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[QUOTE=tpols;14969290]This is actually pretty awesome to see as a player hater myself. We all hope Westbrook can be the best he can be and he's doing it.[/QUOTE]
just think. You were probably right in the middle of writing a post to hate on him while he was in route to your boy Reeves house with some broccoli cheddar soup and a bottle of patron so he’d feel better while he was sick.
I never hated on him as a person. Except some of that fruity outfits he used to wear. But does seem like a good person which matters more. The NBA GOAT is one of the biggest assholes ever so being a nice guy doesn't necessarily translate or have anything to do with what happens on the court.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14969289]this dude is out here as the MVP hanging out with rookies and g leaguers Getting everybody breakfast working on everyone’s game trying to make sure they last in the league and making personal house calls to check on people and meet their kids and hang out. He’s handing thousands of dollars to housekeepers and writing personalized handwritten notes to thank people.
This is an unusually thoughtful and nice person Even for every day life. For people used to dealing with arrogant ass athletes? He must be a tremendous breath of fresh air.
Maybe players just like the guy because he’s a likable guy?[/QUOTE]
When the Nuggets/Spurs played recently they were doing one of those fan games during timeout. In this case it was a shooting competition between 2 little girls. So you look at the one basket and the girl has some lady rebounding for her, probably just a regular employee. Then you look across the court and you see the other girl has freaking RUSSELL WESTBROOK rebounding for her. And when the buzzer sounded Westbrook starts heading to the free throw line to give his girl a high-five, but she had already turned around and was running to halfcourt to get the prize from the announcer haha. The fact that he was the only player out there suggests this fan engagement was purely his decision so it was pretty cool to see.
[QUOTE=tpols;14969292]I never hated on him as a person. Except some of that fruity outfits he used to wear. But does seem like a good person which matters more. The NBA GOAT is one of the biggest assholes ever so being a nice guy doesn't necessarily translate or have anything to do with what happens on the court.[/QUOTE]
thing is you can’t really go by a goat standard because you’re talking about five or six people out of thousands. The personality of your teammates is absolutely a chemistry issue. Is easily dismissed due to the inevitable failure that comes with sports. Every player of every variety is likely to fail, almost all the time under any circumstances. So we just attach the traits we don’t like to the failure and ignore the failure Of people without those traits, even though the bottom line is the same.
I think it counts for some of the separation between how players and fans see these things.
I think players just want a positive working environment and they factor that in more than fans ever will because fans don’t give a shit if players like coming to work or not. The fans all of them are rich, so they better get over it. But among a group of people who are all rich, they are really different priorities.
I can see wanting to play with somebody who seems genuinely interested in the well-being of all those around him more than someone you consider an asshole But might help your company in a professional capacity.
A lot of these people don’t care about their teams anymore than we care about our jobs. And that’s ultimately what it is even if we don’t choose to see it that way. It’s a job and people want to be around coworkers they like.
It may not be the biggest priority, but it’s somewhere in a prominent spot on the list.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14969289]Also possible….Jokic like most everyone else realized Russ is maybe the most beloved teammate in the nba. People think I’m exaggerating when I say that, but I don’t think I am. It crosses all barriers and play styles. People in the NBA ****ing love Russell Westbrook fans almost universally don’t understand why.
[/QUOTE]
So if his teammates love him and that's what counts, why hasnt he lasted more than a year or two on every team he's been with since the Thunder? Seems everywhere he goes theyre ready to move on from him fairly quickly after he arrives.
Jokic doesnt strike me as someone who makes a player request to management because he needs a friend. Or to have someone in the locker room to give him words of affirmation. He obviously saw some way Westbrook would make sense for the Nuggets on the court, which is impressive prescience considering everywhere else he's been lately has been a disaster.
I think he chose to leave Washington because he had a chance to play in his hometown. Then, salary and a poor fit were the issue for the Lakers. He fit really well with the Clippers until Harden arrived and bumped him to the bench. I'm not sure what happened with LAC but either they didn't want him or he sought a greater opportunity in Denver.
Either way, he's on the perfect team, playing with the one player who can get the most out of him. Nobody optimizes Westbrook on [B]AND[/B] off the ball like Jokic can. And that's why he's averaging 14 points, 7 rebounds, 8.5 assists, and 2 steals on 60% TS (105 TS+) over 15 games (12-3 W/L) as a starter with Jokic.
[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14969337]So if his teammates love him and that's what counts, why hasnt he lasted more than a year or two on every team he's been with since the Thunder? Seems everywhere he goes theyre ready to move on from him fairly quickly after he arrives.
Jokic doesnt strike me as someone who makes a player request to management because he needs a friend. Or to have someone in the locker room to give him words of affirmation. He obviously saw some way Westbrook would make sense for the Nuggets on the court, which is impressive prescience considering everywhere else he's been lately has been a disaster.[/QUOTE]
He’s been involved in nothing worth calling a disaster. The clippers going out early in the playoffs two years isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Clippers. The lakers winning 33 while Lebron and Davis miss almost 70 games combined isn’t a disaster. It’s the reasonable outcome when the team is top heavy and injured and a play in team either way. The rockets losing in the second round as a 4 seed isn’t a disaster. They lost in the second round as a third seed the year before. The wizards making the playoffs as an pretender isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Wizards. Denver definitely isn’t a disaster so far either. But if they lose to another team that isn’t even legit themselves he will get blamed even though they did exactly that last year.
This is exactly my issue. Rewriting standards to manufacture more negativity than the results justify.
As I said he hasn’t even been on as many teams as Chris Paul. But apparently his play style and personality is why. Hell they got traded for each other.
One apparently an outcast the other the point god.
Its all just made up as we go along.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14969367]He’s been involved in nothing worth calling a disaster. The clippers going out early in the playoffs two years isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Clippers. The lakers winning 33 while Lebron and Davis miss almost 70 games combined isn’t a disaster. It’s the reasonable outcome when the team is top heavy and injured and a play in team either way. The rockets losing in the second round as a 4 seed isn’t a disaster. They lost in the second round as a third seed the year before. The wizards making the playoffs as an pretender isn’t a disaster. It’s being the Wizards. Denver definitely isn’t a disaster so far either. But if they lose to another team that isn’t even legit themselves he will get blamed even though they did exactly that last year.
This is exactly my issue. Rewriting standards to manufacture more negativity than the results justify.
As I said he hasn’t even been on as many teams as Chris Paul. But apparently his play style and personality is why. Hell they got traded for each other.
One apparently an outcast the other the point god.
Its all just made up as we go along.[/QUOTE]
You were just the guy in another thread saying dont equate the player with the results. Now thats what youre doing.
Im saying Westbrook's PLAY was a disaster when it counted. Nobody in Houston thought "this worked well" and thats why they traded him. Thats why the Lakers specifically ditched him without making any secret of the fact they considered the signing a mistake, and not ditching every other player involved in the result.
He was dropping 3-17 games in the playoffs for the Clippers last year and despite losing PG and not having Kawhi either to start this season, they offered him no role/contract for this year. If it wasnt for Jokic hes probably out of the league.
So, youre clearly sterilizing the recent history to protect Westbrook for whatever reason.
You’re the one talking about disasters. If a disaster had the same results as non disasters you probably need a different word.
What I was talking about in the topic you mentioned(I thought it was this one) is exactly the issue.
Youre talking about disasters when you don’t…really…know what you’re talking about. Just another limited info fan trying to attribute negative results where you think they go based on your limited understanding of what causes outcomes.
Dudes been in the nba for 17 years. Hes played more games than Mutombo and Ewing. He should have been gone already if the people who mattered saw things the way you do. He will eventually be out of the league after playing much much longer than plenty of dissimilar players the league let go of before they wanted it.
But no doubt whenever that day comes you’ll rewrite standards to take a victory lap as if it isn’t just…time for someone to retire from sports.
That guy doesn’t need protecting. Hes gonna retire a first ballot hall of famer who happens to also be among the most beloved teammates in memory.
You having a problem is of little consequence. Just fan noise. Nothing about his career suggests any lack of respect not reflected in the last stages of a bunch of legends you’re content to ignore.
Here's what I said back in July 2024 when Westbrook officially signed with Denver. The thread here was deleted but I made the exact same post on RealGM. I'm calling this a W for me. The only thing I got wrong was Russ working well with the bench.
[QUOTE]July 19th, 2024
I can see it working solidly. With the bench and even the starters. Jokic is a great screener and he doesn't need the space other bigs need when rolling to the basket due to his floater and high-release mid-range game. And great passing. Westbrook not drawing much defensive attention in the PnR is less of a concern.
Russ + Zubac was a good PnR tandem and Ivica has the best floater/paint-extended game outside of Jokic.
Russ gives Denver an actual playmaker outside of Jokic. And there should be great cutting opportunities for him with Nikola's playmaking from the paint-extended/free-throw line/nail area. Not to mention the Nuggets like to play up-tempo, getting out in transition and inbounding fast for early offense.
Even if it's just to help them in the regular season it's still potentially a win. Jamal will inevitably miss 20-30+ games.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]July 19th, 2024
The Westbrook with Zubac and without Harden lineup minutes tended to do well. I remember before they got Harden LAC was killing it. The [Westbrook, George, Leonard, Covington, Zubac] lineup was +38.4 in 50:51 minutes of game time. A small sample admittedly, but not too shabby.
I can see the [Westbrook, Braun/Murray, Porter, Gordon, Jokic] lineups functioning in a similar fashion. And he should help the bench units too.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]July 19th, 2024
Also building on Westbrook's fit with Jokic: 1) Russ is great at post-entry passes, even within the PnR; 2) The reckless way Russ attacks the rim creates more offensive rebounds, putbacks, and tip-ins.
The second point sounds ridiculous but it tends to hold true throughout his career. It's covered in the Thinking Basketball video below.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/thH5nLm/8xjm6r.gif[/img]
[url]https://youtu.be/8zhBVMAjAmA?feature=shared&t=248[/url][/QUOTE]
I was bang on about the starting lineups featuring Westbrook. Here's how the numbers are looking so far:
[QUOTE]Basketball Reference
[B]C. Braun | A. Gordon | N. Jokić | M. Porter | R. Westbrook:[/B] 100:21 minutes played (4th most-used lineup), +26.1 net rating
[B]A. Gordon | N. Jokić | J. Murray | M. Porter | R. Westbrook:[/B] 47:31 minutes played (7th most-used lineup), +21.0 net rating[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]NBA.com
[B]C. Braun | A. Gordon | N. Jokić | M. Porter | R. Westbrook:[/B] 100 minutes played (4th most-used lineup), 126.7 ORtg, 100.9 DRtg, +25.8 net rating
[B]A. Gordon | N. Jokić | J. Murray | M. Porter | R. Westbrook:[/B] 48 minutes played (7th most-used lineup), 129.8 ORtg, 112.9 DRtg, +16.9 net rating[/QUOTE]
Denver is up to 15-3 now in games Westbrook has started with Jokic. Per game averages: 14 points, 6 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers, 52.7% FG, 59.1% TS.