Lebron from 2016-2018

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14966722]No player in his 15 season, coming off 7 consecutive Finals (6 consecutive 1st option) appearances, is still considered to be in their prime.

96-98 is still considered MJ's prime to you?[/QUOTE]
Jordan was still in his prime those years, he was still the BITW, but he was obviously no longer at his peak, which was roughly '88-'93.

Are you actually claiming a guy who averaged 34/9/9 through the Finals wasn't in his prime :lol You think those arbitrary numbers offset GOAT tier production.

I love how OP puts out a dumb post and everyone just gets reeled into it.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14966722]No player in his 15 season, coming off 7 consecutive Finals (6 consecutive 1st option) appearances, is still considered to be in their prime.

96-98 is still considered MJ's prime to you?[/QUOTE]

Lebron came into the NBA out of high school as a teenager so it was really like his 12th season relative to MJ who went to UNC for college.

Lebron does have better longevity though. In Jordan's era all you could really get was the basic steroids that would get you bodybuilder jacked which isn't great for a speed sport like basketball, but nowadays the game is elevated.

Lebron has access to a superior medical team and regiment than Jordan had. He's basically like a basketball Frankenstein. Which I have no problem with.

If a team of doctors told me they could give me procedures to be super strong and fit for longer why wouldn't I do it? Lebrons not buying anabolics from gym bros off the street. He's got scientists behind him.

And witnessing peak performance is interesting so I'm not against it.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14966726]Jordan was still in his prime those years, he was still the BITW, but he was obviously no longer at his peak, which was roughly '88-'93.

Are you actually claiming a guy who averaged 34/9/9 through the Finals wasn't in his prime :lol You think those arbitrary numbers offset GOAT tier production.[/QUOTE]
Still being BITW was due to era and the time off he took. Too me, there's very little difference between peak and prime. They're basically the same thing. When you're considered to be in your prime playing shape, you're considered being the best version of yourself.

What those numbers by LeBron does is screams he's the GOAT if he's going to be considered in his prime at the end of his 15th consecutive season and 7th consecutive Finals appearance.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14966736]Still being BITW was due to era and the time off he took. [B]Too me, there's very little difference between peak and prime.[/B] They're basically the same thing. When you're considered to be in your prime playing shape, you're considered being the best version of yourself.

What those numbers by LeBron does is screams he's the GOAT if he's going to be considered in his prime at the end of his 15th consecutive season and 7th consecutive Finals appearance.[/QUOTE]
Hard disagree here, there's a clear difference in performance for guys like Shaq & Hakeem during their peak years as opposed to other prime years. 2000 Shaq was simply a different animal than the 90's version.

And sure, LeBron being great for so long, in addition to all of his accomplishments, give him a valid argument for GOAT.

[img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-14-2024/9we3G6.gif[/img]



[QUOTE=Lebron23;14966491]Put up better stats than 1996-1998 Michael Jordan in the NBA finals but he lost to a much better team than the teams Jordan face in the finals[/QUOTE]


The 2016 Cavs were the only team in the league with 3 franchise players, while every other team only had 1, so the Cavs were given preseason favorite status and expected to win the title.

Unfortunately, the Cavs fell to underdog by the time the Finals arrived due to a vastly underachieving regular season of 57 wins, despite having a "dream team" roster that historically gets 65+ wins, if we use the 86' Celtics or 87' Lakers as comparisons.. Or if you think that's unfair, then the 07' Mavs or 09' Lakers, who clearly had much [I]less[/I] talent... The professional statisticians (above) back this idea that the 15' and 16' Cavs were among the most stacked rosters of all-time.

In the Finals, Lebron averaged 24 and 6 TO's to get a 1-3 deficit despite having 2 extra franchise players compared to Curry, the preseason favorite, and the unprecedented help of a sidekick outplaying the current MVP.

Ultimately, this was a lucky title that the Cavs weren't supposed to win if Silver doesn't interfere and Bogut/Iggy don't get hurt late in the series.. The Warriors had JUST ENOUGH gas in the tank to win 73 and the title, so the Draymond suspension cut off a well-running engine - there's no way to get it back and running in time.





[QUOTE=Lebron23;14966491]Put up better stats than 1996-1998 Michael Jordan in the NBA finals but he lost to a much better team than the teams Jordan face in the finals[/QUOTE]


Jordan was already unbeatable with just 1 star teammate, so he wouldn't lose to [I]any[/I] team with 2 star teammates..

Let the historical record do the talking:

Jordan's only losses were with bad teams to great teams, while Lebron's losses were with great teams to bad teams... Specifically, Jordan's only losses were with rookie teams and low seeds to [I]1 or 2-seeded opponents[/I], while Lebron lost with super-teams (11') or 1-seeded organic juggernauts (10') to [I]3 and 4 seeded opponents[/I].

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14966741]Hard disagree here, there's a clear difference in performance for guys like Shaq & Hakeem during their peak years as opposed to other prime years. 2000 Shaq was simply a different animal than the 90's version.

And sure, LeBron being great for so long, in addition to all of his accomplishments, give him a valid argument for GOAT.[/QUOTE]

The most choke jobs of all time, to include the WORST choke job of all time in 2011, destroy any reasonable case for GOAT. Not even close.

GOATs don't get outplayed by Jason Terry.

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966750]The most choke jobs of all time[/QUOTE]
The thread's about LeBron, not Wilt.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14966751]The thread's about LeBron, not Wilt.[/QUOTE]

Nice try. :lol

Oh, just curious. Did Wilt ever get outplayed by Jason Terry in a finals series?

There's a reason Jordan's still consensus GOAT despite the recency bias and media hype. Sucks to be a Bronie fluffer. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966752]Nice try. :lol

Oh, just curious. Did Wilt ever get outplayed by Jason Terry in a finals series?

There's a reason Jordan's still consensus GOAT despite the recency bias and media hype. Sucks to be a Bronie fluffer. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Wilt was out scored by Don Nelson in a Finals

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14966757]Wilt was out scored by Don Nelson in a Finals[/QUOTE]

:lol


Kobe was outscored by Austin Croshere in a Finals

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14966757]Wilt was out scored by Don Nelson in a Finals[/QUOTE]

Don Nelson? The Hall of Famer?? You don't say!!!!
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fgifdb.com%2Fimages%2Ffile%2Fthe-wire-drama-wee-bey-brice-realization-reaction-14dv0uw0gurm1xef.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=cb0c793752329de2b2216a40147477bc008f75c0f5cf97ae15fff854ea2e7309&ipo=images[/img]

The desperate measures you Bronies take to try to salvage his legacy is truly comical. :roll:

Check this out, homie:
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.aIvXSAFKsmWWqdJjcVDO2AHaFm%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=bd0e76b12303e58ec22ec5c998ce9d5c0ae8f1e9bb56a8826582a291b0892ab6&ipo=images[/img]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14966757]Wilt was out scored by Don Nelson in a Finals[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the immortal Larry Seigfried & Johnny Egan.

What's funny is Wilt's career Finals ppg average was nearly identical to what LeBron averaged in 2011 :lol

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966766]Don Nelson? The Hall of Famer?? You don't say!!!!
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fgifdb.com%2Fimages%2Ffile%2Fthe-wire-drama-wee-bey-brice-realization-reaction-14dv0uw0gurm1xef.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=cb0c793752329de2b2216a40147477bc008f75c0f5cf97ae15fff854ea2e7309&ipo=images[/img]

The desperate measures you Bronies take to try to salvage his legacy is truly comical. :roll:

Check this out, homie:
[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.aIvXSAFKsmWWqdJjcVDO2AHaFm%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=bd0e76b12303e58ec22ec5c998ce9d5c0ae8f1e9bb56a8826582a291b0892ab6&ipo=images[/img][/QUOTE]
Don Nelson is in the HOF as a coach. This is like saying the Knicks were stacked in the 70s because they had Phil Jackson.

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966766]Don Nelson? The Hall of Famer?? You don't say!!!!
[/QUOTE]

Oof lol

[QUOTE=RRR3;14966770]Don Nelson is in the HOF as a coach. This is like saying the Knicks were stacked in the 70s because they had Phil Jackson.[/QUOTE]

Incidentally, nobody is out there claiming Wilt is the GOAT. Funny thing is though, he actually has a better case for it that LeShrivel does.

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966777]Incidentally, nobody is out there claiming Wilt is the GOAT. Funny thing is though, he actually has a better case for it that LeShrivel does.[/QUOTE]

Wilt is one of those players that change the game. Lebron simply benefits from it and yet him and cronies still have the gall to shit on players of the past.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14966772]Oof lol[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14966751]The thread's about LeBron, not Wilt.[/QUOTE]
:roll:

[QUOTE=Axe;14966804]:roll:[/QUOTE]

I KNEW that talking about Lebron getting sonned by Jason Terry would send this autistic idiot into a bitch fit. :roll:


I must be psychic.

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fuproxx.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F02%2Froll-safe-meme-kayode-ewumi_bbc-three.jpg%3Fw%3D650&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=35bbaf19754b86f6627a0360133a3334f9a11d3520fd617ad30e0a24c9d4ece8&ipo=images[/img]

[QUOTE=3ba11;14966747][img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-14-2024/9we3G6.gif[/img]






The 2016 Cavs were the only team in the league with 3 franchise players, while every other team only had 1, so the Cavs were given preseason favorite status and expected to win the title.

Unfortunately, the Cavs fell to underdog by the time the Finals arrived due to a vastly underachieving regular season of 57 wins, despite having a "dream team" roster that historically gets 65+ wins, if we use the 86' Celtics or 87' Lakers as comparisons.. Or if you think that's unfair, then the 07' Mavs or 09' Lakers, who clearly had much [I]less[/I] talent... The professional statisticians (above) back this idea that the 15' and 16' Cavs were among the most stacked rosters of all-time.

In the Finals, Lebron averaged 24 and 6 TO's to get a 1-3 deficit despite having 2 extra franchise players compared to Curry, the preseason favorite, and the unprecedented help of a sidekick outplaying the current MVP.

Ultimately, this was a lucky title that the Cavs weren't supposed to win if Silver doesn't interfere and Bogut/Iggy don't get hurt late in the series.. The Warriors had JUST ENOUGH gas in the tank to win 73 and the title, so the Draymond suspension cut off a well-running engine - there's no way to get it back and running in time.








Jordan was already unbeatable with just 1 star teammate, so he wouldn't lose to [I]any[/I] team with 2 star teammates..

Let the historical record do the talking:

Jordan's only losses were with bad teams to great teams, while Lebron's losses were with great teams to bad teams... Specifically, Jordan's only losses were with rookie teams and low seeds to [I]1 or 2-seeded opponents[/I], while Lebron lost with super-teams (11') or 1-seeded organic juggernauts (10') to [I]3 and 4 seeded opponents[/I].[/QUOTE]
Kyle rittenhouse.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14966768]Don't forget the immortal [B]Larry Seigfried & Johnny Egan.[/B]

What's funny is Wilt's career Finals ppg average was nearly identical to what LeBron averaged in 2011 :lol[/QUOTE]

Two legends in the game. I'm hoping Kblaze can drop by and enamor us with tales of their forgotten past glory. Its so important to remember the pioneers.

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966766]Don Nelson? The Hall of Famer?? You don't say!!!![/QUOTE]


:roll:

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14966822]:roll:[/QUOTE]

I know, right? Keeping in mind, that 87_Lakers is the same guy who didn't know Sabonis was an all star. :roll:

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14966822]:roll:[/QUOTE]

He really thought Don Nelson made the hall of fame for his playing career. :roll:

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966823]I know, right? Keeping in mind, that 87_Lakers is the same guy who didn't know Sabonis was an all star. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Oh, and he thought that Tom Brady had the most choke jobs in NBA history. :roll:

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fhealthygeorge.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F03%2FTom-Goofy-Brady.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4cc4c17c14bb9a311170269706a2b9005890fda77e5c408b22e45a8acd18ba3e&ipo=images[/img]


And I guess that genius doesn't realize that Nelson's HOF entry covers his entire career as a player and coach. :confusedshrug:

Must suck to lose time and time again.

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966831]Oh, and he thought that Tom Brady had the most choke jobs in NBA history. :roll:

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fhealthygeorge.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F03%2FTom-Goofy-Brady.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=4cc4c17c14bb9a311170269706a2b9005890fda77e5c408b22e45a8acd18ba3e&ipo=images[/img]


And I guess that genius doesn't realize that Nelson's HOF entry covers his entire career as a player and coach. :confusedshrug:

Must suck to lose time and time again.[/QUOTE]
No his HOF entry is specifically for his coaching career. He went in the coach category. If it was for both he would have gone in the contributor category or been inducted twice as a coach and a player. You quite literally don’t know what you’re talking about.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14966833]No his HOF entry is specifically for his coaching career. He went in the coach category. If it was for both he would have gone in the contributor category or been inducted twice as a coach and a player. You quite literally don’t know what you’re talking about.[/QUOTE]

And you literally can't that the fact that your hero LeShrivel got outplayed and sonned by Jason Terry. No amount of "Don Nelson" deflection can change that.

:lebroncry:

[IMG]https://basketballmuseumofillinois.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Don_Nelson2.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14966847][IMG]https://basketballmuseumofillinois.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Don_Nelson2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Rage and fume all you want, but Lebron STILL got Jason Terry'd. :roll:

Worst choke job OF ALL TIME.

Imagine having that guy as your GOAT. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Full Court;14966852]Rage and fume all you want, but Lebron STILL got Jason Terry'd. :roll:

Worst choke job OF ALL TIME.

Imagine having that guy as your GOAT. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Quite the meltdown you are having.

[IMG]https://a57.foxnews.com/media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove/694940094001/2019/02/22/896/500/694940094001_6005711012001_6005711239001-vs.jpg?ve=1&tl=1[/IMG]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14966856]Quite the meltdown you are having.

[IMG]https://a57.foxnews.com/media2.foxnews.com/BrightCove/694940094001/2019/02/22/896/500/694940094001_6005711012001_6005711239001-vs.jpg?ve=1&tl=1[/IMG][/QUOTE]

^Trying to do damage control because he got destroyed YET AGAIN by Full Court. :roll:

Serious question for you. Who's a bigger choker? Lebron in the NBA, or you on ISH. :lol

:lebroncry:

Imagine getting outscored by this guy.

[video=youtube;MBP-FAjxzNQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBP-FAjxzNQ[/video]

Full Court: Lebron, AKA LeShrivel, has the most choke jobs in the history of the sport. [shows documented proof]

1987_Dudley: Bu-bu-bu-bu-bu-bu TOM BRADY!!! Bu-bu-bu-but DON NELSON!!!





Full Court: Jordan is an entire tier above Lebron.

1987_Dudley: Bu-bu-bu-but WILT CHAMBERLAIN.


:roll: Utter desperation.

The problem with Lebron in 2017 and especially 2018 is his inconsistent defense. He gave a lot of extra impact he produced on offense back on the defensive end. Not that I blame him because he carried a huge offensive load but it did come at a price. Overall I don't think his impact in 2018 surpassed that in say 2016. And the impact stats like RAPM, EPM, RAPTOR etc. agree. In fact, I'm pretty confident saying 2016 > 2018.

[QUOTE=dankok8;14966883]The problem with Lebron in 2017 and especially 2018 is his inconsistent defense. He gave a lot of extra impact he produced on offense back on the defensive end. Not that I blame him because he carried a huge offensive load but it did come at a price. Overall I don't think his impact in 2018 surpassed that in say 2016. And the impact stats like RAPM, EPM, RAPTOR etc. agree. In fact, I'm pretty confident saying 2016 > 2018.[/QUOTE]

Yeah his defensive effort has been more or less picking his spots all seasons beyond 2016. He still has the elite ability but I beleive it was either an adjustment to keep his motor high on the other end as he aged, or a middle finger to not getting as recognized for his peak defensive ability as he wanted.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14966969]Yeah his defensive effort has been more or less picking his spots all seasons beyond 2016. He still has the elite ability but I beleive it was either an adjustment to keep his motor high on the other end as he aged, or a middle finger to not getting as recognized for his peak defensive ability as he wanted.[/QUOTE]

So, tantrum because he did not get the recognition that he wanted? And this is supposed to be an good trait?

Can't compare things that happened in an era with a shortened 3-point line. Sucks because MJ probably is the best player ever, but the NBA 94-99 was so comically weak on talent, team building, and shooting that it's just a clearly inferior era. There is no way to directly know what 96-98 MJ would do in 2016-2018 :lol.

Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era and that's really the only fact we have here. MJ was the GOAT in the previous era.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14966992]Can't compare things that happened in an era with a shortened 3-point line. Sucks because MJ probably is the best player ever, but the NBA 94-99 was so comically weak on talent, team building, and shooting that it's just a clearly inferior era. There is no way to directly know what 96-98 MJ would do in 2016-2018 :lol.

Lebron is the GOAT of the modern era and that's really the only fact we have here. MJ was the GOAT in the previous era.[/QUOTE]


1996 to 1998 was a very competitive era. 1994 took a dive only because MJ retired pretty much. 1999 as well.

The superstar talent from '96 - '98 was super elite. Just looking at the All NBA teams you had prime:

MJ
Hakeem
Robinson
Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Reggie
Clyde
Penny
Payton
Kemp
Ewing
Zo
Grant Hill
Mutumbo

etc.

The only difference was the role players couldn't shoot 3s which cratered their efficiency compared to today's role player 3pt spam, and provided less spacing.

Teams today are better but stars really... aren't.

[QUOTE=tpols;14966996]1996 to 1998 was a very competitive era. 1994 took a dive only because MJ retired pretty much. 1999 as well.

The superstar talent from '96 - '98 was super elite. Just looking at the All NBA teams you had prime:

MJ
Hakeem
Robinson
Barkley
Malone
Stockton
Reggie
Clyde
Penny
Payton
Kemp
Ewing
Zo
Grant Hill
Mutumbo

etc.

The only difference was the role players couldn't shoot 3s which cratered their efficiency compared to today's role player 3pt spam, and provided less spacing.

Teams today are better but stars really... aren't.[/QUOTE]
So many of those guys were at the very tail end of their primes by the late 90's or completely out of it by '98

Hakeem, Robinson, Barkley, Clyde, Ewing were all unquestionably on the downslope of their careers by then. The late 90's honestly was a very weak era, we don't have to pretend otherwise because it involved Jordan :lol