can just see the other team struggling to deal with him usually no matter who they switch onto him. Ayton excels defensively in a lot of situations that Rudy gets exposed in. He has the speed and athleticism, and verticality to switch onto any position. Very few players have the speed to abuse him.

Ayton's ceiling as a defender is ridiculous. It just gets slept on because he was known for being a poor defender in college, and he doesn't get as much sexy "normal" stats that show up on standard box scores like blocks and steals. But when you get into advanced head to head matchup stats you see his impact. Or better yet when you just watch him play. Especially in the playoffs where he's been playing the best ball of his life consistently every game. He makes so many people miss shots when he's on them, who are usually money.

Obviously he's much better offensively than Rudy and improving fast, and he's a 22 year old who's extremely coachable with a ceiling as high as the moon... realistically he's only going to get way better on the offensive end from here on out. In this playoffs alone I've seen so much growth in his game. He's finally learning that nobody can stop him when he's aggressive, and it's a beautiful thing to see.[/QUOTE]

Ayton is better offensively. No way he’s as good of a defender as Rudy. That’s your Suns blinders on right there. Ayton has got better defensively than he was as a rookie. Maybe he will be a 2 way star in the future. But for now be real.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14374063]Ayton is a better defender than Gobert.

You don't really want to pick on him in screens. There's a reason why some of these Suns Clips games have been old school defensive minded games. You can't pick on Ayton like you can with a lot of bigs in the NBA. I think Ayton is a true all NBA level defender. You can't bean all NBA defender let alone DPOY if teams willingly search you out on the defensive side of the ball lol[/QUOTE]

Yet he didn’t receive a single vote for all defensive team. I guess you watch more basketball than the people who vote. Interesting. And no a players post season performance doesn’t just negate a seasons worth of sample size. Want to argue he’s playing better defensively in the post season than Rudy has? Fine go for it. Doesn’t mean he’s better. I don’t why fans allow the playoffs to overrate a players game. But here we are...

[QUOTE=GOBB;14374096]Yet he didn’t receive a single vote for all defensive team. I guess you watch more basketball than the people who vote. Interesting. And no a players post season performance doesn’t just negate a seasons worth of sample size. Want to argue he’s playing better defensively in the post season than Rudy has? Fine go for it. Doesn’t mean he’s better. I don’t why fans allow the playoffs to overrate a players game. But here we are...[/QUOTE]

and Mitchell is the greatest Jazz player ever and Trae is better than Curry...

With the last game ayton just made toody look like a renowned role player lol

[QUOTE=GOBB;14374095]Ayton is better offensively. No way he’s as good of a defender as Rudy. That’s your Suns blinders on right there. Ayton has got better defensively than he was as a rookie. Maybe he will be a 2 way star in the future. But for now be real.[/QUOTE]

Was a poor choice of words. When I said right now I meant specifically in the playoffs. I think in a single game scenario there's still a decent gap between them defensively. But in the playoffs Ayton's ability to switch and use lateral footwork/athleticism becomes just as valuable in a 7 game series as Gobert's superior rim protection(which isn't nearly as big of a gap as it used to be). I do think Rudy is still better defensively overall. But in the playoff series where teams game plan to exploit their weaknesses I think it's pretty damn close, and the difference in speed/athleticism becomes extremely valuable. Of course it depends on which team they're playing against though.

But anyways my point was just that I wouldn't trade Ayton for Rudy if given the chance. Even if Rudy is still superior defensively, idk if it's enough to make up in the difference of offensive potential... but more importantly the difference between age. Rudy is in his prime. What we're seeing out of Rudy is probably the best he's ever gonna play. Ayton is 22 and still developing game after game. His ceiling on offense and defense are both extremely high, and he's shown to be extremely coachable. I could definitely see him reaching a tier above Rudy in the coming years in terms of the total package.

[QUOTE=wagexslave;14374220]Was a poor choice of words. When I said right now I meant specifically in the playoffs. I think in a single game scenario there's still a decent gap between them defensively. But in the playoffs Ayton's ability to switch and use lateral footwork/athleticism becomes just as valuable in a 7 game series as Gobert's superior rim protection(which isn't nearly as big of a gap as it used to be). I do think Rudy is still better defensively overall. But in the playoff series where teams game plan to exploit their weaknesses I think it's pretty damn close, and the difference in speed/athleticism becomes extremely valuable. Of course it depends on which team they're playing against though.

But anyways my point was just that I wouldn't trade Ayton for Rudy if given the chance. Even if Rudy is still superior defensively, idk if it's enough to make up in the difference of offensive potential... but more importantly the difference between age. Rudy is in his prime. What we're seeing out of Rudy is probably the best he's ever gonna play. Ayton is 22 and still developing game after game. His ceiling on offense and defense are both extremely high, and he's shown to be extremely coachable. I could definitely see him reaching a tier above Rudy in the coming years in terms of the total package.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I like Aytons upside. Sky’s the limit for him. Home run picks by the Suns with Booker/Ayton duo. Granted Ayton was the #1 pick. For a #1 to look like a #1 is refreshing.

[QUOTE=wagexslave;14374220]Was a poor choice of words. When I said right now I meant specifically in the playoffs. I think in a single game scenario there's still a decent gap between them defensively. But in the playoffs Ayton's ability to switch and use lateral footwork/athleticism becomes just as valuable in a 7 game series as Gobert's superior rim protection(which isn't nearly as big of a gap as it used to be). I do think Rudy is still better defensively overall. But in the playoff series where teams game plan to exploit their weaknesses I think it's pretty damn close, and the difference in speed/athleticism becomes extremely valuable. Of course it depends on which team they're playing against though.

But anyways my point was just that I wouldn't trade Ayton for Rudy if given the chance. Even if Rudy is still superior defensively, idk if it's enough to make up in the difference of offensive potential... but more importantly the difference between age. Rudy is in his prime. What we're seeing out of Rudy is probably the best he's ever gonna play. Ayton is 22 and still developing game after game. His ceiling on offense and defense are both extremely high, and he's shown to be extremely coachable. I could definitely see him reaching a tier above Rudy in the coming years in terms of the total package.[/QUOTE]

Rudy had his best year so I'd hardly say he's peaked. Ayton was the top pick in the draft he should be better. Gobert was a project. You put Gobert on the Suns and they are still winning. Ayton on the Jazz and the Jazz are in the lottery though

How can you say Gobert on the Sun's and they're still winning?

The Clippers had tremdous success against Gobert, why would that all of a sudden change? When he gets isolated against perimeter players, that's going to translate regardless of who he plays with. Clippers would pick on him with the Sun's just as they did when he plays with the Jazz. The point is he can't hide which is a ****ed thing to say about a DPOY. It's a joke really.

[QUOTE=GOBB;14374096]Yet he didn’t receive a single vote for all defensive team. I guess you watch more basketball than the people who vote. Interesting. And no a players post season performance doesn’t just negate a seasons worth of sample size. Want to argue he’s playing better defensively in the post season than Rudy has? Fine go for it. Doesn’t mean he’s better. I don’t why fans allow the playoffs to overrate a players game. But here we are...[/QUOTE]

These same people voted Kobe all defense when he was at best an average defender. I don't base my opinion on what other people think. You shouldn't either.

I don't value regular season play. It's a long season, teams take nights off, there are a lot of crap teams out there. It's all about the playoffs for me. Jordan isn't Jordan because of what he did in the regular season. If you continue to play below expectations in the playoffs as a player you are ultimately getting exposed for your weaknesses that otherwise don't get picked on or highlighted in the regular season.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14374350]How can you say Gobert on the Sun's and they're still winning?

The Clippers had tremdous success against Gobert, why would that all of a sudden change? When he gets isolated against perimeter players, that's going to translate regardless of who he plays with. Clippers would pick on him with the Sun's just as they did when he plays with the Jazz. The point is he can't hide which is a ****ed thing to say about a DPOY. It's a joke really.[/QUOTE]


[URL="https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/"]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-re...rsus-clippers/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Carbine;14374356]These same people voted Kobe all defense when he was at best an average defender. I don't base my opinion on what other people think. You shouldn't either.

I don't value regular season play. It's a long season, teams take nights off, there are a lot of crap teams out there. It's all about the playoffs for me. Jordan isn't Jordan because of what he did in the regular season. If you continue to play below expectations in the playoffs as a player you are ultimately getting exposed for your weaknesses that otherwise don't get picked on or highlighted in the regular season.[/QUOTE]

You have to get to the playoffs first.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14374356]These same people voted Kobe all defense when he was at best an average defender. I don't base my opinion on what other people think. You shouldn't either.

I don't value regular season play. It's a long season, teams take nights off, there are a lot of crap teams out there. It's all about the playoffs for me. Jordan isn't Jordan because of what he did in the regular season. If you continue to play below expectations in the playoffs as a player you are ultimately getting exposed for your weaknesses that otherwise don't get picked on or highlighted in the regular season.[/QUOTE]

Shut the hell up. You have absolutely no valid proof ayton is a better defender because of a series where Rudy was taken advantage of on the perimeter. You fans kill me with this nonsense. Trae > Curry. Let’s start this one up as well since playoff matters.

MJ regular season was dominant. I guess his all nba selections, mvp, scoring titles, scoring avg, career points mean little vs his 6 rings. Gotcha.

[QUOTE=GOBB;14374445]Shut the hell up. You have absolutely no valid proof ayton is a better defender because of a series where Rudy was taken advantage of on the perimeter. You fans kill me with this nonsense. Trae > Curry. Let’s start this one up as well since playoff matters.

MJ regular season was dominant. I guess his all nba selections, mvp, scoring titles, scoring avg, career points mean little vs his 6 rings. Gotcha.[/QUOTE]

Mitchell > Malone/Stockton/Maravich/Dantley/Gobert/Deron Williams! :roll:

Ayton is better now and will only continue to be better. Gobert is a stiff whos been exposed. Who cares about individual awards in a team sport? Ayton is a team player.

When it’s all said and done the only thing Gobert is gonna be remembered for is that Covid BS.

[QUOTE=Norcaliblunt;14374526]Ayton is better now and will only continue to be better. Gobert is a stiff whos been exposed. Who cares about individual awards in a team sport? Ayton is a team player.

When it’s all said and done the only thing Gobert is gonna be remembered for is that Covid BS.[/QUOTE]

The leader in screen assists, 3 time DPOY, 5 time all defense, 5th all time rebound % isn't a team player? Pretty sure he'll be remembered. The Trump virus BS is already a small footnote

[QUOTE=GOBB;14374445]Shut the hell up. You have absolutely no valid proof ayton is a better defender because of a series where Rudy was taken advantage of on the perimeter. You fans kill me with this nonsense. Trae > Curry. Let’s start this one up as well since playoff matters.

MJ regular season was dominant. I guess his all nba selections, mvp, scoring titles, scoring avg, career points mean little vs his 6 rings. Gotcha.[/QUOTE]

It's sports, what proof do I need. This isn't the justice system. It's my opinion based on what I see.

MJ regular season is dominant, no question about it. But he became a better player in the playoffs.

Defense isn't or shouldn't be one of those things that come and go. For Gobert, he has been grilled too many times in the last few post seasons that you have to call it for what it is.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14374559]It's sports, what proof do I need. This isn't the justice system. It's my opinion based on what I see.

MJ regular season is dominant, no question about it. But he became a better player in the playoffs.

Defense isn't or shouldn't be one of those things that come and go. For Gobert, he has been grilled too many times in the last few post seasons that you have to call it for what it is.[/QUOTE]

Hilarious because any other time you’re sitting there with proof out the ass. Stats, quotes etc

Now it’s “my opinion”. Ignore the sample size of Ayton in 3 seasons as a defender. Solely focus on the post season (his first). Got it. So logical. If you want to call out Rudy on his post season defense? By all means rock out. What we not gonna do is continue to be prisoners in the f*cking moment saying outlandish shit like Ayton is a better defender.

[QUOTE=GOBB;14374617]Hilarious because any other time you’re sitting there with proof out the ass. Stats, quotes etc

Now it’s “my opinion”. Ignore the sample size of Ayton in 3 seasons as a defender. Solely focus on the post season (his first). Got it. So logical. If you want to call out Rudy on his post season defense? By all means rock out. What we not gonna do is continue to be prisoners in the f*cking moment saying outlandish shit like Ayton is a better defender.[/QUOTE]

The thing is if you actually watch the games it’s not that outlandish. Ayton doesn’t get exposed on the perimeter like Gobert. He can switch and is effective. Which can make him more valuable and yes maybe better. Simple as that.

You’re the one living in the past. The future is now and now is Ayton.

[QUOTE=Norcaliblunt;14374653]The thing is if you actually watch the games it’s not that outlandish. Ayton doesn’t get exposed on the perimeter like Gobert. He can switch and is effective. Which can make him more valuable and yes maybe better. Simple as that.

You’re the one living in the past. The future is now and now is Ayton.[/QUOTE]

If you watched the games you'd see that Ayton has a better team around him and a better coach

[QUOTE=Norcaliblunt;14374653]The thing is if you actually watch the games it’s not that outlandish. Ayton doesn’t get exposed on the perimeter like Gobert. He can switch and is effective. Which can make him more valuable and yes maybe better. Simple as that.

You’re the one living in the past. The future is now and now is Ayton.[/QUOTE]

You and other idiots like carbine have trouble comprehending playing better and being better are not one in the same. You can not go an entire regular season without ANYONE recognizing you’re a good defender. Then come playoffs become a better defender than guys who were recognized (with stats to back them up) for being better defenders. Doesn’t work that way. People who dismiss regular season and start their whole evaluation and assessing process in the post season are flawed as hell.

This is a classic case of a pile on event. I’m not the biggest fan of Rudy Gobert but I’m not going to say nonsense just because it’s the trendy thing to do. Which is saying Ayton is a better defender. Want to say he’s played better defense? Again rock out. But you expose your bball knowledge by believing the crap you type. Everyone wants to be “that guy”. Everyone wants to appear smarter than the other. Cut it out.

“Look at me I don’t value no one else’s opinions but my own. I stand on my own two. I conclude what I see and go from there. I don’t allow outside influences to change how I feel about my opinion. I’m my own man”.

But you spend countless time out of your life arguing who is a better player in whatever sport based on accolades picked by other people’s opinions. Weirdos.

I don't think I've used stats to debate who was a better player in 5 years. Miss me with that narrative GoBB.

What happened to all that Ayton love?

Smoke117 was the voice of reason in this thread :oldlol:

Like many guys ayton should have been better than gobert. Few jave been though. Just another bum while rudy finishes up a hof career :cheers:

ayton on the bucks work 10 boards a game vs lopez 4 is riduclous

Idiot takes in this thread sheesh

[QUOTE=Snow;15018911]What happened to all that Ayton love?

Smoke117 was the voice of reason in this thread :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

RIP Smoke

Angry drunk and most likely dead because he did say he was in the hospital and almost died because of his drinking, but dude knew his ball. I remember agreeing with him on a lot of takes.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15019035]RIP Smoke

Angry drunk and most likely dead because he did say he was in the hospital and almost died because of his drinking, but dude knew his ball. I remember agreeing with him on a lot of takes.[/QUOTE]
Covid probably.