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[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940854]Ah I forgot you are just a troll. Weren't you the guy who initially had Kobe, Shaq, and Lebron outside of the top ten?[/QUOTE]
Lol. Another straw man. I have Kobe outside of the top ten. The other two are in. Nice try.
Here's a question for you: is it better to WIN the finals than to make it to the finals and not win?
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940868]Again this was already debunked. His RATIO of elite games/series is far higher than any other player outside of MJ. So you can pick out his bad games all you want, it doesn't change the fact that he has way more good ones. For every bad game he has, he has 10 good ones.
So yeah you are an idiot. You'll have to come up with something else because everything you've posted in this thread is wrong :lol[/QUOTE]
"debunked"......:roll: Not hardly. Bronie fluffers denying it is hardly "debunking."
You make arbitray claims, that you're repeating from someone else, that the RATIO is better than other players, but you or anyone else have yet to prove it with data. I claimed that Lebron has the most choke jobs of any all time "great." Then I proved it. Then you guys come back and whine about "Bu-bu-but RATIOS!!!!" and the only one who even TRIED to counter that was 1987_Lakers, who then posted about five choke jobs from Larry Bird. Yep, a mere handful.
You guys lose this argument over and over and over. That's ok though. I'll keep setting you guys straight. ;)
[QUOTE=tpols;14940872]Your "medal" rankings are also down right embarrassing as well.
Like... Curry has 1 Gold Medal? Because he didn't win FMVP over Iggy who averaged like 10ppg on the year while Steph was the league MVP?
Duncan's 2007 ring doesn't count as a Gold Medal because Tony Parker won FMVP?
Bird and Magics titles don't count as Gold Medal because Maxwell and Worthy had great Finals series?
Despite being his best championship playoff run ever Kobes 2001 15-1 superstar playoff run doesn't count in this criteria?
:oldlol:
OP, you are a certified clown.[/QUOTE]
Lebron wouldn't even have gotten a gold medal this Olympics if Curry didn't carry him across the finish line. By the way, anyone know where Lebron was in the fourth quarters of the medal games???
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940878]"debunked"......:roll: Not hardly. Bronie fluffers denying it is hardly "debunking."
You make arbitray claims, that you're repeating from someone else, that the RATIO is better than other players, but you or anyone else have yet to prove it with data. I claimed that Lebron has the most choke jobs of any all time "great." Then I proved it. Then you guys come back and whine about "Bu-bu-but RATIOS!!!!" and the only one who even TRIED to counter that was 1987_Lakers, who then posted about five choke jobs from Larry Bird. Yep, a mere handful.
You guys lose this argument over and over and over. That's ok though. I'll keep setting you guys straight. ;)[/QUOTE]
No one denied that Lebron has plenty of bad playoff games, but its literally because he has the MOST playoff games ever played.
Him having 35 bad playoff games out of 287 total games is not a big deal. You could probably find 35 bad playoff games by Kobe who only played 220 total playoff games.
You are just an idiot who doesn't seem to understand. You trying to claim Bird is a better playoff performer than Lebron just shows how dumb you are.
[QUOTE=tpols;14940872]Your "medal" rankings are also down right embarrassing as well.
Like... Curry has 1 Gold Medal? Because he didn't win FMVP over Iggy who averaged like 10ppg on the year while Steph was the league MVP?
Duncan's 2007 ring doesn't count as a Gold Medal because Tony Parker won FMVP?
Bird and Magics titles don't count as Gold Medal because Maxwell and Worthy had great Finals series?
Despite being his best championship playoff run ever Kobes 2001 15-1 superstar playoff run doesn't count in this criteria?
:oldlol:
OP, you are a certified clown.[/QUOTE]
When judging finals on an all-time scale, the FMVP is the key point.
Otherwise we can say something like this -> Scottie Pippen is 6-0 in the finals. He's the goat.
We need to differentiate the best player from those who weren't.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940880]No one denied that Lebron has plenty of bad playoff games, but its literally because he has the MOST playoff games ever played.
[B][SIZE=4]Him having 35 bad playoff games out of 287 total games is not a big deal[/SIZE][/B]. You could probably find 35 bad playoff games by Kobe who only played 220 total playoff games.
You are just an idiot who doesn't seem to understand.[/QUOTE]
Ohhhhhhhhhh yes it is lol. And it's more than 35. I posted them, so feel free to count.
And I have Lebron ranked ahead of Kobe, so if that's who you're using as your benchmark for comparison, it's telling.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940885]Ohhhhhhhhhh yes it is lol. And it's more than 35. I posted them, so feel free to count.
And I have Lebron ranked ahead of Kobe, so if that's who you're using as your benchmark for comparison, it's telling.[/QUOTE]
I included Bird too. Again you are dumb if you think Bird is a better playoff performer than Lebron.
I wouldn't even respond to your trolling if it wasn't so easy to disprove everything you say.
Here is what you are saying.
Lebron - 35 bad games out of 287 total games is worse than Larry Bird having 30 bad games out of 164 playoff games.
You are an idiot.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940886]I included Bird too. Again you are dumb if you think Bird is a better playoff performer than Lebron.
I wouldn't even respond to your trolling if it wasn't so easy to disprove everything you say.
Here is what you are saying.
Lebron - 35 bad games out of 287 total games is worse than Larry Bird having 30 bad games out of 164 playoff games.
You are an idiot.[/QUOTE]
Ok, then show me Larry Bird's 30 choke jobs.
[QUOTE]
[QUOTE=tpols;14940872]Your "medal" rankings are also down right embarrassing as well.
Like... Curry has 1 Gold Medal? Because he didn't win FMVP over Iggy who averaged like 10ppg on the year while Steph was the league MVP?
Duncan's 2007 ring doesn't count as a Gold Medal because Tony Parker won FMVP?
Bird and Magics titles don't count as Gold Medal because Maxwell and Worthy had great Finals series?
Despite being his best championship playoff run ever Kobes 2001 15-1 superstar playoff run doesn't count in this criteria?
:oldlol:
OP, you are a certified clown.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940883][B]When judging finals on an all-time scale, the FMVP is the key point.[/B]
Otherwise we can say something like this -> Scottie Pippen is 6-0 in the finals. He's the goat.
We need to differentiate the best player from those who weren't.[/QUOTE]
No it's absolutely not.
Magic, Bird, Duncan and Curry were all clearly better than Worthy, Maxwell, Parker, and Iggy on the year they won those rings respectively. And 2001 Kobe was easily > 2010 Kobe despite you counting the former as not counting, and the latter as worth Gold.
It's a retarded logic you're employing. Based on your logic Chauncey Billups has as many "Gold Medals" as Curry. :lol
Your criteria is just totally absurd and nonsensical on every level.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940890]Ok, then show me Larry Bird's 30 choke jobs.[/QUOTE]
You consider bad games to be choke jobs. Well, Larry has a ton of bad playoff games :lol.
[QUOTE=tpols;14940900]No it's absolutely not.
Magic, Bird, Duncan and Curry were all clearly better than Worthy, Maxwell, Parker, and Iggy on the year they won those rings respectively. And 2001 Kobe was easily > 2010 Kobe despite you counting the former as not counting, and the latter as worth Gold.
It's a retarded logic you're employing. Based on your logic Chauncey Billups has as many "Gold Medals" as Curry. :lol
Your criteria is just totally absurd and nonsensical on every level.[/QUOTE]
Got it, so you must think Pip and Jordan are equal since they are both 6-0 in the finals.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940890]Ok, then show me Larry Bird's 30 choke jobs.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940906]You consider bad games to be choke jobs. Well, Larry has a ton of bad playoff games :lol.[/QUOTE]
Looks like OP is tapping out. :roll:
To paraphrase a former president: "It's not that Bronie fluffers don't know anything, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940909]Looks like OP is tapping out. :roll:
To paraphrase a former president: "It's not that Bronie fluffers don't know anything, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."[/QUOTE]
This is a team sport. The onus is on the player, as part of his quest for GOAT, to BE in a dynasty and hold it together. Not jump shit every time then repeat the recruitment process. One can lose even with a dynastic team (Bird, Magic, Curry, KD), but that is why MJ's precedence is ridiculous because once he had his team come together, he did not allow themselves to lose. I mean, two 3peats? The bar has been set this way. If this didn't happen, then Magic's could have been the bar.
[QUOTE=Gudo;14940852]When you put yourself in the GOAT debate, there is an inherent high expectation that comes with it. Lebron has played in a number of loaded teams (a lot of which he handpicked), and the benefit of a weak conference. But the ability to play consistently when the stakes are highest (finals), is a huge mark of a great player.[/QUOTE]
Which lot of players did James handpick and just magically put on his team?
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940909]Looks like OP is tapping out. :roll:
To paraphrase a former president: "It's not that Bronie fluffers don't know anything, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."[/QUOTE]
Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.
Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games
Larry: 40 games out of 164 games
Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games :lol. It's just too easy because you are a moron.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940915]Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.
Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games
Larry: 40 games out of 164 games
Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games :lol. It's just too easy because you are a moron.[/QUOTE]
:roll::roll:
Playoff games below 15 game score? Really??
Try again, silly boy. The more you try to weasel your way out of this dumb thread, the worse you make yourself look.
I'll ask one last time. Show us Larry Bird's choke jobs. You know, like I did for Lebron, AKA "LeShrivel."
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940916]:roll::roll:
Playoff games below 15 game score? Really??
Try again, silly boy. The more you try to weasel your way out of this dumb thread, the worse you make yourself look.
I'll ask one last time. Show us Larry Bird's choke jobs. You know, like I did for Lebron, AKA "LeShrivel."[/QUOTE]
Your list of Lebron chokes are literally just you posting stats from bad games. So from what YOU ARE DOING, we can consider games with less than 15 game score by superstars in the playoffs to be bad games. So I just easily proved you wrong. Larry has a way higher frequency of bad games (chokes) in the playoffs (and more chokes overall).
There is literally no reason for me to list them out 1 by 1 for Larry. 40 bad games is 40 bad games. YOU GOT NOTHING BUDDY. Literally everything you claimed is proven false in this thread.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940915]Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.
Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games
Larry: 40 games out of 164 games
Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games :lol. It's just too easy because you are a moron.[/QUOTE]
Yikes. And doesn't Bird have a finals where he had 15 on 40% from the field?
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940917]Your list of Lebron chokes are literally just you posting stats from bad games. So from what YOU ARE DOING, we can consider games with less than 15 game score by superstars in the playoffs to be bad games. So I just easily proved you wrong. Larry has a way higher frequency of bad games (chokes) in the playoffs (and more chokes overall).
There is literally no reason for me to list them out 1 by 1 for Larry. 40 bad games is 40 bad games. YOU GOT NOTHING BUDDY. Literally everything you claimed is proven false in this thread.[/QUOTE]
I put up the data. You failed to. "Literally no reason for me to..."
Meaning you have nothing and you know it.
Full Court - 126
Bronies - 0
By the way, this thread can be considered a choke job. :lol
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940919]I put up the data. You failed to. "Literally no reason for me to..."
Meaning you have nothing and you know it.
Full Court - 126
Bronies - 0
By the way, this thread can be considered a choke job. :lol[/QUOTE]
This is the data you moron...
Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.
Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games
Larry: 40 games out of 164 games
Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games.
Can you read? Seriously, you are acting like a 12 year old.
If you WANT to read them one by one for some reason, here is a link. Just sort by game score little guy... [url]https://www.basketball-reference.com...elog-playoffs/[/url]
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940924]This is the data you moron...
Playoff games below 15 game score for Lebron and Larry.
Lebron: 37 games out of 287 games
Larry: 40 games out of 164 games
Larry has MORE bad games despite playing 123 less playoff games.
Can you read? Seriously, you are acting like a 12 year old.
If you WANT to read them one by one for some reason, here is a link. Just sort by game score little guy... [url]https://www.basketball-reference.com...elog-playoffs/[/url][/QUOTE]
Nice faulty link, genius. :roll:
That aside, I'm just astounded that you would use a single stat, GAME SCORE nonetheless, with no interpretive context, to try to make your case. It makes me wonder if you're actually a Lebron hater who's trying to make Bronie fluffers look bad, or if you're actually that dumb.
So that's what you came up with after all that time? "Bu-bu-bu-but Larry had more games with a game score less than 15!!!! :cry: So Lebron CAN'T be a choker!!!!"
:roll:
You can't make this stuff up.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940939]Nice faulty link, genius. :roll:
That aside, I'm just astounded that you would use a single stat, GAME SCORE nonetheless, with no interpretive context, to try to make your case. It makes me wonder if you're actually a Lebron hater who's trying to make Bronie fluffers look bad, or if you're actually that dumb.
So that's what you came up with after all that time? "Bu-bu-bu-but Larry had more games with a game score less than 15!!!! :cry: So Lebron CAN'T be a choker!!!!"
:roll:
You can't make this stuff up.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01/gamelog-playoffs/[/url]
I defeated your argument so easily. Sort by gamescore and go through the list yourself and see all the chokes/bad games for Bird. You thought Bird was a better playoff performer, but he has twice the rate of chokes as Lebron :roll:
I mean you literally have nothing buddy. You tried to act like Lebron is a playoff choker when he is literally the second best playoff performer of all time behind MJ.
Feel free to enlighten me though. What "criteria" do you want to use to determine chokes? Happy to compare Lebron to anybody using that "criteria" since we know I easily debunked your initial criteria for "chokes".
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940942][url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/birdla01/gamelog-playoffs/[/url]
I defeated your argument so easily. Sort by gamescore and go through the list yourself and see all the chokes/bad games for Bird. You thought Bird was a better playoff performer, but he has twice the rate of chokes as Lebron :roll:
I mean you literally have nothing buddy. You tried to act like Lebron is a playoff choker when he is literally the second best playoff performer of all time behind MJ.
Feel free to enlighten me though. What "criteria" do you want to use to determine chokes? Happy to compare Lebron to anybody using that "criteria" since we know I easily debunked your initial criteria for "chokes".[/QUOTE]
Anyone who bases an argument on a single stat with no context has no clue what they're talking about. When you only look at game score, you're counting games where Bird played less than 20 minutes. I'm sure you didn't realize that, because you don't know how to actually use advanced stats.
:biggums:
You get a C- for effort....
but you still lose.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940945]Anyone who bases an argument on a single stat with no context has no clue what they're talking about. When you only look at game score, you're counting games where Bird played less than 20 minutes. I'm sure you didn't realize that, because you don't know how to actually use advanced stats.
:biggums:
You get a C- for effort....
but you still lose.[/QUOTE]
Gamescore is literally a boxscore summary stat. If a player has a bad game, they are going to have a bad gamescore. Is that too complicated for you? How about you go look up the gamescores of all those Lebron games you posted. There is a high chance they are less than 15 you moron.
Oh by the way, only 2 of the 40 games where Larry posted sub-15 gamescore were 20 minutes or less. The rest of them were between 30-46 minutes per game.
God, it's just too easy to disprove everything you say or every shitty troll post you make.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940947]Gamescore is literally a boxscore summary stat. If a player has a bad game, they are going to have a bad gamescore. Is that too complicated for you? How about you go look up the gamescores of all those Lebron games you posted. There is a high chance they are less than 15 you moron.
Oh by the way, only 2 of the 40 games where Larry posted sub-15 gamescore were 20 minutes or less. The rest of them were between 30-46 minutes per game.
God, it's just too easy to disprove everything you say or every shitty troll post you make.[/QUOTE]
"We can tell what a choke is.....by the GAME SCORE!!!!"
:roll:
And this, folks, is why we make fun of Bronie fluffers. They're just not intelligent people.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940948]"We can tell what a choke is.....by the GAME SCORE!!!!"
:roll:
And this, folks, is why we make fun of Bronie fluffers. They're just not intelligent people.[/QUOTE]
Newsflash, [B]you [/B]were the one claiming Lebron had a bunch of chokes and then 37 out of the 42 "games" you listed were literally just random boxscore numbers, often not even the whole boxscore. Only 5 of them did you try to add any context, and even with those you are cherry picking :roll:
I'm literally using YOUR logic for what a "choke" is, which I then easily disproved all of your statements using the logic YOU gave.
I know you are just trolling but you are legit bad at that too.
By the way, I am still waiting on your "criteria" for what a choke is. You still haven't given me anything except for mostly just random box score stats from Lebron games. I will keep waiting on it.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940951]Newsflash, [B]you [/B]were the one claiming Lebron had a bunch of chokes and then 37 out of the 42 "games" you listed were literally just random boxscore numbers, often not even the whole boxscore. Only 5 of them did you try to add any context, and even with those you are cherry picking :roll:
I'm literally using YOUR logic for what a "choke" is, which I then easily disproved all of your statements using the logic YOU gave.
I know you are just trolling but you are legit bad at that too.
By the way, I am still waiting on your "criteria" for what a choke is. You still haven't given me anything except for mostly just random box score stats from Lebron games. I will keep waiting on it.[/QUOTE]
Lebron has, in fact, the most choke jobs in the history of the sport. And I proved it. All you can come back with is a single advanced stat.
Here's an illustration how dumb it is using a single, context-less stat: Russell Westbrook has more triple doubles than Lebron James. Therefore Westbrook is the better player and should be ranked higher.
See how that works?
:roll:
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940952]Lebron has, in fact, the most choke jobs in the history of the sport. And I proved it. All you can come back with is a single advanced stat.
Here's an illustration how dumb it is using a single, context-less stat: Russell Westbrook has more triple doubles than Lebron James. Therefore Westbrook is the better player and should be ranked higher.
See how that works?
:roll:[/QUOTE]
Still waiting on your "criteria" for a playoff choke. What are these specific "chokes" Lebron has? We need a definition from you.
It's ironic that you made a big fuss about me providing one (less than 15 gamescore), yet you have yet to provide one. Remember, your long list of games for Lebron is mostly just random box score numbers with no additional context or info (37 out of 42 games were random stats).
'
I know you are dumb, but humor me here. I am enjoying this.
[B][SIZE=4]Thread Cliffs:[/SIZE][/B]
LeBron at 39 years old vastly outperforms Jordan did in the olympics when Jordan was in his prime.
1992 international competition was literal dog shit, Jordan stacked his team up to the fullest and Jordan still played like crap.
LeBron gets the Olympics MVP at age 39 while Jordan at 39 was struggling to get a starting job on the crappy wizards team.
More evidence was presented this summer and the verdict is LeBron >>>>> Jordan.
Why is it so hard for people to use context with legitimately anything :lol
Criticizing LeBron's Finals record when he was both balling out and being the underdog in most of them, including to a ridiculous degree in 3-4 of them, was always moronic. As is bringing up 10 Finals appearances without mentioning how weak the conference was for a lot of the years he made it out East.
I also completely disagree with OP's criteria, there are way too many examples of inferior players, even role players, winning FMVP over top 10 caliber players. How you play in the Finals is obviously important, but summing up a 100 game season entirely on the basis of a 4-7 game sample size is ridiculous. Kareem/Bird/Magic/Duncan/Curry all had championship years where they were the clear cut best player on their squads, them losing out on FMVP either due to a fluke sample size or flat out bad judgement by the media is a terrible way to evaluate players.
People continue to put WAY too much stock on team accomplishments to evaluate individual players, when it's how you perform in the playoffs that should always be the most important criteria. I've said it before, but LeBron not winning in '09, '17, or '18 doesn't invalidate how well he played, nor does it mean Duncan in '07 or Curry in '15 played better than he did because their teams won the title.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940953]Still waiting on your "criteria" for a playoff choke. What are these specific "chokes" Lebron has? We need a definition from you.
It's ironic that you made a big fuss about me providing one (less than 15 gamescore), yet you have yet to provide one. Remember, your long list of games for Lebron is mostly just random box score numbers with no additional context or info (37 out of 42 games were random stats).
'
I know you are dumb, but humor me here. I am enjoying this.[/QUOTE]
Lol. I took the time to put an explanation for each game. Go back and read my post. Or would you like me to post it again because it's too hard to find?
And I'm STILL waiting for you to show me just one person who claimed not making the finals is better than making the finals. You claimed there were "millions" of people who said it.
This thread isn't looking great for you.
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmmauk.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F02%2FAnderson-Silva.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=81aad1c2988c6cb5d81d6eeb8a318d25a37d147b0ab830ab63351c541c326ad1&ipo=images[/img]
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940971]Lol. I took the time to put an explanation for each game. Go back and read my post. Or would you like me to post it again because it's too hard to find?
And I'm STILL waiting for you to show me just one person who claimed not making the finals is better than making the finals. You claimed there were "millions" of people who said it.
This thread isn't looking great for you.
[/QUOTE]
[B]Where is your explanation for each game?[/B] I see 5 "attempts" at context our of 42 attempts. Looks like your the one choking here :roll:
2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.
Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.
Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.
2009 game 3 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.
2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.
2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.
Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.
Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.
Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.
Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.
2013 game 2 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.
2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.
2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.
Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.
2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.
Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.
2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.
Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.
Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.
Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.
Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.
2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.
Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.
2023 game 5 against Memphis. 15 points on 29% shooting. 1-9 from three. LOSS.
Game 1 against Golden State. 22 points on 38% shooting. 1-8 from three.
Game 2 against Denver. 22 points. 0-6 from three. LOSS.
Game 4 against Denver. Wasted multiple possessions in 4th quarter, missed key shots, and blew the game-tying shot in the last possession. SWEPT.
2024 game 1 against Denver. 0 points in the fourth quarter of a close game. Actually, he had two points, but that was from an uncontested layup in the final minute of the game after Denver had already closed the game out. LOSS
Game 2 against Denver. The game is tied and the Lakers have the final possession. Instead of running the clock down, Lebron clanks a low-IQ three point shot, leaving Denver with plenty of time for a final possession. Murray, who is way more clutch than Lebron, makes the buzzer beater. LOSS.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14940970]Why is it so hard for people to use context with legitimately anything :lol
Criticizing LeBron's Finals record when he was both balling out and being the underdog in most of them, including to a ridiculous degree in 3-4 of them, was always moronic. As is bringing up 10 Finals appearances without mentioning how weak the conference was for a lot of the years he made it out East.
I also completely disagree with OP's criteria, there are way too many examples of inferior players, even role players, winning FMVP over top 10 caliber players. How you play in the Finals is obviously important, but summing up a 100 game season entirely on the basis of a 4-7 game sample size is ridiculous. Kareem/Bird/Magic/Duncan/Curry all had championship years where they were the clear cut best player on their squads, them losing out on FMVP either due to a fluke sample size or flat out bad judgement by the media is a terrible way to evaluate players.
People continue to put WAY too much stock on team accomplishments to evaluate individual players, when it's how you perform in the playoffs that should always be the most important criteria. I've said it before, but LeBron not winning in '09, '17, or '18 doesn't invalidate how well he played, nor does it mean Duncan in '07 or Curry in '15 played better than he did because their teams won the title.[/QUOTE]
The whole point is just to show that claiming finals losses are "bad" is a ridiculous claim. Even if you are trying to compare to Jordan, it's still a bad argument because Jordan had plenty of years where he never even made the finals.
You agree with my core claim, even if my gold medal qualification (FMVP) might have a few detractors.
What if jordan is the one who had a losing record in the finals? It's likely that he would be treated much the very same way. :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14940983][B]Where is your explanation for each game?[/B] I see 5 "attempts" at context our of 42 attempts. Looks like your the one choking here :roll:
2007 game 1 against Detroit. 10 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 2 against Detroit. 19 points on 37% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against the Spurs. 14 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
2008 game 1 against Boston. 12 points and 10 turnovers on 11% shooting. 0/6 from three. LOSS.
Game 2 against Boston. 21 points on 25% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Boston. 21 points on 31% shooting.
Game 4 against Boston. 21 points on 35% shooting.
2009 game 3 against Orlando. He scored 41 points, but on absolutely horrendous efficiency. 39% shooting and 1/8 from three. LOSS. Someone should have made him stop shooting.
2010 game 5 against Boston. 15 points on 21% shooting!!! LOSS. The series was tied 2-2 until that game. That Lebron choke put the Cavs down 3-2, and they went on to lose the series.
2011 game 1 against Philadelphia. 21 points on 29% shooting.
Game 5 against Philadelphia. 16 points on 39% shooting.
Game 3 against Boston. 15 points on 38% shooting. LOSS.
Game 1 against Chicago. 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Finals against Dallas. Most epic choke job of all time. Game 3, 17 points.
Game 4, 8 points on 27% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5, 17 points. LOSS.
Game 6, 21 points and 6 turnovers. LOSS.
2013 game 2 against San Antonio. 17 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against San Antonio, 15 points on 33% shooting. LOSS.
Game 5 against San Antonio, 25 points on 36% shooting. LOSS.
2014 game 5 against Indiana. 7 points on 20% shooting. Whooaaaaaaaa! LOSS.
2015 game 1 against Chicago. 19 points on 41% shooting. LOSS.
Game 6 against Chicago. 15 points on 30% shooting.
Game 4 against Golden State. 20 points on 32% shooting.
2016 game 3 against Detroit. 20 points on 33% shooting.
Game 2 against Golden State. 19 points on 42% shooting. LOSS.
2017 game 3 against Boston. 11 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2018 game 1 against Indiana. 24 points on 41% shooting. 0% from three. LOSS.
Game 1 against Boston. 15 points on 31% shooting. LOSS.
2020 game 2 against Portland. 10 points on 36% shooting.
Game 1 against Houston. 20 points. LOSS.
Game 4 against Houston. 16 points on 41% shooting.
Game 1 against Denver. 15 points.
2021 game 1 against Phoenix. 18 points on 46% shooting. LOSS.
Game 3 against Phoenix. 21 points and 7 turnovers on 47% shooting.
Game 6 against Phoenix. 29 points on 11/26 shooting. ELIMINATION.
2023 game 5 against Memphis. 15 points on 29% shooting. 1-9 from three. LOSS.
Game 1 against Golden State. 22 points on 38% shooting. 1-8 from three.
Game 2 against Denver. 22 points. 0-6 from three. LOSS.
Game 4 against Denver. Wasted multiple possessions in 4th quarter, missed key shots, and blew the game-tying shot in the last possession. SWEPT.
2024 game 1 against Denver. 0 points in the fourth quarter of a close game. Actually, he had two points, but that was from an uncontested layup in the final minute of the game after Denver had already closed the game out. LOSS
Game 2 against Denver. The game is tied and the Lakers have the final possession. Instead of running the clock down, Lebron clanks a low-IQ three point shot, leaving Denver with plenty of time for a final possession. Murray, who is way more clutch than Lebron, makes the buzzer beater. LOSS.[/QUOTE]
8 points on 27% shooting isn't an "explanation" to this guy.^
:lol Can't make this stuff up.
[QUOTE=Full Court;14940992]8 points on 27% shooting isn't an "explanation" to this guy.^
:lol Can't make this stuff up.[/QUOTE]
No wonder you were banned. I sent you a list of Bird's bad games, with full boxscores (more than what you provided) and you claimed there was no "context", yet your weak attempts in your Lebron list have less context :roll:
Just go home bro, your done. I proved Larry has more chokes than Lebron while playing over 100 less playoff games.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14941074]No wonder you were banned. I sent you a list of Bird's bad games, with full boxscores (more than what you provided) and you claimed there was no "context", yet your weak attempts in your Lebron list have less context :roll:
Just go home bro, your done. I proved Larry has more chokes than Lebron while playing over 100 less playoff games.[/QUOTE]
lol
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14941074]No wonder you were banned. I sent you a list of Bird's bad games, with full boxscores (more than what you provided) and you claimed there was no "context", yet your weak attempts in your Lebron list have less context :roll:
Just go home bro, your done. I proved Larry has more chokes than Lebron while playing over 100 less playoff games.[/QUOTE]
Lebron had plenty of bad games that I didn't list as chokes. That's why I took the time to explain each one to you.
But apparently you can't see the difference.
"GamescorE!!!!!!!!"
:roll:
:biggums:
So LeBron is a superior playoff performer vs Larry Bird.... And Larry still wiped the floor with Jordan in the playoffs and used Jordan as a toilet rag.
Jordan did not win 1 playoff game vs Larry Bird. Not 1. Can the so called "goat" win just 1 playoff game vs Larry Bird?
[QUOTE=8Ball;14941078]So LeBron is a superior playoff performer vs Larry Bird.... And Larry still wiped the floor with Jordan in the playoffs and used Jordan as a toilet rag.
Jordan did not win 1 playoff game vs Larry Bird. Not 1.[/QUOTE]
After 25 years....
Jordan is still the consensus GOAT.
:lebronamazed:
Read it and weep. :lol
Hey, rememeber that time you thought that telling everyone that you rented a 1,300 square foot apartment was going to impress them? :roll: