TRADE: Jrue Holiday to the Celtics for Timelord, Brogdan and 2 firsts.

Worth pointing out: Portland has already laid out a good foundation for the post-Lillaird rebuild. In two years they could be as good as they ever were with him.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834629]Worth pointing out: Portland has already laid out a good foundation for the post-Lillaird rebuild. In two years they could be as good as they ever were with him.[/QUOTE]

Maybe when they flip Ayton assuming they can

[QUOTE] Shams Charania: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Free agent F/C Wenyen Gabriel is finalizing a deal with the Boston Celtics,[/URL] sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Gabriel, who averaged 5.5 PPG and 4.2 RPG for Lakers last season, will compete for a reserve big man spot in Boston.

– via [URL="https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania"]Twitter ShamsCharania[/URL]


[/QUOTE]

you got your guy and he's not a headcase either!

I tentatively like this trade for Boston. If they can stay healthy, watch out!

[QUOTE=Wally450;14834521]Wonder what we’re doing for our big man situation.[/QUOTE]

Woj said they signed Wendall Gabriel to a training camp deal.


[url]https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1708557665083760855?t=7O7tgCNiTDNCmtuW9viJXQ&s=19[/url]

.I see Xaio already has covered it.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14834647]Woj said they signed Wendall Gabriel to a training camp deal.


[URL]https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1708557665083760855?t=7O7tgCNiTDNCmtuW9viJXQ&s=19[/URL][/QUOTE]

did not know that

Rmwg, the table set to depend completely on porzingis stayin healthy / fitting. Wow.

Their healthy five looks good is about what u can say. I got a bad feeling, but hope they do ok.

-Smak

Blake Griffin is an obvious choice that the Celtics continue to show interest in a return, now with the possibility of a bigger role. [URL="https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/10/what-surprise-jrue-holiday-trade-means-for-celtics-roster-options.html"]For now, the big man remains on the sidelines ahead of training camp as he spends time with family and weighs his future per sources[/URL].
– via [URL="https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2023/10/what-surprise-jrue-holiday-trade-means-for-celtics-roster-options.html"]Brian Robb @ Booth Newspapers[/URL]

I like the deal. Brogdon is nice but he’s a neutral impact guy, jrue with his flaws is an all star and going be a 4th option. They are relying a lot on porzingis but I think they can find a bench big before trade deadline or play kornet more. Timelord is a good piece but was too injury prone for them and the Celtics 3rd big. He wasn’t getting big minutes in playoffs unless porzingis was injuref

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834527]They should give Dwight Howard a shot. He could even start for the sake of preserving Horford.[/QUOTE]
Love it

Howard’s immature attention wh0re persona doesnt fit this Celtics team’s energy. I‘d pass.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14834668]Howard’s immature attention wh0re persona doesnt fit this Celtics team’s energy. I‘d pass.[/QUOTE]

as every franchise in the world outside Taiwan has for a few years

[QUOTE=highwhey;14834542]i guess this solves the "whos going to replace marcus smart defensive role"


celtics>>>bucks. unless tatum chokes again.[/QUOTE]

When did Tatum choke?

[QUOTE=highwhey;14834542]i guess this solves the "whos going to replace marcus smart defensive role"


[B]celtics>>>bucks[/B]. unless tatum chokes again.[/QUOTE]

What?? Bucks are still a much more complete team and have a slightly better starting 5.

Lopez > Porz
Giannis > Tatum
Middleton = Brown
Beasley < Jrue
Lillard > White

[QUOTE=bladefd;14834685]What?? Bucks are still a much more complete team and have a slightly better starting 5.

Lopez > Porz
Giannis > Tatum
Middleton = Brown
Beasley < Jrue
Lillard > White[/QUOTE]

Porzingis is statistically better than Lopez, who at 35 is a candidate for decline. Middleton was not AllNBA last year. He may have recovered a bit more but we also may have seen the player he will be going forward while last year a still improving JB was as good as he's ever been.

[QUOTE=bladefd;14834685]What?? Bucks are still a much more complete team and have a slightly better starting 5.

Lopez > Porz INCORRECT, Porz is a good defensively and SIGNIFICANTLY better at Offense
Giannis > Tatum CORRECT
Middleton = Brown I'd give the edge to brown
Beasley < Jrue CORRECT
Lillard > White CORRECTT[/QUOTE]
I count 3 better Celtics starters

They literally made this trade to contain Dame and I think the plan will work now that they have Jrue and Porzingis.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834688]Porzingis is statistically better than Lopez, who at 35 is a candidate for decline. Middleton was not AllNBA last year. He may have recovered a bit more but we also may have seen the player he will be going forward while last year a still improving JB was as good as he's ever been.[/QUOTE]

Porz is always hurt. So is his backup Horford last few years. Lopez rarely gets hurt. Availability is half the game.

Middleton was coming off an injury last year. Both are also very inefficient. Brown averages few more points per game because he shoots few more shots per game. Both are about equal to me even if Brown is a bit better athlete.

this was sell the farm to get Holiday ... they have no bench now LMFAO

Incredible get for Boston but giving up Williams is surprising to say the least and very much damaging. Brogdon is nothing and anyone who compares him to Holiday is a fool.

[QUOTE=Proctor;14834701]Incredible get for Boston but giving up Williams is surprising to say the least and very much damaging. Brogdon is nothing and anyone who compares him to Holiday is a fool.[/QUOTE]

coming from the guy that thinks Puerto Rican League centers are better than an all NBAer/DPOTY! :lol

[QUOTE=bladefd;14834690]Porz is always hurt. So is his backup Horford last few years. Lopez rarely gets hurt. Availability is half the game.

Middleton was coming off an injury last year. Both are also very inefficient. Brown averages few more points per game because he shoots few more shots per game. Both are about equal to me even if Brown is a bit better athlete.[/QUOTE]

Horford isn't always hurt, he's rested often because he's old. And Lopez is almost as old as he is. Porzingis does miss more games than Lopez but averaging 7 more points has to count for something.

Don't see how you can hold games played against Porzingis and Horford but then ignore that Middleton played in just 33 contests. And saying that Brown is inefficient makes no sense when he's shooting 49% from the field. You can give that label to Middleton but only real flaw with Brown is his dribbling. 26.6 vs. 15.1 is not "a few more points," come on. Yout match up analysis had some severe flaws. And that's not how basketball is played to begin with, they're still be a lot more to a series than a list of guy vs. guy....a list that actually favors the Celtics anyway.

[QUOTE=Proctor;14834701]Incredible get for Boston but giving up Williams is surprising to say the least and very much damaging. Brogdon is nothing and anyone who compares him to Holiday is a fool.[/QUOTE]

Brogdon was sixth man of the year and made allstar. He can score at a high level and would possibly be having a great career if he could stay healthy. Holiday is better because of durability and what he does on defense but you calling Brogdon nothing is off.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834707]Brogdon was sixth man of the year and made allstar. He can score at a high level and would possibly be having a great career if he could stay healthy. Holiday is better because of durability and what he does on defense but you calling Brogdon nothing is off.[/QUOTE]
I meant 'nothing' as in his overall value to the Celtics and was saying giving him up in a trade is nothing. He's a solid player, but injury prone and may not have even wanted to play in Boston anyway. He is bench depth while Holiday is a championship level plug-in to just about anywhere.

[QUOTE=Proctor;14834710]I meant 'nothing' as in his overall value to the Celtics and was saying giving him up in a trade is nothing. He's a solid player, but injury prone and may not have even wanted to play in Boston anyway. He is bench depth while Holiday is a championship level plug-in to just about anywhere.[/QUOTE]

Actually agreed Celtics did not get noticeably better adding brogdon for nothing and impact metrics have his as a net neutral. Those bench scorers usually put up good numbers but don’t help you win that many more games. Timelord was impactful but he’s injury prone as hell and didn’t really fit mazzulas 5 out scheme. Stevens will find a decent big before trade deadline

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;14834720]Actually agreed Celtics did not get noticeably better adding brogdon for nothing and impact metrics have his as a net neutral. Those bench scorers usually put up good numbers but don’t help you win that many more games. Timelord was impactful but he’s injury prone as hell and didn’t really fit mazzulas 5 out scheme. Stevens will find a decent big before trade deadline[/QUOTE]
Maybe ibaka could help? Although he's playing in a different league rn.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834706]Horford isn't always hurt, he's rested often because he's old. And Lopez is almost as old as he is. Porzingis does miss more games than Lopez but averaging 7 more points has to count for something.

Don't see how you can hold games played against Porzingis and Horford but then ignore that Middleton played in just 33 contests. And saying that Brown is inefficient makes no sense when he's shooting 49% from the field. You can give that label to Middleton but only real flaw with Brown is his dribbling. 26.6 vs. 15.1 is not "a few more points," come on. Yout match up analysis had some severe flaws. And that's not how basketball is played to begin with, they're still be a lot more to a series than a list of guy vs. guy....a list that actually favors the Celtics anyway.[/QUOTE]

Horford doesn't give you very much even in less minutes than in past. I think Porz shoots more, but Lopez they don't usually draw up plays for him. You better pray neither get hurt because there is not much depth on your bench.

Middleton was coming off a major injury, but is in latter half prime of his career. He doesn't have a history of injuries. Porzingis does and Horford is falling apart fast physically. It makes recovery difficult.

Both are chuckers afaik. Ofc, I would probably have Jaylen creating than Middleton, but addition of Lillard opens up the court for middleton. They also have Beasley, who always needs someone on him. Brown has to expend energy doing a lot more on offense (he often forces things), while Middleton will be mostly catch and shoot.

You are comparing their scoring the one season that Middleton was coming off a major injury/surgery. Brown was not.

[QUOTE=bladefd;14834731]Horford doesn't give you very much even in less minutes than in past. I think Porz shoots more, but Lopez they don't usually draw up plays for him. You better pray neither get hurt because there is not much depth on your bench.

Middleton was coming off a major injury, but is in latter half prime of his career. He doesn't have a history of injuries. Porzingis does and Horford is falling apart fast physically. It makes recovery difficult.

Both are chuckers afaik. Ofc, I would probably have Jaylen creating than Middleton, but addition of Lillard opens up the court for middleton. They also have Beasley, who always needs someone on him. Brown has to expend energy doing a lot more on offense (he often forces things), while Middleton will be mostly catch and shoot.

You are comparing their scoring the one season that Middleton was coming off a major injury/surgery. Brown was not.[/QUOTE]

Middleton's career high for ppg is 21. So even that number doesn't stack up. And he's had 29 and 27 game seasons. The 27 game season may have been him just not getting to play as a rookie but the 29 game season was close to his prime years when he was a contributor. How he is not an injury risk while purred Porzingis is just makes no sense. The double standard is apparent and unjustified. And Brown is clearly ahead of Middleton right now.

Horford is not going to play as much as he used to due to age but how is he falling apart 1? What was his last major injury to justify that statement?

:oldlol:Highway robbery by Portland. Looks like Celdicks will need to wait a few more decades to win another title.

this move counters the Heat really well for the Celtics. and Blazers are looking a lot like the Wolves.

[QUOTE=bladefd;14834731]Horford doesn't give you very much even in less minutes than in past. I think Porz shoots more, but Lopez they don't usually draw up plays for him. You better pray neither get hurt because there is not much depth on your bench.

Middleton was coming off a major injury, but is in latter half prime of his career. He doesn't have a history of injuries. Porzingis does and Horford is falling apart fast physically. It makes recovery difficult.

Both are chuckers afaik. Ofc, I would probably have Jaylen creating than Middleton, but addition of Lillard opens up the court for middleton. They also have Beasley, who always needs someone on him. Brown has to expend energy doing a lot more on offense (he often forces things), while Middleton will be mostly catch and shoot.

You are comparing their scoring the one season that Middleton was coming off a major injury/surgery. Brown was not.[/QUOTE]

Beasley is very streaky. Doesn't always need someone on him

Feels weird that the Blazers now look like they have the best team they have had since Lillard/Aldridge...kinda the one that Lillard was always asking for. Certain poetic justice to it all. Bright future for them for sure

Jrue is better than Brogdon but losing Williams hurts for Boston. This trade is a lateral move at best and a damaging move at worst.

They oughtta try and bring back Daniel Theis honestly, a couple years ago when Williams missed a chunk of time in the playoffs Theis filled the spot admirably and they didnt miss a beat.

[QUOTE=dankok8;14834839]Jrue is better than Brogdon but losing Williams hurts for Boston. This trade is a lateral move at best and a damaging move at worst.[/QUOTE]

The Celtics were lacking some dawg outside of Smart to begin with, then they moved Smart for a long term frontcourt upgrade, which is fair but Zingis also isnt a dawg. They needed a dawg. The move might seem lateral on paper but it’s an upgrade in intangibles. They really oughtta get Theis back on their bench, hes another dawg.

I also think they risk doing this all for naught if they leave Mazzulla in charge and he doesnt show some progress from last year.

This deal appears so lopsided in Portland's favor that i feel like ...... what am i missing? Is there some other part of the trade we aren't aware of? :wtf:

[QUOTE=Dbrog;14834836]Feels weird that the Blazers now look like they have the best team they have had since Lillard/Aldridge...kinda the one that Lillard was always asking for. Certain poetic justice to it all. Bright future for them for sure[/QUOTE]

unless Simons is ready to carry them they should be one of the worst teams in the league

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834735]Middleton's career high for ppg is 21. So even that number doesn't stack up. And he's had 29 and 27 game seasons. The 27 game season may have been him just not getting to play as a rookie but the 29 game season was close to his prime years when he was a contributor. How he is not an injury risk while purred Porzingis is just makes no sense. The double standard is apparent and unjustified. And Brown is clearly ahead of Middleton right now.

Horford is not going to play as much as he used to due to age but how is he falling apart 1? What was his last major injury to justify that statement?[/QUOTE]

Their career numbers are within 1ppg. Brown is probably a better scorer at this point of his career because he is being asked to be one of their top 2 scorers. Hence he shoots more per game and the ball in his hands for significantly longer periods. Even if you give the advantage to brown, it's very close.

Porzingis has a long history of injuries going back to his Knicks days from his very first season in the NBA. He is also being asked to do much more than Middleton or lopez. His backup happens to be old man horford and the undersized wenyen Gabriel. The bucks have bobby portis and Robin lopez as the backups for brook lopez.

Horford is not the same physically. Have you watched him play the last couple years? He has significantly slowed down and has trouble running up and down the court. You are a Celtics fan. How have you not noticed???

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14834759]Beasley is very streaky. Doesn't always need someone on him[/QUOTE]

True, but teams still guard him closely. Saw it with the Lakers last year. Someone was usually on him.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14834850]unless Simons is ready to carry them they should be one of the worst teams in the league[/QUOTE]

Ehhh they might have a bad season but they actually have talent now w/ the rooks rather than trotting out scrubs like Reddish or stiff Nurkic. I'm a bit higher on Scoot though so I guess we will have to see how it plays out. They look like the makings of Thunder 2.0 with their influx of picks in the coming years.

[QUOTE=Dbrog;14834876]Ehhh they might have a bad season but they actually have talent now w/ the rooks rather than trotting out scrubs like Reddish or stiff Nurkic. I'm a bit higher on Scoot though so I guess we will have to see how it plays out. They look like the makings of Thunder 2.0 with their influx of picks in the coming years.[/QUOTE]

there's a reason the Suns wanted Nurk instead of Ayton. Jazz have more picks than both and already have a competitive team