is lebron a GREAT scorer?

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665345]He has 2 moves, the three (which he's not very good at for how important it is to todays game) and the stiff-arm drive to the basket. He cannot dribble and pull up to hit the jumper like KD can. He doesn't have the post up game up MJ or Kobe, and has almost no mid-range game to speak of.[/QUOTE]
LeBron is one of the best post players in the league, you being mad about it doesn’t change that. [url]https://theathletic.com/3131846/2022/02/21/lebron-james-joel-embiid-and-the-nbas-best-post-scorers-plus-3-others-who-surprisingly-struggle-down-low/?amp=1[/url]

Also Giannis has significantly less skill than LeBron and he scores at will. By your retarded logic he’s not a great scorer either

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665345]He has 2 moves, the three (which he's not very good at for how important it is to todays game) and the stiff-arm drive to the basket. He cannot dribble and pull up to hit the jumper like KD can. He doesn't have the post up game up MJ or Kobe, and has almost no mid-range game to speak of.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about right now or his whole career?

Lebron has 1 scoring title, I'm actually laughing not mad.

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665349]Lebron has 1 scoring title, I'm actually laughing not mad.[/QUOTE]
Larry Bird, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Julius Erving, Jerry West, Dirk Nowitzki, Charles Barkley, Elgin Baylor, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Dwyane Wade , David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Dominique Wilkins, and Vince Carter all won 1 scoring title at most. Many of them won zero. Are you seriously going to tell me none of them were great scorers?

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665349]Lebron has 1 scoring title, I'm actually laughing not mad.[/QUOTE]

There have been I think 33 guys who have ever picked up a basketball that have won an NBA scoring title.

Lebron only has 1 scoring title?

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/S2G-QZk-Vz0AAAAM/michael-jordan-laughing.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14665355]There have been I think 33 guys who have ever picked up a basketball that have won an NBA scoring title.[/QUOTE]
Only 18 of them were any good at scoring though since 15 of them were so horrible they couldn’t win more than once. Let’s not even get into scrub scorers like Larry Bird, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley and Dirk Nowitzki who never won a scoring title at all.

RogueBorg has no response but to troll because he realizes how stupid what he said was.

Steph has twice as many scoring titles as Lebron

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/ogwG9rsPa74AAAAC/you-mad-mad.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=RRR3;14665359]RogueBorg has no response but to troll [/QUOTE]

A dim light gets brighter

Dirk wasn’t a great scorer-RogueIdiot

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665361]A dim light gets brighter[/QUOTE]
So you admit you have nothing to add to serious discussions about basketball? Interesting.

RogueBorg getting exposed. Lol

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665364]RogueBorg getting exposed. Lol[/QUOTE]

Hardly, I'm laughing at you triggered idiots

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665365]Hardly, I'm laughing at you triggered idiots[/QUOTE]

I'm laughing at you for not saying anything insightful.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665367]I'm laughing at you for not saying anything insightful.[/QUOTE]

Too easy

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665364]RogueBorg getting exposed. Lol[/QUOTE]
He pulled the classic idiot move of “I was just trolling bro” after getting exposed for being low IQ

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665360]Steph has twice as many scoring titles as Lebron

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/ogwG9rsPa74AAAAC/you-mad-mad.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

You trying so hard at this is hysterical :lol

You want it SO BAD it just oozes out of you.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14665373]He pulled the classic idiot move of “I was just trolling bro” after getting exposed for being low IQ[/QUOTE]

Just answer the question, why does Lebron only have 1 scoring title?

Today I learned Bird, Hakeem, Dirk, Barkley & Giannis were not great scorers :applause:

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;14665379]Just answer the question, why does Lebron only have 1 scoring title?[/QUOTE]
Because he doesn’t try to win scoring titles. He’s literally missed out on 2 scoring titles (2010 and last year) by sitting out when he could have gone for it at the end of the season.

he aight.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14665388]Because he doesn’t try to win scoring titles. He’s literally missed out on 2 scoring titles (2010 and last year) by sitting out when he could have gone for it at the end of the season.[/QUOTE]

So you're also saying he's a quitter? :lol

But seriously, he's a great scorer, just not the greatest, that belongs to MJ, and pretty comfortably too.

[QUOTE=TheMan;14665409]So you're also saying he's a quitter? :lol

But seriously, he's a great scorer, just not the greatest, that belongs to MJ, and pretty comfortably too.[/QUOTE]
If he went for it you’d scream stat padding :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=TheGoatest;14664771][IMG]https://images4.imagebam.com/c7/e8/8e/MEE4DNN_o.png[/IMG]

Does Elon Musk have A LOT of money?

[IMG]https://www.thesouthafrican.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Rich-list-28-Sept.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Ouch :lol Hittem with that 1st post rat poison post.

R.I.P. to OP.

.
[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]


A player can't be a great scorer if they needed great scoring help..... for the vast majority of their titles as 1st option... :confusedshrug:

So guys like Shaq, Lebron, Magic and others weren't really great scorers despite their physical dominance or oversized for their position.. At carry-job volumes, their plodding ball-dominance lacked sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams (can't carry the scoring load and beat top teams), so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams (they can carry the scoring load and beat top teams) and therefore win with secondary-producing sidekicks like Wiggins or Pippen.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666058].
[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]


A player can't be a great scorer if they needed great scoring help..... for the vast majority of their titles as 1st option... :confusedshrug:

So guys like Shaq, Lebron, Magic and others weren't really great scorers despite their physical dominance or oversized for their position.. At carry-job volumes, their plodding ball-dominance lacked sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams (can't carry the scoring load and beat top teams), so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams (they can carry the scoring load and beat top teams) and therefore win with secondary-producing sidekicks like Wiggins or Pippen.[/QUOTE]

Thread cliffs.

According to OP's logic, Durant isn't a great scorer. Despite 3bal sucking him off for years until he lost to Giannis in 2021.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14666060]Thread cliffs.

According to OP's logic, Durant isn't a great scorer. Despite 3bal sucking him off for years until he lost to Giannis in 2021.[/QUOTE]


Durant needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention and therefore isn't a truly great scorer that defeated maximum defensive attention like MJ, Kobe, Curry or Bird (carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run).

So there's levels to this shit.. MJ, Kobe, Curry, and Bird are truly great scorers, while Durant and Iverson are great scorers, and Lebron isn't a great scorer (no pure scoring ability or elite jumpshooting skill.. no go-to moves.. weak clutch... doesn't command doubles)

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666062]Durant needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention and therefore isn't a truly great scorer that defeated maximum defensive attention like MJ, Kobe, Curry or Bird (carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run).

[B]So there's levels to this shit.[/B]. MJ, Kobe, Curry, and Bird are truly great scorers, while Durant and Iverson are great scorers, and Lebron isn't a great scorer (no pure scoring ability or elite jumpshooting skill.. no go-to moves.. weak clutch... doesn't command doubles)[/QUOTE]

If you choose to create them :lol

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666062]Durant needs equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention and therefore isn't a truly great scorer that defeated maximum defensive attention like MJ, Kobe, Curry or Bird (carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run).

So there's levels to this shit.. MJ, Kobe, Curry, and Bird are truly great scorers, while Durant and Iverson are great scorers, and Lebron isn't a great scorer (no pure scoring ability or elite jumpshooting skill.. no go-to moves.. weak clutch... doesn't command doubles)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666058].
[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]


A player can't be a great scorer if they needed great scoring help..... for the vast majority of their titles as 1st option... :confusedshrug:

So guys like Shaq, Lebron, Magic and others weren't really great scorers despite their physical dominance or oversized for their position.. At carry-job volumes, their plodding ball-dominance lacked sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams (can't carry the scoring load and beat top teams), so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams (they can carry the scoring load and beat top teams) and therefore win with secondary-producing sidekicks like Wiggins or Pippen.[/QUOTE]

Defensive attention is your reasoning for truely great scorers, but Shaq who had 30ppg series against triple teams in the west isn't a great scorer. What else has Shaq faced than maximum defensive attention as you'd call it?

That's the most retarded stance I've ever read from you and that says quite alot.

[QUOTE=Overdrive;14666072]Defensive attention is your reasoning for truely great scorers, but Shaq who had 30ppg series against triple teams in the west isn't a great scorer. What else has Shaq faced than maximum defensive attention as you'd call it?

That's the most retarded stance I've ever read from you and that says quite alot.[/QUOTE]
But Shaq can't shoot jumpers! Though neither can Giannis and he's in OP's top 10 :lol

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14666083]But Shaq can't shoot jumpers! Though neither can Giannis and he's in OP's top 10 :lol[/QUOTE]


Since Shaq needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, he never defeated maximum defensive attention except once in his entire career (2000 Finals)..

So he isn't a truly great scorer and just had a one-off - and he actually didn't carry the scoring load against the Blazers (the "real" Finals), while Kobe led the NBA in clutch scoring for those playoffs, including his record-setting Finals (8.0 ppg clutch points)

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666316]Since Shaq needed equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, he never defeated maximum defensive attention except once in his entire career (2000 Finals)..

So he isn't a truly great scorer and just had a one-off - and he actually didn't carry the scoring load against the Blazers (the "real" Finals), while Kobe led the NBA in clutch scoring for those playoffs, including his record-setting Finals (8.0 ppg clutch points)[/QUOTE]

[video=youtube;x5PDgv5y-S0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5PDgv5y-S0[/video]

Referring to a finals series in which Kobe put up 15.6 PPG on 41.6 TS% as “record setting” :roll:

The great flaw in this (even though I know you aren't attempting to make a real argument) is that we are faulting someone as a scorer because they have a great teammate.

Like..how does Kobe being a great scorer mean that Shaq isn't? Just cause they were on the same team? That doesn't make any sense.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14666324]The great flaw in this (even though I know you aren't attempting to make a real argument) is that we are faulting someone as a scorer because they have a great teammate.

Like..how does Kobe being a great scorer mean that Shaq isn't? Just cause they were on the same team? That doesn't make any sense.[/QUOTE]


Players that can carry the scoring load need less help... it isn't complicated but you're pretending it is.

Players that can carry the scoring load allow GM's to build a team of cheap defenders instead of needing to find expensive, star scoring help.

When Lebron had secondary scorers at sidekick like Ingram, Jamison, Mo or Hughes - he got destroyed - it wasn't nearly enough help because it required Lebron to carry the scoring load, and he's too ball-dominant to carry the scoring load over top teams.

At carry-job volumes, plodding ball-dominators like Lebron, Shaq or Magic lack sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams, so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams and therefore win with secondary-producers like Wiggins or Pippen.

[I][U][SIZE=5]Thread Cliffs:[/SIZE][/U][/I] is LeBron is good shooter? Is water wet?

[QUOTE=AirBonner;14666470][I][U][SIZE=5]Thread Cliffs:[/SIZE][/U][/I] is LeBron is good shooter? Is water wet?[/QUOTE]


He literally avoids contested jumpers and cannot make them

So even his efficiency is manufactured by a high proportion of dribble-heavy rim attacks that yield inferior brand of ball and chemistry (inferior teams) than expert jumpshooting, which fosters better chemistry and brand of ball, aka ball movement..

Ultimately, since Lebron can't beat top teams by carrying the scoring load (too ball-dominant), he needs more scoring help - his weak brand of ball needs more help..

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666458]Players that can carry the scoring load need less help... it isn't complicated but you're pretending it is.

Players that can carry the scoring load allow GM's to build a team of cheap defenders instead of needing to find expensive, star scoring help.

When Lebron had secondary scorers at sidekick like Ingram, Jamison, Mo or Hughes - he got destroyed - it wasn't nearly enough help because it required Lebron to carry the scoring load, and he's too ball-dominant to carry the scoring load over top teams.

At carry-job volumes, plodding ball-dominators like Lebron, Shaq or Magic lack sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams, so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams and therefore win with secondary-producers like Wiggins or Pippen.[/QUOTE]

My point, which of course you missed or purposely ignored, is about the difference between someone being in the situation to do something and another not being in that situation but being able to do it if they were.

Shaq carried that load you discuss in 2000, proving he could do it. Did Kobe getting way better the next year then mean that Shaq just couldn’t do it anymore?

Did Parker getting little better at scoring make Duncan worse at it?

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666458]Players that can carry the scoring load need less help... it isn't complicated but you're pretending it is.

Players that can carry the scoring load allow GM's to build a team of cheap defenders instead of needing to find expensive, star scoring help.

When Lebron had secondary scorers at sidekick like Ingram, Jamison, Mo or Hughes - he got destroyed - it wasn't nearly enough help because it required Lebron to carry the scoring load, and he's too ball-dominant to carry the scoring load over top teams.

At carry-job volumes, plodding ball-dominators like Lebron, Shaq or Magic lack sufficient brand of ball to beat top teams, so they needed all-time scoring help like Kareem, Kobe and Wade.

Otoh, expert jumpshooters like Curry, MJ or Kobe can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat top teams and therefore win with secondary-producers like Wiggins or Pippen.[/QUOTE]

Your fallacy is that you believe that there's only one way to win titles and that's with a guy "caring the scoring load" while we've seen championship teams with 20ppg topscorers.

You're building your whole argument around something as circumstancial as winning championships. If the 80s Celtics played in the 90s and took 3 championship off of the Bulls would Jordan's brand of basketball suddenly be worse? Would it make him a worse basketball player without playing any different?

Why do you penalize Shaq and Lebron for something they have no say in? If the Warriors never existed Lebron probably has 7 championships. Would that make his brand of ball suddenly better?

Your favourite point is defensive attention. Yet Shaq faced more attention during the three peat years than Jordan ever faced and you're saying he had a player facing equal attention. Just no. Kobe was doubled less and barely had a third man on him on drives. Opponents clearly game planned against Shaq and not as much Kobe.