AD: 32 PPG, 13 RPG, 2 BPG on 62% FG

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904246]Yea he’s been really great. From an individual standpoint he’s holding his own but what prevents him from being truly elite is having that 3rd dimension in that he can’t really manage the game and create for others like the truly top guys.

A similar type of player like Duncan was masterful at picking his spots and knowing when to attack and what to do at all times. AD, as great as he is, doesn’t really have that. Of course Jokic does.[/QUOTE]

You're mad that a PF/C is not a PG? You're a total fool.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14904207]Not really. AD had the better game. More assists, 5 less TOs, 5 less points but better shooting numbers. It's just he's never going to get the credit that he deserves, even if it was in a meaningless game. He's pretty much matched Jokic in the series with 30/16/4 66%TS averages & they're still down 1 - 3..[/QUOTE]

Spot on. Only a casual fan can think "mORe pOiNtS = bETtEr gAmE". Such a simple perspective lacking understanding.

[QUOTE=beasted;14904263]You're mad that a PF/C is not a PG? You're a total fool.[/QUOTE]

Mad? No I'm not mad dude what :lol

I literally gave two examples the post you quoted of great PFs/Cs orchestrating things and setting others up. All of the greatest players ever have done this, regardless of position. Aside from perhaps the true freaks who were unstoppable scorers like Kareem and Shaq. But even both of them were great passers and knew when to pick their spots.

[QUOTE=beasted;14904262]Are you a delusional fanboy or what? If he's constantly coordinating leaving his assignment open for baseline cuts and dunks then he's doing a great job. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Yea that was an absurd take.

AD is clearly the dominant defensive player like 10 fold over any other Laker player right now.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904265]Mad? No I'm not mad dude what :lol

I literally gave two examples the post you quoted of great PFs/Cs orchestrating things and setting others up. All of the greatest players ever have done this, regardless of position. Aside from perhaps the true freaks who were unstoppable scorers like Kareem and Shaq. But even both of them were great passers and knew when to pick their spots.[/QUOTE]

So you're mad that Davis isn't as good or better than top 10 all time players? Equally asinine.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904265]Mad? No I'm not mad dude what :lol

I literally gave two examples the post you quoted of great PFs/Cs orchestrating things and setting others up. All of the greatest players ever have done this, regardless of position. Aside from perhaps the true freaks who were unstoppable scorers like Kareem and Shaq. But even both of them were great passers and knew when to pick their spots.[/QUOTE]

AD is literally averaging 30/15 now on 60+% shooting. And 4 dimes a game which is more than Shaq and Kareem used to average. All your criticisms against him apply to them but he's actually a better defensive player.

It's amazing what the old head revisionism has had us brainwashed with. Shaq and Kareem averaged 3 assists per game. They were NOT great passers. They knew how to throw a simple kick out when they were doubled... like almost everybody. Watching Jokic really gives you an appreciation for what great big man passing is. Divac and Sabonis do as well.

[QUOTE=tpols;14904279]It's amazing what the old head revisionism has had us brainwashed with. Shaq and Kareem averaged 3 assists per game. They were NOT great passers. They knew how to throw a simple kick out when they were doubled... like almost everybody. Watching Jokic really gives you an appreciation for what great big man passing is. Divac and Sabonis do as well.[/QUOTE]

AD did grow up playing point guard before his growth spurt. Was nice to see him do more of the playmaking this RS. Him and Bron are picking Jokic apart with the P&R, if they can stay consistent and keep attacking Joker they got a chance to at least bring this back to LA.

[QUOTE=beasted;14904271]So you're mad that Davis isn't as good or better than top 10 all time players? Equally asinine.[/QUOTE]

I think you’re the angry one here so stop projecting. All the greatest current players have things he doesn’t in that sense.

I’m not talking about assist number with this either. It’s an overall IQ and feel for the game thing. This was a criticism of AD before he joined the Lakers. Now it’s apparently a sensitive subject because of Lebron but he’s never been a particularly high IQ guy nor a leader. Lebron covers up a lot of that and as triggering as that can be for some..it’s just a fact.

Great player sure. But that’s what does, and always did, prevent him from being discussed among the best handful of guys in the league.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904283]I think you’re the angry one here so stop projecting. All the greatest current players have things he doesn’t in that sense.

I’m not talking about assist number with this either. It’s an overall IQ and feel for the game thing. This was a criticism of AD before he joined the Lakers. Now it’s apparently a sensitive subject because of Lebron but he’s never been a particularly high IQ guy nor a leader. Lebron covers up a lot of that and as triggering as that can be for some..it’s just a fact.

Great player sure. But that’s what does, and always did, prevent him from being discussed among the best handful of guys in the league.[/QUOTE]

Can you name any front court players who are not consensus top 15 players who bridge the gap between wherever you think AD is ranked all time and this "elite game manager" PF/C class?

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904283]I think you’re the angry one here so stop projecting. All the greatest current players have things he doesn’t in that sense.

I’m not talking about assist number with this either. It’s an overall IQ and feel for the game thing. This was a criticism of AD before he joined the Lakers. Now it’s apparently a sensitive subject because of Lebron but he’s never been a particularly high IQ guy nor a leader. Lebron covers up a lot of that and as triggering as that can be for some..it’s just a fact.

Great player sure. But that’s what does, and always did, prevent him from being discussed among the best handful of guys in the league.[/QUOTE]
There isn't a single second option in the playoffs so far that's playing anywhere near as good as AD. Even with his drawbacks. If he had a better motor mentally towards the end of games, could playmake and had a better feel for the game, he would be a top 2 player in the league right now.

[QUOTE=hold this L;14904312]There isn't a single second option in the playoffs so far that's playing anywhere near as good as AD. Even with his drawbacks. If he had a better motor mentally towards the end of games, could playmake and had a better feel for the game, he would be a top 2 player in the league right now.[/QUOTE]

Even as a number 1 option the criticism is unrealistic. This has been an ongoing trend detached from just AD. People talk about Durant, Tatum, Giannis, etc, at times like they're bums.

Every player cannot be a top 10 player. That's not the measuring stick for "elite"

[QUOTE=hold this L;14904312]There isn't a single second option in the playoffs so far that's playing anywhere near as good as AD. Even with his drawbacks. [B]If he had a better motor mentally towards the end of games, could playmake and had a better feel for the game, he would be a top 2 player in the league right now[/B].[/QUOTE]

Agreed..

I feel like people aren't understanding what I'm actually arguing. I was simply discussing why he isn't a true elite player and it seems like you're on the same page here. Him playing with Lebron means that people are ultimately going to be triggered but my comments had nothing to do with Lebron or his help or the Lakers in general. It was purely about AD.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904553]Agreed..

I feel like people aren't understanding what I'm actually arguing. I was simply discussing why he isn't a true elite player and it seems like you're on the same page here. Him playing with Lebron means that people are ultimately going to be triggered but my comments had nothing to do with Lebron or his help or the Lakers in general. It was purely about AD.[/QUOTE]
AD’s a classic big In that sense. What you’re describing is what sets apart Barkley from Malone imo, but Malone’s never been exposed because he played with Stockton. AD can be the best player on a winner, he just needs to play alongside a leader like Nash or Cp3.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904553]Agreed..

I feel like people aren't understanding what I'm actually arguing. I was simply discussing why he isn't a true elite player and it seems like you're on the same page here. Him playing with Lebron means that people are ultimately going to be triggered but my comments had nothing to do with Lebron or his help or the Lakers in general. It was purely about AD.[/QUOTE]

You're arguing what a current consensus top 15 player having a top 5 playoff run needs to do to become the top 2. Because only the top 2-3 players seem to be considered elite by your standard.

That's my beef with your take. This is an unreasonably high standard for "elite" in a league of 450+ players.

[QUOTE=beasted;14904593]You're arguing what a current consensus top 15 player having a top 5 playoff run needs to do to become the top 2. Because only the top 2-3 players seem to be considered elite by your standard.

That's my beef with your take. This is an unreasonably high standard for "elite" in a league of 450+ players.[/QUOTE]

Yea. I think elite in any given year is a 4-5 guys tops. Sometimes maybe even less.

Jayson Tatum and Ant are really good players but I wouldn’t consider them elite. If they’re clearly a tier below the top guys then that’s the delineation for me.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14904615]Yea. I think elite in any given year is a 4-5 guys tops. Sometimes maybe even less.

Jayson Tatum and Ant are really good players but I wouldn’t consider them elite. If they’re clearly a tier below the top guys then that’s the delineation for me.[/QUOTE]

Ok, so literally less than 1%. Cool.