Come on, uncle. Now isn't the time for such nonsense. :(
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Come on, uncle. Now isn't the time for such nonsense. :(
[QUOTE=Axe;14705253]Come on, uncle. Now isn't the time for such nonsense. :([/QUOTE]
That's never stopped you before :oldlol:
He's kind of overrated actually. Love his game from time to time but he did get outplayed by CJ Mccollum in a game 7 at home when Dame played like absolute dogshit. Hard to let that one go.
[QUOTE=BigShotBob;14705257]He's kind of overrated actually. Love his game from time to time but he did get outplayed by CJ Mccollum in a game 7 at home when Dame played like absolute dogshit. Hard to let that one go.[/QUOTE]
What kinda bullshit argument is this :lol Using a literal ONE game sample size, from two years before he hit his peak? What an incredibly dumb take.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14705261]What kinda bullshit argument is this :lol Using a literal ONE game sample size, from two years before he hit his peak? What an incredibly dumb take.[/QUOTE]
Posts like his are common for some reason. Just proves my point even more. Was someone like Barkley (top 20 player of all time in a lot of people's minds) ever as good as Jokic has been these last 2-3 years? I say no.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14705284]Posts like his are common for some reason. Just proves my point even more. Was someone like Barkley (top 20 player of all time in a lot of people's minds) ever as good as Jokic has been these last 2-3 years? I say no.[/QUOTE]
Only goes to show how much the league has vastly improved since the jurassic 90s days. What's more, it's an international player being significant like this. Something a bit rare in the past eras.
Make no mistake Barkley was a beast. He actually led the league in TS four straight years while averaging 25+ ppg. He was also one of the league leaders in rebounds.
He was a good playmaker too but not on Jokic level. He was also a freak athlete, nasty on the break and a bully inside
[QUOTE=tontoz;14705316][B]Make no mistake Barkley was a beast.[/B] He actually led the league in TS four straight years while averaging 25+ ppg. He was also one of the league leaders in rebounds.
He was a good playmaker too but not on Jokic level. He was also a freak athlete, nasty on the break and a bully inside[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the little known fact, none of us knew this.
Best passer ever
Best offensive big man ever
Making a case for his 3rd straight MVP (between him and KD right now)
Although I'd like to see him do more in the postseason
[QUOTE=RRR3;14705321]Thanks for the little known fact, none of us knew this.[/QUOTE]
Seething
[QUOTE=tontoz;14705332]Seething[/QUOTE]
:roll:
41/15/15
Honestly guys like Garnett and Barkley can't touch the Joker. This guy is reaching for the best big men of all time.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14707568]41/15/15
Honestly guys like Garnett and Barkley can't touch the Joker. This guy is reaching for the best big men of all time.[/QUOTE]
Yes he is heading for GOAT Center Status. Last 3 seasons, including playoffs: 190 games: 26.8/12.1/8.1 on .576 shooting. +7.4 relative true shooting. Insane volume with insane efficiency. Best passing center ever, and it's not even remotely close.
Last three seasons, he's been dominating the NBA like no other Center since Wilt Chamberlain.
Third 41/15/15 game in NBA History. Only Harden and Oscar did that.
The 40/27/10 game? Hasn't been done since Wilt himself, 3/18/68.
last night Richard Jefferson stated that with Jokic Denver is a top team in the west.
When he sits on the bench Denver is rated like 30th in offense.:banghead:
[QUOTE=csh19792001;14707591]Yes he is heading for GOAT Center Status. Last 3 seasons, including playoffs: 190 games: 26.8/12.1/8.1 on .576 shooting. +7.4 relative true shooting. Insane volume with insane efficiency. Best passing center ever, and it's not even remotely close.
Last three seasons, he's been dominating the NBA like no other Center since Wilt Chamberlain.
Third 41/15/15 game in NBA History. Only Harden and Oscar did that.
The 40/27/10 game? Hasn't been done since Wilt himself, 3/18/68.[/QUOTE]
I posted similar stats earlier in this thread. Jokic is straight up the best offensive player in the league and by a decent margin.
[QUOTE=Jasper;14707600]last night Richard Jefferson stated that with Jokic Denver is a top team in the west.
When he sits on the bench Denver is rated like 30th in offense.:banghead:[/QUOTE]
:O
Bump
Yep...still underrated.
Jokic up to 25/12/10 on 63/40/82 splits...70.3 TS% :roll:
Best all around offensive player in the league.
He is likely about to become a three time mvp. This topic is like saying Warren Buffet is poor.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14741696]He is likely about to become a three time mvp. This topic is like saying Warren Buffet is poor.[/QUOTE]
The majority of the NBA fanbase do not think Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. He is constantly disrespected when I see conversations about him on various platforms/media.
If he was a black American and athletic, he'd be getting GOAT talks.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14741697]The majority of the NBA fanbase do not think Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. He is constantly disrespected when I see conversations about him on various platforms/media.
[B]If he was a black American and athletic, he'd be getting GOAT talks.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah if Towns was doing the exact same thing Joker is doing, he'd be a far more respected and popular athlete. Obviously the MVP voters know they can't not give him MVP, but the MVPs themselves build contempt from the general public because they think winning rings is the be all end all while ignoring context. He'd get far less disrespect tho if he was black. Perkins certainly wouldn't be crying on air about racism.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14741699]Yeah if Towns was doing the exact same thing Joker is doing, he'd be a far more respected and popular athlete. Obviously the MVP voters know they can't not give him MVP, but the MVPs themselves build contempt from the general public because they think winning rings is the be all end all while ignoring context. He'd get far less disrespect tho if he was black. Perkins certainly wouldn't be crying on air about racism.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Jokic is basically the complete opposite of mainstream NBA fandom/culture. He won't get fans from the basic fanbase unless he wins a ring. Even then, he won't receive the normal hype. Shit the average NBA fan probably thinks Derek Rose on the Bulls was better than Jokic ever was.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14741697]The majority of the NBA fanbase do not think Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. He is constantly disrespected when I see conversations about him on various platforms/media.
If he was a black American and athletic, he'd be getting GOAT talks.[/QUOTE]
Is Kevin Durant a 3 time mvp? No?
Oh wait only guy like that in the league today is James. The idea that a guy about to get the MVP award for a third year in a row is somehow the victim of discrimination... you realize you're a ****ing idiot, right?
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14741697]The majority of the NBA fanbase do not think Jokic is a top 5 player in the league. He is constantly disrespected when I see conversations about him on various platforms/media.
If he was a black American and athletic, he'd be getting GOAT talks.[/QUOTE]
Yes, poor white people get no respect :roll: :facepalm
It’s cause he’s not flashy. Luka is white and clearly worse but gets more respect for being flashy.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14741707][B]Yes, poor white people get no respect[/B] :roll: :facepalm
It’s cause he’s not flashy. Luka is white and clearly worse but gets more respect for being flashy.[/QUOTE]
We need look no further than you for proof.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14741705]Is Kevin Durant a 3 time mvp? No?
Oh wait only guy like that in the league today is James. The idea that a guy about to get the MVP award for a third year in a row is somehow the victim of discrimination... you realize you're a ****ing idiot, right?[/QUOTE]
Why are struggling with what I am saying? Did I ever say the MVP VOTERS are underrating Jokic? No I did not.
I am saying the NBA fandom/masses are underrating Jokic for a few on-court and off-court reasons.
If fans were voting then Jokic wouldn't come close to MVP.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14741728]Why are struggling with what I am saying? Did I ever say the MVP VOTERS are underrating Jokic? No I did not.
I am saying the NBA fandom/masses are underrating Jokic for a few on-court and off-court reasons.
If fans were voting then Jokic wouldn't come close to MVP.[/QUOTE]
If fans voted Kobe would have 5 MVP’s, while Iverson might have 2-3.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14741728]Why are struggling with what I am saying? Did I ever say the MVP VOTERS are underrating Jokic? No I did not.
I am saying the NBA fandom/masses are underrating Jokic for a few on-court and off-court reasons.
If fans were voting then Jokic wouldn't come close to MVP.[/QUOTE]
No one is failing to understand you. You are claiming without any evidence whatsoever that NBA fans-- who are mainly white-- are discriminating against Jokic. Because he is white. You are an idiot.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14741740]No one is failing to understand you. You are claiming without any evidence whatsoever that NBA fans-- who are mainly white-- are discriminating against Jokic. Because he is white. You are an idiot.[/QUOTE]
:lol
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14741740]No one is failing to understand you. You are claiming without any evidence whatsoever that NBA fans-- who are mainly white-- are discriminating against Jokic. Because he is white. You are an idiot.[/QUOTE]
You are being obtuse. I am not going to find and post everything I read about Jokic from social media sites. Anyone who reads basketball should be seeing the same general trend of underrating and disrespecting Jokic.
Also I am not claiming Jokic is being discriminated because he is white...it's because he is not American, secondarily not a black American, and third he is unathletic. Jokic also doesn't fit the NBA culture AT ALL. This is why he is underrated (maybe I should say underappreciated?). Someone like Giannis would be way more hyped if he was an American as well...but a ton of people still refer to him as "run and dunk".
Seriously, you and RRR3 look dumb trying to paint me as some right-wing white person trying to claim generic "racism". What I'm claiming is much more nuanced and honestly factual.
Here's the thing... Some superstar level players AREN'T going to be one of the faces of the league marketed to the masses. You gotta have a certain IT FACTOR for that. In today's league, its guys like Bron, Steph, Giannis, KD, Luka, etc. Joker as great as he is will get slept on by the casual fanbase. EVEN THOUGH he's about to likely win a 3rd MVP. And is known as the best offensive center ever when u combine passing and scoring. Plus he's the king of triple doubles among centers.
The media overall gives him his props. So he catches NO BS NARRATIVES from the media. He's just not a SUPERSTAR the league will lean on to market the game. He's not the COMBO of superstar on the court AND ROCK STAR the league relies on to market to casuals. Duncan has similar issues back in the day. BUT his championship success superceded it. And he is the GOAT PF. So since he was in the Finals all the time (the time when casuals REALLY LOCK INTO THE LEAGUE), he became a household name to them even. And the league HAD TO COME AROUND because the Spurs were a dynasty.
BUT if you don't have those things going for you PLUS don't play in a huge media market, superstars like a Jokic will be UNDER THE RADAR to the casual fanbase. EVEN THOUGH he's a top 6 caliber center ever peak-prime wise. And when you look at the top 10 centers GOAT wise, literally ALL OF THEM were one of the faces of the league. I'm talking Cap, Wilt, Russ, Shaq, Hakeem, David, and Ewing for example. GOAT wise, Joker is gonna be on that level. But IT FACTOR wise, he's not somebody the league is gonna market to casuals.
If he pulls a Duncan and wins SO MUCH that it supercedes the lack of IT FACTOR, AMONG CASUALS Joker will get his just due. BUT if you know the game, you know Joker is an all time great! And THAT's MORE IMPORTANT! If you want superstars who get DENIED their rightful place in history throughout the years, look at guys like Nique, McAdoo, English, Dantley, etc. All of them got labeled unfairly by the media OR their career took an unusual path at some point.
Or underrated guys who were never All Stars like a Rod Strickland, Byron Scott, etc. Joker DOESN'T have those issues! When it comes to the all time great PF's, Bob P's name NEVER comes up anymore. YET his peers like West, Oscar, Baylor, Wilt, and Russell STILL get mentioned to this day. Bob was the GOAT PF UNTIL the Mailman and Barkley got rolling. That's A LONG ASS TIME that he was the king of his position! Dr. J gets his props for being WAY AHEAD of his time being a freak athletic scoring machine that played about the rim. YET David Thompson's name doesn't get brought up enough. He was THE GUY to bring freak athletic ability to the backcourt. Just like Doc, he was WAY AHEAD OF HIS TIME! Their rivalry was like the MJ-Nique rivalry of that time period!
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14741743]You are being obtuse. I am not going to find and post everything I read about Jokic from social media sites. Anyone who reads basketball should be seeing the same general trend of underrating and disrespecting Jokic.
Also I am not claiming Jokic is being discriminated because he is white...it's because he is not American, secondarily not a black American, and third he is unathletic. Jokic also doesn't fit the NBA culture AT ALL. This is why he is underrated (maybe I should say underappreciated?). Someone like Giannis would be way more hyped if he was an American as well...but a ton of people still refer to him as "run and dunk".
Seriously, you and RRR3 look dumb trying to paint me as some right-wing white person trying to claim generic "racism". What I'm claiming is much more nuanced and honestly factual.[/QUOTE]
You are saying that a soon to be 3peat mvp is underrated because white people don't appreciate a white person.
You are an idiot.
For those saying Jokic is getting discriminated against because he's European that's BS!!! Because Luka is one of the faces of the league. And has the IT FACTOR to draw in casual fans. So the league markets that! Once again, the league LEANS ON a group of 6-8 guys to be the faces of the league. If a player plays in a major media market, that's even better. Hell even though Kawhi has won a couple of rings, he's still NOT A DRAW truly for the casual fanbase. You can look at ANY SPORT and the same applies!
Dude is already being touted as a potential top 5 center of all time and you're saying he's [I]underrated[/I]?!
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14741821]You are saying that a soon to be 3peat mvp is underrated because white people don't appreciate a white person.
You are an idiot.[/QUOTE]
You struggle with reading comprehension. Let me post the same thing again - it's because he is [B]not American[/B], secondarily [B]not a black American[/B], and third he is [B]unathletic[/B]. Jokic also doesn't fit the [B]NBA player culture[/B] AT ALL.
Here is a good example - Jokic, the potential b2b2b MVP - is not even top 15 in Jersey sales. Maybe that's an easy fact for you to understand to show that he is underappreciated by the NBA fan base. Also Jokic does not "fit in" with the average NBA player as well...he just has a way different background (dude might like messing around with horses more than basketball).
What do shirt sales have to do with him being underrated? He's not popular sure, but many NBA fans and analysts realize he's one of the best players in the league.
[QUOTE=hold this L;14741936]What do shirt sales have to do with him being underrated? He's not popular sure, but many NBA fans and analysts realize he's one of the best players in the league.[/QUOTE]
Him not being popular automatically underrates him among the masses of NBA fans. Why do you think a ton of people have Kobe Bryant as the second best player of all time? It's because of his insane popularity. People like us know Kobe is not even top five all time. Sure the basketball media and people like us know how good Jokic is, but he is getting MAJOR hate from the average NBA fan because they don't think he deserves three MVPS and a lot of people think he didn't even deserve two.
Now we got Perk actively being racist on national television regarding Jokic. Shit is sad.
Jokic is GOATED. Best offensive player in the league for me and easily one of the best all time.
Dude has been a superstar every playoff run unlike the Sixers center.