[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14732792]So how is Mj goat over Russell then who almost doubles him up in rings?[/QUOTE]
Where does Lebron rank if he's below Bill Russell in rings?
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[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14732792]So how is Mj goat over Russell then who almost doubles him up in rings?[/QUOTE]
Where does Lebron rank if he's below Bill Russell in rings?
[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14732731]Update -
MJ - 61%
LeCancer - 24%
434 votes
Yikes, considering the recently bias, we can see his longevity stats have not moved the needle on the consensus GOAT
you stupid bronie losers[/QUOTE]
Yeah there's no argument for him. 24% is being really generous, though this is a small pool of people & RGM is known for slurping Bran.
Also lol @ Kobe not being included in the poll but Wilt's on the list, that site still has a serious hate boner for KB.
[QUOTE=BigShotBob;14732908]Where does Lebron rank if he's below Bill Russell in rings?[/QUOTE]
Not sure, it's definitely not my criteria, just highlighting how hypocritical a stance it is. I know full well not many have Russell over Mj because it's not a ring counting game until it needs to be. Sliding goalposts type shit.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14732792]So how is Mj goat over Russell then who almost doubles him up in rings?[/QUOTE]
I rank by factoring in both individual and team accomplishments. I have Bill Russell ranked #2.
No Shaq no Magic no Bird no Kawhi? All of them would be ahead of Lebron as well.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14732792]So how is Mj goat over Russell then who almost doubles him up in rings?[/QUOTE]
Russell came into the league playing with the league mvp winner and ROY and only had to win 2 series to get a title. Since 1985 you had to win 4 series for a title.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14733053]I rank by factoring in both individual and team accomplishments. I have Bill Russell ranked #2.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what combination of team and individual accomplishments puts Mj ahead for you? He has the same amount of mvps and almost double the rings.
[QUOTE=kawhileonard2;14733071]Russell came into the league playing with the league mvp winner and ROY and only had to win 2 series to get a title. Since 1985 you had to win 4 series for a title.[/QUOTE]
Russell came into the league and immediately created a dynasty with his presence. He also won 5 mvps himself and was to defense what you believe Mj was to offense. Not to mention he player coached his team to back to back title after a previous 8peat? That in itself is an unmatchable goat level feat.
And throwing mud on his era is whack, Mj entered a league where all the legends were gone by the time he was in his prime. Not to mention the expansion teams watering down depth in the league. Or flagrant fouls being instituted suspiciously when the Pistons were pushing his shit in every year. Or the wnba 3 point line etc. You can throw mud on any era and it's lame.
Yeah but Russell's offensive prowess was subpar for an ATG.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14733090]Exactly what combination of team and individual accomplishments puts Mj ahead for you? He has the same amount of mvps and almost double the rings.[/QUOTE]
Add 10 scoring titles while still having elite defense to MJ.
Russell has a case for GOAT, but I have him ranked #2 personally.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14733092]Russell came into the league and immediately created a dynasty with his presence. He also won 5 mvps himself and was to defense what you believe Mj was to offense. Not to mention he player coached his team to back to back title after a previous 8peat? That in itself is an unmatchable goat level feat.
And throwing mud on his era is whack, Mj entered a league where all the legends were gone by the time he was in his prime. Not to mention the expansion teams watering down depth in the league. Or flagrant fouls being instituted suspiciously when the Pistons were pushing his shit in every year. Or the wnba 3 point line etc. You can throw mud on any era and it's lame.[/QUOTE]
Russell came into the league playing with the league mvp winner in Cousy and ROY in Heinsohn and only had to win 2 series to get a title. Since 1985 you had to win 4 series for a title.
When you show me another guy who came into the league playing with a league mvp and roy let me know.
[QUOTE=kawhileonard2;14733106]Russell came into the league playing with the league mvp winner in Cousy and ROY in Heinsohn and only had to win 2 series to get a title. Since 1985 you had to win 4 series for a title.
When you show me another guy who came into the league playing with a league mvp and roy let me know.[/QUOTE]
And take note, you didn't diss Russell's competition, like most Bronies do. Only state objective facts.
[QUOTE=kawhileonard2;14733106]Russell came into the league playing with the league mvp winner in Cousy and ROY in Heinsohn and only had to win 2 series to get a title. Since 1985 you had to win 4 series for a title.
When you show me another guy who came into the league playing with a league mvp and roy let me know.[/QUOTE]
They never made the finals before Bill, in fact they won the chip his 1st season, lost the next year after he was injured in the finals and then 8peated. And to answer your question Scottie came in with an mvp, so did Duncan. Russell actually deserved the Roy award more than the guy they gave it to but that's a whole other discussion. Bill was the engine of the dynasty that won 11 rings.
[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14732746]YeH but what about how long it took (almost twice as long), as well as how many prime stars he had to restack the deck with, as well as all the valuable cherry picked pieces picked up with valuable draft picks he gave away.
The dude couldn't have a more unorganic career if he tried.. everything is manufactured
And 2011[/QUOTE]
IMO 2011 is nullified by 2016, and stacking the deck is nullified by a very talented era. So that leaves the ring count as a very comparable metric in which Bron lags. Also longevity is a plus if we're talking titles and not accumulated scoring stats, because it means you were the best/among the best over a long period.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14732587]For me it has to be three more rings. In 2020, he wasn't even the best player in the playoffs, not to mention the asterisk of a fanless Disney World ring.[/QUOTE]
I dont diss the bubble ring. A ring is a ring, talking circumstances to put down an achievement is what Bronies do about Jordan and its fkn stupid. Lakers still had to beat a legendary Jimmy Butler and did that with Bron ball.
Another classic Bronie retort is 'Russell has 8 rings hurr durr', thinking they found some gotcha about ring counts. Its stupid af. Russell was a defender only and when he was playing, basketball was not what it is now in the modern era, in terms of gameplay, rules, format etc. I have him somewhere between 5-10 atg.
[QUOTE=PeroAntic;14733165]I dont diss the bubble ring. A ring is a ring, [B]talking circumstances to put down an achievement is what Bronies do about Jordan and its fkn stupid.[/B] Lakers still had to beat a legendary Jimmy Butler and did that with Bron ball.
Another classic Bronie retort is 'Russell has 8 rings hurr durr', thinking they found some gotcha about ring counts. Its stupid af. [B]Russell was a defender only and when he was playing, basketball was not what it is now in the modern era, in terms of gameplay, rules, format etc. [/B]I have him somewhere between 5-10 atg.[/QUOTE]
You don't say?
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14733177]You don't say?[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, the difference between MJ and Bron's era is same as the difference with Russell's era:facepalm
You bums keep trying to find that ultimate gotcha, until then live with the fact that Lebron is #2.
[QUOTE=PeroAntic;14733205]Ah yes, the difference between MJ and Bron's era is same as the difference with Russell's era:facepalm
You bums keep trying to find that ultimate gotcha, until then live with the fact that Lebron is #2.[/QUOTE]
There's no gotcha to be had, that's just the irony of your own words less than a paragraph away from one another. Try not to be a hypocrite. You literally just did to Russell what you accuse "bronies" of doing to Mj.....in the same post!
Russell was the leader of that team and his impact on defense was just as monumental as Jordan's was on offense. And when you say he was just a defender you undersell the hell out of a legend. You'd have to read some books to understand what sort of player Bill was. You think someone who was "only a defender" could ever be considered a better player than a megalithic basketball god like Wilt? Just think about that for a second and understand perhaps there was more to him than you know.
[QUOTE=PeroAntic;14733165]I dont diss the bubble ring. A ring is a ring, talking circumstances to put down an achievement is what Bronies do about Jordan and its fkn stupid. Lakers still had to beat a legendary Jimmy Butler and did that with Bron ball.
Another classic Bronie retort is 'Russell has 8 rings hurr durr', thinking they found some gotcha about ring counts. Its stupid af. Russell was a defender only and when he was playing, basketball was not what it is now in the modern era, in terms of gameplay, rules, format etc. I have him somewhere between 5-10 atg.[/QUOTE]I try to keep it away from ring count as much as possible. Yes, ring count matters... of course it does, and as unfair as it sounds, players can't make the top 10 goat list without having proven they can win a ring while dominating in the finals. For me it comes down to:
Jordan- highest playoff per, highest playoff +/-, highest playoff ppg. 179 playoff games are enough to substantiate these stats.
Lebron- highest total playoff points, highest ppg in elimination games over 87 more playoff games than Jordan.
What do you value more? Makes no difference to me, it's not like either of them so much as bought me a beer ever.
I can use eye test, but Jordan will win that one for sure. Not even that he's necessarily better, but I watched Jordan when I was much younger and thus more impressionable. It's just not a fair comparison.
[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14733283]I try to keep it away from ring count as much as possible. Yes, ring count matters... of course it does, and as unfair as it sounds, players can't make the top 10 goat list without having proven they can win a ring while dominating in the finals. For me it comes down to:
Jordan- highest playoff per, highest playoff +/-, highest playoff ppg. 179 playoff games are enough to substantiate these stats.
Lebron- highest total playoff points, highest ppg in elimination games over 87 more playoff games than Jordan.
What do you value more? Makes no difference to me, it's not like either of them so much as bought me a beer ever.
I can use eye test, but Jordan will win that one for sure. Not even that he's necessarily better, but I watched Jordan when I was much younger and thus more impressionable. It's just not a fair comparison.[/QUOTE]
Ring count alone doesn't mean a whole lot. If it did, Dennis Rodman would be top twenty of all time. But winning multiple rings as the alpha - getting finals MVP - is the pinnacle achievement in the sport. You have to factor it in.
Still
MJ 61%
LeCancer 25%
CONSENSUS GOAT....not even close.. which it actually isn't
[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14733388]Still
MJ 61%
LeCancer 25%
CONSENSUS GOAT....not even close.. which it actually isn't[/QUOTE]
I'm still waiting to see if someone can find a clip of Jordan airballing a free throw. I mean, it must have happened, right?
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F90b1ff34bd0fdf62413257486f23181d%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D4990632&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
:lol
[QUOTE=Full Court;14733392]I'm still waiting to see if someone can find a clip of Jordan airballing a free throw. I mean, it must have happened, right?
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F90b1ff34bd0fdf62413257486f23181d%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D4990632&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
:lol[/QUOTE]
I can only find him doing them with his eyes closed...literally
[QUOTE=Full Court;14733386]Ring count alone doesn't mean a whole lot. If it did, Dennis Rodman would be top twenty of all time. But winning multiple rings as the alpha - getting finals MVP - is the pinnacle achievement in the sport. You have to factor it in.[/QUOTE]100% agree. And rings aren't made the same either, no matter what anyone says. There's no way Kevin Durant isn't getting top 10 all time talk if he won 2 rings virtually anywhere else. End of the day, they're still team accomplishments, I'm sure most people still have KD top 15 or top 20 just based on stats and how good he is.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14733392]I'm still waiting to see if someone can find a clip of Jordan airballing a free throw. I mean, it must have happened, right?
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F90b1ff34bd0fdf62413257486f23181d%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D4990632&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
:lol[/QUOTE]MJ's had his share of getting embarassed, I'm sure.
[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/znIhwoCIbT8AAAAC/michael-jordan-nba.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]https://www.blackenterprise.com/files/2010/08/JohnRogers.jpg[/IMG]
[Img]https://images.teamusa.org/-/media/USA_Paralympics/Images/Headshots/Wheelchair-Basketball-Men/barber_eric_120x187.jpg?mh=250&mw=150&hash=1D6AF2BD95941D8BD773CAD1AC48B598FA33702E[/img]
[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14733429]MJ's had his share of getting embarassed, I'm sure.
[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/znIhwoCIbT8AAAAC/michael-jordan-nba.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Everyone gets blocked.
Airballing a free throw.....now that's straight up embarrassing.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDl_qzfdeE8[/url]
[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14733429]MJ's had his share of getting embarassed, I'm sure.
[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/znIhwoCIbT8AAAAC/michael-jordan-nba.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Dude said.... get that tongue back in your mouth, bitch!!
[QUOTE=Full Court;14733392]I'm still waiting to see if someone can find a clip of Jordan airballing a free throw. I mean, it must have happened, right?
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F90b1ff34bd0fdf62413257486f23181d%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D4990632&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
:lol[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure he's got one in the archives, but nobody makes highlight reels of airballs. I know he's shot his fair share of airballs in general though.
[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14733429]MJ's had his share of getting embarassed, I'm sure.
[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/znIhwoCIbT8AAAAC/michael-jordan-nba.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Dayum that's terrible.
[QUOTE=Bacchus;14733689][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDl_qzfdeE8[/url][/QUOTE]
Dayum that's terrible.
[QUOTE=Airupthere;14733731]Dayum that's terrible.[/QUOTE]
The difference is when it's lebron we've already seen it 1000 times replayed. When it's Mj it's usually edited out lol.
Update
mj - 61%
lefraud - 25%
it
is
over
[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14733791]Update
mj - 61%
lefraud - 25%
it
is
over[/QUOTE]
Shows that LeBron is AT MINIMUM the 2nd best player of all time. Pretty good I'd say :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=SaltyMeatballs;14733820]Shows that LeBron is AT MINIMUM the 2nd best player of all time. Pretty good I'd say :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Funny how they always compare their precious hero more to him than anybody else in the league.
[QUOTE=Axe;14733823]Funny how they always compare their precious hero more to him than anybody else in the league.[/QUOTE]
If you're only getting compared to Jordan and constantly ruffle the feathers of even the most casual Jordan fans, I'd say you must be doing something right.
[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14733791]Update
mj - 61%
lefraud - 25%
it
is
over[/QUOTE]
I mean, it's just reinforcing what everyone with a brain already knew. Watch: ten years from now, Bronie won't even come close to reaching 25%.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14733827]I mean, it's just reinforcing what everyone with a brain already knew. Watch: ten years from now, Bronie won't even come close to reaching 25%.[/QUOTE]
It's true.
He will be sitting somewhere in the teens, at best
I've always said once the recency bias dies down, time will not be kind to his legacy.
Hes gonna have to keep paying the networks to stay a little relevant