Cooper Flagg Discussion Thread

Here's a slowed-down GIF of Cooper standing close to 6'8.75" barefoot Bam Adebayo:

[img]https://i.ibb.co/x6nLGzL/94impn.gif[/img]

And at the free-throw line:

[img]https://i.ibb.co/ZMLHqrP/94iptw.gif[/img]

[img]https://i.ibb.co/sCcgRtF/94iqx9.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14945356]Here's a slowed-down GIF of Cooper standing close to 6'8.75" barefoot Bam Adebayo:

[img]https://i.ibb.co/x6nLGzL/94impn.gif[/img][/QUOTE]


Yep. The shoulder height difference is pretty clear.

Size-wise Flagg is more of a big wing than a 'big.' Obviously it's still possible to look like one and play like the other. But I just see Flagg as more of a Franz Wagner at the NBA level. Which isnt a knock, Wagner's a very good player. I just dont see what aspect Flagg is going to DOMINATE in, based on his size/game at present. But he hasnt even played in college yet so theres still plenty left to learn about how he'll project.

Found a really good shot:

[img]https://i.ibb.co/brW9d57/94it8m.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14945363]Yep. The shoulder height difference is pretty clear.

[B]Size-wise Flagg is more of a big wing than a 'big.'[/B] Obviously it's still possible to look like one and play like the other. But I just see Flagg as more of a Franz Wagner at the NBA level. Which isnt a knock, Wagner's a very good player. I just dont see what aspect Flagg is going to DOMINATE in, based on his size/game at present. But he hasnt even played in college yet so theres still plenty left to learn about how he'll project.[/QUOTE]

This was my initial off the bat take as well. Thats why I was talking about him not bulking too much and try to be a pippen like player.

If he has the athleticism to pull it off it will be better for him to be a large wing rather than an undersized big man.

Can slide between both forward spots and be able to switch on big men when needed

Im thinking that is where he wants to be.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14945355]Hard to see anyone else getting multiple DPoY awards in what is going to be the Wembanyama era. Flagg seems like he will be very good, possibly even great, but Wembanyama distorts the game with his length and agility. If his coaches can get him to stop shooting threes or he becomes good at shooting threes I don't see how Flagg is ever a better player than him but Flagg could be a perennial top 10 or top 5 guy, which should still be a great career.[/QUOTE]

Can wemby defend 1-5 at an elite level and switch onto any position?

Wemby is a fantastic rim protector and will win multiple DPOY but Flagg has demonstrated defensive versatility and impact that we've never seen from a 17 year old

[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14945363]Yep. The shoulder height difference is pretty clear.

Size-wise Flagg is more of a big wing than a 'big.' Obviously it's still possible to look like one and play like the other. But I just see Flagg as more of a Franz Wagner at the NBA level. Which isnt a knock, Wagner's a very good player. I just dont see what aspect Flagg is going to DOMINATE in, based on his size/game at present. But he hasnt even played in college yet so theres still plenty left to learn about how he'll project.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14945372]This was my initial off the bat take as well. Thats why I was talking about him not bulking too much and try to be a pippen like player.

If he has the athleticism to pull it off it will be better for him to be a large wing rather than an undersized big man.

Can slide between both forward spots and be able to switch on big men when needed

Im thinking that is where he wants to be.[/QUOTE]

Big wing is definitely what it looks like. Will have to wait to get those wingspan and standing reach measurements though. His arms are really long on film.

But his robustness might be the most underrated element of his physical makeup. He looks really sturdy for a guy who's only 17 and a half. Broad shoulders, wide torso, thick and long limbs. Looks to have a really solid base.

We'll have to see how he physically develops but he may have the build and strength to play some occasional minutes as a small-ball center like Draymond. He grappled well with LeBron at times during the scrimmage. Knocked Jrue off balance several times.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14945375]Can wemby defend 1-5 at an elite level and switch onto any position

Wemby is a fantastic rim protector and will win multiple DPOY but Flagg has demonstrated defensive versatility and impact that we've never seen from a 17 year old[/QUOTE]

Wemby will always have more impact on the defensive end just because of his size and his elite rim protection.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14945375]Can wemby defend 1-5 at an elite level and switch onto any position

Wemby is a fantastic rim protector and will win multiple DPOY but Flagg has demonstrated defensive versatility and impact that we've never seen from a 17 year old[/QUOTE]
Wembanyama probably can't defend a pg as well as Jrue Holiday but he can basically defend anyone. He can give quicker players space and still block their shot. No one has ever had his combo of length and agility.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14945377]Wemby will always have more impact on the defensive end just because of his size and his elite rim protection.[/QUOTE]

He should in theory but nothing is certain. Draymond's only 6'5.75" barefoot and he's one of the most impactful defenders ever. Victor's off to a good start. We'll see what happens.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14945376]Big wing is definitely what it looks like. Will have to wait to get those wingspan and standing reach measurements though. His arms are really long on film.

But his robustness might be the most underrated element of his physical makeup. He looks really sturdy for a guy who's only 17 and a half. Broad shoulders, wide torso, thick and long limbs. Looks to have a really solid base.

We'll have to see how he physically develops but he may have the build and strength to play some occasional minutes as a small-ball center like Draymond. He grappled well with LeBron at times during the scrimmage. Knocked Jrue off balance several times.[/QUOTE]

That is true, lots of guys at 17 are stick men build still. He’s going to be able to put on more weight lt and it will help him. Although he shouldn’t put too much on and sacrifice lateral quickness.

If he can be a big 3, play some 4, and some small ball 5 on occasions, that would be perfect for him in my opinion.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14945377]Wemby will always have more impact on the defensive end just because of his size and his elite rim protection.[/QUOTE]
Not really Rudy Gobert destroys Draymond in size and Rim Protection but in the playoffs Green is more impactful defensively

Versatile guys like Draymond,Flagg,Gianni's translate better in the playoffs than rim protectors

Not the best angle but I think Cooper's shoulder is a little higher than LeBron's. I think he's a little taller.

[img]https://i.ibb.co/98NymT6/94iz4v.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Manny98;14945387]Not really Rudy Gobert destroys Draymond in size and Rim Protection but in the playoffs Green is more impactful defensively

Versatile guys like Draymond,Flagg,Gianni's translate better in the playoffs than rim protectors[/QUOTE]
What you don't seem to realize is that Wembanyama is versatile. No one wants to be guarded by him regardless of their position. He can't be shot over and you might think you have him beat off the dribble but as soon as you release the ball he's sending it to the backboard or the front row.

We saw Wemby as a 20 year old in his first year in the league become the best defensive player in the league right away, and now we have people saying a 17 year old who doesn't even have the size of Wemby claiming he might surpass him defensively. :lol

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14945392]What you don't seem to realize is that Wembanyama is versatile. [B]No one wants to be guarded by him regardless of their position.[/B] He can't be shot over and you might think you have him beat off the dribble but as soon as you release the ball he's sending it to the backboard or the front row.[/QUOTE]

Go tell that to Sengun :oldlol:

[video=youtube_share;8ZfAgwnrzwc]https://youtu.be/8ZfAgwnrzwc?si=mfExYbgs0tujsQAq[/video]

[QUOTE=Manny98;14945400]Go tell that to Sengun :oldlol:[/QUOTE]He wasn't the primary defender for most of those plays. Who in basketball history hasn't had a player on the opposing team have a big night?

Of course RMWG has to bring up Wemby for some reason and proceed to derail the thread while endlessly arguing about him.

What an incredible moderator. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14945408]He wasn't the primary defender for most of those plays. Who in basketball history hasn't had a player on the opposing team have a big night?[/QUOTE]

Yes he was Sengun was abusing him in the post all night, he's a great defender but him being 7'4 180 pounds presents some flaws where he struggles against certain post scoring bigs who can bully his skinny frame

Cole Aldrich is another guy, like Jokic, who has similar bodily proportions to Cooper regarding relative limb length, clavicle width, and potentially hand size. All three are wide-bodied and have a lower brachial index/longer humerus (upper arm) relative to the radius (lower arm).

Cole Aldrich:

- 6'9" barefoot height
- 7'4.75" wingspan
- 9'2.5" standing reach (adjusted for standardized 1.25" shoes)

1" to 2" smaller version of those measurements would be a great result.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14945409]Of course RMWG has to bring up Wemby for some reason and proceed to derail the thread while endlessly arguing about him.

What an incredible moderator. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]Would you like to see me improve this board?

[QUOTE=Manny98;14945414]Yes he was Sengun was abusing him in the post all night, he's a great defender but him being 7'4 180 pounds presents some flaws where he struggles against certain post scoring bigs who can bully his skinny frame[/QUOTE]
Watch the video you posted. Wembanyama is trying to help on a few plays but is not the primary defender well over half of those possessions.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14945381]He should in theory but nothing is certain. Draymond's only 6'5.75" barefoot and he's one of the most impactful defenders ever. Victor's off to a good start. We'll see what happens.[/QUOTE]

Yeah Draymond has a very good build for defense. Low base with super long arms. Cant get bullied off a spot but can still contest effectively.

I agree Flagg has impressive thiccness for a kid that's 6'8 at 17 years old. But it's not a Draymond center of gravity. And he doesnt have Bam's reach, let alone guys like Yama and Porzingis and Chet. So he's kind of in between.

As others have said, he probably aligns more as a chasedown/help protector, a la Pippen or Kirilenko, rather than a paint-stationed defensive 5. I dont see him being used on defense the way Anthony Davis is.

Often times people assume a high school prospect has tons of room to grow, literally and figuratively. Which is sometimes true. But sometimes they just peak earlier and stay there. Flagg is physically about what Jason Tatum is currently. Which is why Flagg's a more dominant high school player, cuz hes already built like an NBA player.

But that doesnt mean he's necessarily gonna keep progressing until hes the second coming of Wilt. He might just remain at a Jason Tatum level. A quality wing defender in the NBA, but not a Dikembe Mutombo rejection machine.

Cant know until he gets there. But to me he looks like his floor is proportionally a lot higher than his ceiling.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14945417]Watch the video you posted. Wembanyama is trying to help on a few plays but is not the primary defender well over half of those possessions.[/QUOTE]

I watched Sengun manhandle Wemby like he was a little boy on multiple possessions :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14945416]Would you like to see me improve this board?[/QUOTE]

Go shove a teriyaki stick up your asshole, fat boy.

Shawn James:

- 6'7.75" barefoot height
- 7'5" wingspan
- 9'3" standing reach
- 217 pounds

About as impressive measurements as it gets for a guy Cooper's height range.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14945422]Go shove a teriyaki stick up your asshole, fat boy.[/QUOTE]
This request was a bit odd but I honored the first.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14945421]I watched Sengun manhandle Wemby like he was a little boy on multiple possessions :oldlol:[/QUOTE]He scored some buckets but most of it wasn't with Wemby as the main guy. And basically none of it was him muscling Wemby out of the way.

Take a look at 6'10'' Clifford Robinson, playing SF but also PF and event C.

I think Coop is much better on defense, but that kind of long athletic, but yet sturdy, big wing is a good comparison imo.

[video=youtube;NUVw7E2LSWw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUVw7E2LSWw[/video]

Cooper with Sean Stewart, who like Flagg at Duke, is listed at 6'9" and was listed at 6'8" at times in high school. They look more or less the same height when you account for the hair and distance from the camera. Cooper's shoulders are higher but that's also because Sean has a longer neck.

Cooper's stance continues to be wider compared to others. He has that wide body; he reminds me a little of LeBron in that regard.

[IMG]https://www.zagsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Cooper.jpg[/IMG]

In all my time as a fan I've never seen so much discussion about someone's shoulder height and defense for a kid who hasn't played a single game of college basketball to my knowledge.

Anyone thinking this guy is the white KG is like people saying Chet is KD with better defense. Shit needs to calm down, this guy could be a defensive zero for all anyone knows. You know how many guys in NBA history have had his build and athletic ability and were not anything worth noting on defense? A hell of a lot.

This isn't some unicorn 7'5 guy with agility like Wemby where the potential is obvious because it's a unique build of a player. Flagg blends in with basically any big SF/PF in NBA terms.

In all my time as a fan I've never seen so much discussion about someone's shoulder height and defense for a kid who hasn't played a single game of college basketball to my knowledge.

Anyone thinking this guy is the white KG is like people saying Chet is KD with better defense. Shit needs to calm down, this guy could be a defensive zero for all anyone knows. You know how many guys in NBA history have had his build and athletic ability and were not anything worth noting on defense? A hell of a lot.

This isn't some unicorn 7'5 guy with agility like Wemby where the potential is obvious because it's a unique build of a player. Flagg blends in with basically any big SF/PF in NBA terms.

I tried to read your post but that run-on sentence killed it for me. Learn to use periods to improve your syntax. It'll help you get whatever point you're attempting to make across.

[IMG]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14945541]I tried to read your post but that run-on sentence killed it for me. Learn to use periods to improve your syntax. It'll help you get whatever point you're attempting to make across.

[IMG]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:lol

Lebron is 6'8.5'' ish and Coop looks a bit taller. Also he looks same height as Bam.

I'd probably start him at PF.

[QUOTE=Carbine;14945537]In all my time as a fan I've never seen so much discussion about someone's shoulder height and defense for a kid who hasn't played a single game of college basketball to my knowledge.

Anyone thinking this guy is the white KG is like people saying Chet is KD with better defense. Shit needs to calm down, this guy could be a defensive zero for all anyone knows. You know how many guys in NBA history have had his build and athletic ability and were not anything worth noting on defense? A hell of a lot.

This isn't some unicorn 7'5 guy with agility like Wemby where the potential is obvious because it's a unique build of a player. Flagg blends in with basically any big SF/PF in NBA terms.[/QUOTE]

Nah, if you watch him the defense is something else. I don't think there's a possibility that he isn't a big impact player on that end (barring career-impacting injuries).

Free Warriorfan!

[QUOTE=Manny98;14945628]Free Warriorfan![/QUOTE]

This. /Thread.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14945430]This request was a bit odd but I honored the first.[/QUOTE]
:milton

[video=youtube_share;CVgVTqC_3Bw]https://youtu.be/CVgVTqC_3Bw?si=17rzngkvh3RC-Emq[/video]

[video=youtube_share;iPQHgjVvVD8]https://youtu.be/iPQHgjVvVD8?si=VXLr2f8Ls27Y8-x9[/video]