Klay Thompson vs. Carmelo Anthony

[QUOTE=tpols;14838881]Been watching college basketball since the early 2000s when Jameer Nelson and Delonte West went 30-0 or whatever.

Melo was the most talent having looking young player ive ever seen. I know lebron and Kobe skipped college but Melo looked even better than Wade in college. He was a super elite talent. I don't think his true talent showed itself due to circumstance in the NBA entertainment league.[/QUOTE]

KD as a 1st year player had that 'it factor,' and dude couldn't even hit 185 on bench. His tx team wasn't good enough, but I have no doubt if they had a lil more, he could have been a MOP and champ in NCAA, too.

Melo is a dog though. Like I said dudes have a large amount of hatred for Melo and it's easy because he has failed a lot. Still, he did it. I still remember when he shit on Bron.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MY0qUt5CM[/url]

That's Melo. Great D. No way anyone is contesting that shot. Pure confidence, all net.

Edit: infact one could say Melo has a 90s skillset and maybe the game passed him up. He hit 3s, too, but the whole iso 17 footer game was his stuff. Barely even had to dribble, and these days that's looked at as really bad ball. In the clutch tho it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

-Smak

[QUOTE]
In a lot of cases, I think Melo would fit, though. He definitely is a ball stopper, but if he plays with the right guys, it's not an issue. He doesn't stand there and dribble the ball, he gets to his spots and takes the shot. A team of good players would be getting him the ball when necessary and going elsewhere when not.
[/QUOTE]

Bingo. That's why he dominated FIBA.

You don't want Melo being your top guy on mediocre teams tasked with doing everything.

Put him on a team like the Warriors where iggy dray and bogut and all the other guys cover defense and culture forces you to play it.... watch Syracuse Melo... he was skying for chase down blocks.

Never would have thought it, but in the right system young Melo had elite defensive potential. Which is why it's such a shame Detroit didn't get him. Legacy would've been so different. Butterfly effect super potent.

[QUOTE=tpols;14838893]Bingo. That's why he dominated FIBA.

You don't want Melo being your top guy on mediocre teams tasked with doing everything.

Put him on a team like the Warriors where iggy dray and bogut and all the other guys cover defense and culture forces you to play it.... watch Syracuse Melo... he was skying for chase down blocks.

Never would have thought it, but in the right system young Melo had elite defensive potential. Which is why it's such a shame Detroit didn't get him. Legacy would've been so different. Butterfly effect super potent.[/QUOTE]

Had Detroit picked him up, we would talking completely differently by now. It's crazy what a huge **** up that was.

[QUOTE=rawimpact;14838734]Carmelo
Carmelo
Carmelo

easy... all carmelo needed was a good PG he trusted

I don't quite believe Klay can create his own shots. I do believe a lot of his success comes from benefiting from Curry and his off-ball skills and the system -- all pretty much GSW bball.

Klay would put up good numbers as a first, but would probably never win anything Ex. Michael Redd[/QUOTE]

Check these numbers out: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?510211-Klay-Thompson-16-games-without-Steph-26-7-ppg-4-3-rpg-2-6-apg-on-59-33-TS/page2[/url]

[QUOTE=ILLsmak;14838871]It's very rare for a freshman one and done to succeed like Melo did. I think someone else did it recently (with a stacked team,) but while they are 'the best players,' they generally aren't ready to go deep in the tourney and win. Look at guys like KD for instance. They get it in, but they don't W. Crazy young team to win with, too.

It's not fair to say every team would want Klay. It's true, but that's because that's the type of player he is. He's basically a star role player haha. It's kind of a theoretical question, do you want the guy who can play second or third option role REALLY WELL + play D or do you want the superstar who can't fit on every team.

In a lot of cases, I think Melo would fit, though. He definitely is a ball stopper, but if he plays with the right guys, it's not an issue. He doesn't stand there and dribble the ball, he gets to his spots and takes the shot. A team of good players would be getting him the ball when necessary and going elsewhere when not.

Melo is also no joke on the boards and he would fit as a 4 on some teams. He's not a great defender, though. Melo is highly underrated and I think he gets a cancer tag when he just had some tough luck with squads.

If you had a coach who was smart enough to find a way to incorporate Melo, I think he would fit on most teams. Most of the teams he wouldn't fit on would be teams with guys who liked to dribble the ball 10 times every possession. He'd def fit on GSW. If you took out Klay and replaced him with an average player and put Melo at the 3 or 4, that would still be a championship team.

-Smak[/QUOTE]

I want the guy that is about winning period. Carmelo was all about Carmelo. Money and empty stats. Klay is willing to play the 4 if it's best for the team while Carmelo is losing playoff series because he's a 'starter only'! His tough luck with the squad in NY was because he couldn't wait to be a free agent and they had to give up a lot of talent to get him

[QUOTE=tpols;14838881]Been watching college basketball since the early 2000s when Jameer Nelson and Delonte West went 30-0 or whatever.

Melo was the most talent having looking young player ive ever seen. I know lebron and Kobe skipped college but Melo looked even better than Wade in college. He was a super elite talent. I don't think his true talent showed itself due to circumstance in the NBA entertainment league.[/QUOTE]

Wade played 3 year of college so Carmelo had more upside. Wade is an all time great. Carmelo is just another high scoring SF

[QUOTE=tpols;14838893]Bingo. That's why he dominated FIBA.

You don't want Melo being your top guy on mediocre teams tasked with doing everything.

Put him on a team like the Warriors where iggy dray and bogut and all the other guys cover defense and culture forces you to play it.... watch Syracuse Melo... he was skying for chase down blocks.

Never would have thought it, but in the right system young Melo had elite defensive potential. Which is why it's such a shame Detroit didn't get him. Legacy would've been so different. Butterfly effect super potent.[/QUOTE]

you're assuming he would have bought in at 19 when he never bought in the rest of his career. He would have expected to start in Detroit immediately. Larry Brown and him would have butting heads from the get go

[QUOTE=hold this L;14838948]Had Detroit picked him up, we would talking completely differently by now. It's crazy what a huge **** up that was.[/QUOTE]

yeah Wade would have how many titles if Detroit had taken the best guy there?

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14838975]yeah Wade would have how many titles if Detroit had taken the best guy there?[/QUOTE]

If you reversed circumstances and let Melo come up under Riley and play with Shaq when he was still 2nd in MVP voting and then peak prime Lebron and Bosh and on the flip side have Wade play for the mediocre Nuggets in the tough West and then the Dolan joke Knicks in the East not only would their productions look different but the ring results would be flipped. Melo had just as much if not more talent than Wade. He just didn't have anywhere near the same level of help.

[QUOTE=tpols;14839052]If you reversed circumstances and let Melo come up under Riley and play with Shaq when he was still 2nd in MVP voting and then peak prime Lebron and Bosh and on the flip side have Wade play for the mediocre Nuggets in the tough West and then the Dolan joke Knicks in the East not only would their productions look different but the ring results would be flipped. Melo had just as much if not more talent than Wade. He just didn't have anywhere near the same level of help.[/QUOTE]

Melo was ass in 06. 43 TS% bum playoff run, getting beat down and knocked out by the 06 Clippers caliber defense. Getting put through hell by Radmanović and Corey Maggette.....

I don't think he would've got out the first round in 06 in Wade's place. Nocioni would've lit him on fire and Deng would've put him in a strait jacket. The bulls played very good defense on Wade and had defensive depth top to bottom. Melo stunk for a long time compared to actual superstars. There's no revisionism or hypotheticals that can help change the reality of that.

[QUOTE=999Guy;14839055]Melo was ass in 06. 43 TS% bum playoff run, getting beat down and knocked out by the 06 Clippers caliber defense. Getting put through hell by Radmanović and Corey Maggette.....

I don't think he would've got out the first round in 06 in Wade's place. Nocioni would've lit him on fire and Deng would've put him in a strait jacket. The bulls played very good defense on Wade and had defensive depth top to bottom. Melo stunk for a long time compared to actual superstars. There's no revisionism or hypotheticals that can help change the reality of that.[/QUOTE]


Melos 2nd option in that series was 16 ppg Andre Miller. 3rd option Greg Buckner at 12 ppg. I guarantee you've never heard of that guy.

Meanwhile Wade was playing with a still 20/10 60%FG Shaq coming off a runner up MVP season. I remember Miami Shaq because he bounced the Kidd Carter Jefferson Nets out the playoffs. He was still a great player around that time.

If you flip those circumstances it's possible Wade doesn't even make the playoffs with Denver.

Klay fits a whole lot more teams with his great on ball defense (he routinely took turns or whole games being the primary defender on the other teams best player) and his non ball dominant style. Its just a seamless fit for any team.

Melo would be better on a crap team where he volume scoring is better, but there is a cap on team success with that style.

He's a hard call for being a dominant #2 as well. He doesn't do enough of the other things (playmaking, defense, etc) like other elite title winning wing #2s usually provide.

Klay literally fits on any team, which is very rare.

I gotta take back everything I said. I thought this thread was about who was the better player. haha. I can say with conviction that it's a not even close situation, but given the parameters laid out, who knows... I personally feel Melo ticks 2/3, but regardless he is definitely better at basketball. The fact that anyone would legit argue for Klay is just troll and hate for Melo.

PEACE

-Smak

[QUOTE=ILLsmak;14839065]I gotta take back everything I said. I thought this thread was about who was the better player. haha. I can say with conviction that it's a not even close situation, but given the parameters laid out, who knows... I personally feel Melo ticks 2/3, but regardless he is definitely better at basketball. The fact that anyone would legit argue for Klay is just troll and hate for Melo.

PEACE

-Smak[/QUOTE]

They don't understand context.

I lost week 3 in my fantasy football league because I started Derrick Henry instead of Chris godwin. Henry got stuffed for 2 points and I lost by less than 1.

Context matters. Talent can only go as far as the circumstances that surround it.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14839062]Klay fits a whole lot more teams with his great on ball defense (he routinely took turns or whole games being the primary defender on the other teams best player) and his non ball dominant style. Its just a seamless fit for any team.

Melo would be better on a crap team where he volume scoring is better, but there is a cap on team success with that style.

He's a hard call for being a dominant #2 as well. He doesn't do enough of the other things (playmaking, defense, etc) like other elite title winning wing #2s usually provide.

Klay literally fits on any team, which is very rare.[/QUOTE]

Prime Melo would be better in either situation. You haven't watched Denver or Syracuse Melo if you think otherwise. He was more athletic and more skilled and flat out better. The thought of 18 year old Klay leading a team to a championship is totally unfathomable.

Even when the warriors first won Klay was putting up 15 ppg on poor shooting in the Finals. Melo would crush him if they exchanged places.

[QUOTE=tpols;14839068]They don't understand context.

I lost week 3 in my fantasy football league because I started Derrick Henry instead of Chris godwin. Henry got stuffed for 2 points and I lost by less than 1.

[B]Context matters[/B]. Talent can only go as far as the circumstances that surround it.[/QUOTE]

The point gets lost when you go a step too far and try to say the difference between him and Wade was the circumstances.

Melo got the deserved hype for his crazy well-rounded scoring ability as a top recruit and freshman leading a good team to a title, whereas Wade was a relative nobody until the tournament. But Wade's all-around game was always better.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14839073]The point gets lost when you go a step too far and try to say the difference between him and Wade was the circumstances.

Melo got the deserved hype for his crazy well-rounded scoring ability as a top recruit and freshman leading a good team to a title, whereas Wade was a relative nobody until the tournament. But Wade's all-around game was always better.[/QUOTE]

I just feel like circumstances dictated that. Go watch young Melo. He was an elite athlete pinning balls on the backboard defensively. He played for a relatively speaking crappy nugget team who didn't prioritize defense at all. Wade played under Pat Riley. With Shaq. The context is just wildly different. A lot of these stars at the top aren't as far apart individually as it would seem.

[QUOTE=tpols;14839052]If you reversed circumstances and let Melo come up under Riley and play with Shaq when he was still 2nd in MVP voting and then peak prime Lebron and Bosh and on the flip side have Wade play for the mediocre Nuggets in the tough West and then the Dolan joke Knicks in the East not only would their productions look different but the ring results would be flipped. Melo had just as much if not more talent than Wade. He just didn't have anywhere near the same level of help.[/QUOTE]

can't see Riley wanting Carmelo. Doesn't have the DNA. He was nowhere near the player Wade was

Ttrolls arguing Melo vs Wade is just further proof he can't analyze basketball. Wade was many magnitudes better.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14839101]can't see Riley wanting Carmelo. Doesn't have the DNA. He was nowhere near the player Wade was[/QUOTE]

He was a champion at 18 years old and dominated the field. One of the best college players ever. Why wouldn't Riley want him? Youre only looking at things in hindsight that other circumstances dictated.

[QUOTE=tpols;14839076]I just feel like circumstances dictated that. Go watch young Melo. He was an elite athlete pinning balls on the backboard defensively. He played for a relatively speaking crappy nugget team who didn't prioritize defense at all. Wade played under Pat Riley. With Shaq. The context is just wildly different. A lot of these stars at the top aren't as far apart individually as it would seem.[/QUOTE]

you seem to be ignoring the intangibles. Wade had everything but the 3. Carmelo could score. Didn't bring you much else. Wade or Klay any day on any team. Winning a championship in a watered down NCAA doesn't change that

Melo is higher all-time and definitely a better 1st option. As a 2nd option I'd probably go with Klay though. This comparison is a perfect example of portability differences. Melo is the better player but his value decreases on good teams. Klay is less valuable but his value increases on good teams because he's an amazing play finisher (3pt shooter), doesn't need the ball, and plays good defense. Whereas Melo's skills as an iso scorer become less valuable on an already good team.

However, there is a caveat that perhaps Melo if ever forced to be a 2nd option would defer and play more off-ball while focusing more energy on defense. He was a very good shooter after all. Thus it's possible I'm underrating Melo's portability.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14838674]Melo is better but I would rather have Klay in my team[/QUOTE]

This is basically my stance.

Melo might be a better and more skilled individual player, but if I'm building a team, I'd choose Klay without hesitation. He brings elite shooting and defense. He also isn't hurting the team's ball movement, unlike Melo.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14839110]you seem to be ignoring the tangibles. Wade had everything but the 3. Carmelo could score. Didn't bring you much else. Wade or Klay any day on any team. Winning a championship in a watered down NCAA doesn't change that[/QUOTE]

Like I said Carmelo had defensive talent but never played for a team that prioritized it. And if you swap them Wade wins nothing with those Nuggets or Knicks. You're not considering circumstance. The best player prime Melo ever played with was Chauncey billups... who was nice, but compared to Shaq and Lebron is a joke.

BTW Melo was taken before Wade or Klay in the draft.

[QUOTE=tpols;14839115]Like I said Carmelo had defensive talent but never played for a team that prioritized it. And if you swap them Wade wins nothing with those Nuggets or Knicks. You're not considering circumstance. The best player prime Melo ever played with was Chauncey billups... who was nice, but compared to Shaq and Lebron is a joke.[/QUOTE]

Who knows what the Nuggets do if they are swapped? A lot easier to build around one of the greatest players ever vs an over hyped high scoring sf. Obviously Dolan and the Knicks were a mess. Carmelo made it even worse by forcing a trade there instead of going there in free agency

[QUOTE=tpols;14839119]BTW Melo was taken before Wade or Klay in the draft.[/QUOTE]

So was Darko

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14839120]Who knows what the Nuggets do if they are swapped? A lot easier to build around one of the greatest players ever vs an over hyped high scoring sf. Obviously Dolan and the Knicks were a mess. Carmelo made it even worse by forcing a trade there instead of going there in free agency[/QUOTE]

There's no way you can twist Wade winning with those Nuggets. And especially not with the Knicks. It's not possible. He only ever won with shaq and lebron. Powerhouse help. Not saying he isn't great but he clearly had way more help.

[QUOTE=tpols;14839125]There's no way you can twist Wade winning with those Nuggets. And especially not with the Knicks. It's not possible. He only ever won with shaq and lebron. Powerhouse help. Not saying he isn't great but he clearly had way more help.[/QUOTE]

Shaq on the downside of his career while Wade had one of the greatest performances ever to carry them. Maybe he doesn't win a title with Denver but they would have certainly been a lot better team. The guy was a winner. Carmelo not so much

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14839131]Shaq on the downside of his career while Wade had one of the greatest performances ever to carry them. Maybe he doesn't win a title with Denver but they would have certainly been a lot better team. The guy was a winner. Carmelo not so much[/QUOTE]

Better than the WCFs? Doubtful.

Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting in 2005 and hung 20/10 on big efficiency vs Detroit in 2006. Sure Wade had a great Finals but he needed to break free throw records to do it. 100+ FTs in 6 games. Anybody can win if it's rigged.

[QUOTE=tpols;14839141]Better than the WCFs? Doubtful.

Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting in 2005 and hung 20/10 on big efficiency vs Detroit in 2006. Sure Wade had a great Finals but he needed to break free throw records to do it. 100+ FTs in 6 games. Anybody can win if it's rigged.[/QUOTE]

hard to imagine a team with Wade not doing better than a team with Carmelo. Some guys are special. Others just think they're special