making the impossible possible, what teams want beal?

[QUOTE=tontoz;14968168]While that may be true in order to start a full rebuild the owner and mgt have to admit that they blew it. I know from history that is unlikely to happen this quickly.[/QUOTE]

that's what i am afraid of, the rumors keep signaling they want butler so these guys have their heads buried in sand. the fact that they are a disaster of a team right now and are looking to double down to acquire butler, another older star player, tells you everything you need to know about the owner and gm.

[QUOTE=highwhey;14968169]that's what i am afraid of, the rumors keep signaling they want butler so these guys have their heads buried in sand. the fact that they are a disaster of a team right now and are looking to double down to acquire butler, another older star player, tells you everything you need to know about the owner and gm.[/QUOTE]
No why would you be afraid of that unless you're a Suns fan?

[QUOTE=RRR3;14968170]No why would you be afraid of that unless you're a Suns fan?[/QUOTE]

i like the organization because of its history. steve nash turned me into a diehard basketball fan. booker is disrespecting all of that history with his nonchalant kendall jenner dating too cool for school non leadership no defense having iso ball one dimensional scorer attitude

latest from the rumor mill is the heat want the suns 2031 1st rounder but suns are not budging on it. they've given away a sh1t ton of 1st rounders lol, but i think a couple more weeks will make them desperate enough to bite on jimmy and pat riley is smart enough to call their bluff.

Trading for Beal forced them to blow up their team.

[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/61c9c379-dc9e-4342-8972-a3c17258e5a1/28142aef-0bf2-4bfc-808b-9903b8529577.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=tontoz;15020568]Trading for Beal forced them to blow up their team.

[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/61c9c379-dc9e-4342-8972-a3c17258e5a1/28142aef-0bf2-4bfc-808b-9903b8529577.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Saw that.

This situation in Phoenix is as bad as it gets.

I was gonna make a thread about toxic players on toxic contracts in history and see if anyone could come up with examples of a team getting ****ed over so badly by a player and their contract.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15020568]Trading for Beal forced them to blow up their team.

[IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/61c9c379-dc9e-4342-8972-a3c17258e5a1/28142aef-0bf2-4bfc-808b-9903b8529577.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

it would make more sense to ride it out for 2 years or get rid of other players...stretching the contract for the next 5 years doesn't make sense.

[QUOTE=highwhey;15020575]it would make more sense to ride it out for 2 years or get rid of other players...stretching the contract for the next 5 years doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]

Bucks did the same thing with Dame. I would guess the projected increase in the salary cap played a role in the decisions.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15020576]Bucks did the same thing with Dame. I would guess the projected increase in the salary cap played a role in the decisions.[/QUOTE]

but it's not increasing that much right? and i think suns are going to take a $20m/yr cap hit for the next 5 years. horrible decision all around. i'd even risk getting a pick frozen as a penalty over this bs.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15020576]Bucks did the same thing with Dame. I would guess the projected increase in the salary cap played a role in the decisions.[/QUOTE]

Lost year for dame. Not much choice for bucks if they want to keep giannis happy

[QUOTE=highwhey;15020577]but it's not increasing that much right? and i think suns are going to take a $20m/yr cap hit for the next 5 years. horrible decision all around. i'd even risk getting a pick frozen as a penalty over this bs.[/QUOTE]


If we assume they are going into rebuilding mode the $20 million in dead cap doesn't matter much. If they are actually trying to win then yeah that would be a problem.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15020589]If we assume they are going into rebuilding mode the $20 million in dead cap doesn't matter much. If they are actually trying to win then yeah that would be a problem.[/QUOTE]
Booker wont want a rebuild

[QUOTE=highwhey;15020577]but it's not increasing that much right? and i think suns are going to take a $20m/yr cap hit for the next 5 years. horrible decision all around. i'd even risk getting a pick frozen as a penalty over this bs.[/QUOTE]

I’m not 100% sure on the Suns situation but I want to say it would be to get them out of second apron and luxury tax penalties. It’s not easy to shed salary once you are in the second apron.

Phoenix is baked shit. No idea what they are doing or how they will do it. Milwaukee probably did the wrong thing stretch-waiving Lillaird but there is the (bad) logic there that they need to make an immediate move to get Giannis to stock around, so they did what they had to do to sign a star (or Myles Turner anyway). If Phoenix waives Beal so that he bites their cap for a similar length of time they are just extending the pain. They won't be bringing in a superstar and they've already blown it up (whatever it was) by trading KD in the"biggest trade in NBA history" (who ****ing cares). The team is currently Devin Booker and a lot of bad decisions. The coach should start 5 two guards (that's all they have anyway) in protest until the front office is truly cleaned out (they actually still keep James Jones around and promoted their new GM from within, meaning you have the same group of people making decisions). I wonder if they saw the Lillaird waiving and were like, "****ing brilliant! Let's do it."

Correct me if I'm wrong but they're 90 mil over the cap. Do waive Beal and they're still over the cap, just they have him as an albatross around their necks for a few more years.

Looking it up they are past second apron so this would at least save them money. It just won't make them any better. If I was a Suns fan... the rational reaction would be to stop caring.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15020594]I’m not 100% sure on the Suns situation but I want to say it would be to get them out of second apron and luxury tax penalties. It’s not easy to shed salary once you are in the second apron.[/QUOTE]
that's what it seems like, but someone had mentioned that they can aggregate salaries in a trade if it puts them under the 2nd apron. which they can do but it would cost them green most likely.

[QUOTE=tontoz;15020589]If we assume they are going into rebuilding mode the $20 million in dead cap doesn't matter much. If they are actually trying to win then yeah that would be a problem.[/QUOTE]

they aren't really rebuilding, they do not know what the hell they are doing. they just got like 3 or 4 rookies but re-upped booker for 2 extra years on his max contract so they aren't letting him go. it's a half assed rebuild that won't go anywhere. they should have shopped booker and it would have alleviated a lot of things bc there's just no way they even make the playoffs for the next 3-4 years.

Puts them under tax so that makes sense

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15020609]Phoenix is baked shit. No idea what they are doing or how they will do it. Milwaukee probably did the wrong thing stretch-waiving Lillaird but there is the (bad) logic there that they need to make an immediate move to get Giannis to stock around, so they did what they had to do to sign a star (or Myles Turner anyway). If Phoenix waives Beal so that he bites their cap for a similar length of time they are just extending the pain. They won't be bringing in a superstar and they've already blown it up (whatever it was) by trading KD in the"biggest trade in NBA history" (who ****ing cares). The team is currently Devin Booker and a lot of bad decisions. The coach should start 5 two guards (that's all they have anyway) in protest until the front office is truly cleaned out (they actually still keep James Jones around and promoted their new GM from within, meaning you have the same group of people making decisions). I wonder if they saw the Lillaird waiving and were like, "****ing brilliant! Let's do it."

Correct me if I'm wrong but they're 90 mil over the cap. Do waive Beal and they're still over the cap, just they have him as an albatross around their necks for a few more years.

Looking it up they are past second apron so this would at least save them money. It just won't make them any better. If I was a Suns fan... the rational reaction would be to stop caring.[/QUOTE]

the most anoying thing about this situation is nothing will be learned from it. the new-ish front office is not cleaning house. the past execs either left or got demoted. not sure if getting demoted is worse than being fired, but it should be since it means the team owners don't care that james jones fvcked this team beyond repair for the next decade and is still being given employment...oh and booker somehow got rewarded with 2 more max years of income after being the center culprit of bringing in kd and beal. it was him talking into the GM's ear to bring KD (his buddy) and Beal. then they went on to play absolute dog sh1t basketball and stop caring about winning while pretentiously tweeting cringe shit like "36 unbothered".

the franchise should be stripped from top to bottom. suspended even. i've seen better management at a starbucks.

You can be mad at Booker if he was giving bad advice and madder still if he leveraged his influence to force those bad decisions. But don't forget that he's a player and thus ultimately not the one making decisions. 2 years ago every star player that was trying to win would have wanted their team to trade non-stars for Durant. And lot's of us (myself included) thought it was a good move. So if Beal was for it, I don't/can't fault him. bit front office does have the responsibility to not do things like the Beal trade and to figure out who to put around Booker and Durant and how to get them there.

Resigning Booker doesn't necassarily mean they aren't willing to trade him. Having 3 years left on his deal might make him easier to trade.

But yeah its clear the Suns don't know what they are doing. As a Wizards fan i know what a dysfunctional front office looks like lol.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15020631]You can be mad at Booker if he was giving bad advice and madder still if he leveraged his influence to force those bad decisions. But don't forget that he's a player and thus ultimately not the one making decisions. 2 years ago every star player that was trying to win would have wanted their team to trade non-stars for Durant. And lot's of us (myself included) thought it was a good move. So if Beal was for it, I don't/can't fault him. bit front office does have the responsibility to not do things like the Beal trade and to figure out who to put around Booker and Durant and how to get them there.[/QUOTE]

i am mad that they are still doing this half-measure, i don't care for booker - haven't since he gave up on the team. but i was hoping this new front office would do things differently, apparently they did not learn anything. their 1st round pick was promised by book he'd "see him next year".

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14967870]That has to be about the most brain dead signing in history, right?[/QUOTE]
True[url=https://i.ibb.co/hX34jLs/IMG-20221001-103220.jpg].[/url]

[B][size=1]But only the narcissistic psychopath who posted directly after you is even more braindead lmao.[/b][/size]

We'll do this by the numbers.

Number of teams that want Beal: 0

Number of Lebron's documented post season choke jobs: 45

Number of days Axe has lived without throwing a bitch fit: [B][SIZE=5]0[/SIZE][/B]

Yea this ended up being the worst contract in the nba rip suns and bookers prime. Gm kd better not mess with the rockets too much.

On less for the mle tbf, Beal should have suitors. He can still be starter in right spot(3rd option with a pg who can pass and defenders). I think mil needs him most and he’ll put up 20ppg there but I think gs is best fit. Clips to replace Powell not bad either. Curry Beal butler dray horford is laughably old but that’s a contender with the warriors bench

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15020933]Yea this ended up being the worst contract in the nba rip suns and bookers prime. Gm kd better not mess with the rockets too much.

On less for the mle tbf, Beal should have suitors. He can still be starter in right spot(3rd option with a pg who can pass and defenders). I think mil needs him most and he’ll put up 20ppg there but I think gs is best fit. Clips to replace Powell not bad either. Curry Beal butler dray horford is laughably old but that’s a contender with the warriors bench[/QUOTE]

@kblaze
@dmavs41

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15020950]@kblaze
@dmavs41[/QUOTE]

As Zach Lowe likes to say the 2nd apron is basically a hard cap. Everyone underestimated it but some more than others

making the impossible possible...? that sounds like a job for Le-Ethan Hunt [IMG]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon6.png[/IMG]

Lmao this debate lasted years... Correct me if i am wrong. In summary Beal's contract was terrible, some said it might be the worst in history. Kblaze and dmavs said it is easily moveable and suns traded for him shortly after which was a terrible trade for them. Sometimes bad contracts are easier to move bcs of money matching and there are always desperate or stupid teams. Sometimes having bad contracts is better having no assets.

Without the no yrade clause they could have moved him

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;15020979]As Zach Lowe likes to say the 2nd apron is basically a hard cap. Everyone underestimated it but some more than others[/QUOTE]

I was pretty shocked upon hearing the new CBA details. I don’t think I underestimated the penalties but I did underestimate how hard it is to get out of it once you are in it deep. Shit is rough.

[QUOTE=Akeem34TheDream;15020985]Lmao this debate lasted years... Correct me if i am wrong. In summary Beal's contract was terrible, some said it might be the worst in history. Kblaze and dmavs said it is easily moveable and suns traded for him shortly after which was a terrible trade for them. Sometimes bad contracts are easier to move bcs of money matching and there are always desperate or stupid teams. Sometimes having bad contracts is better having no assets.[/QUOTE]

Lol. Pretty much. Yes you can use contracts to trade for big guys…but let’s also remember if it’s bad value contract like beal you aren’t gonna get anything back. It has negative value. You gotta pay to get rid of it.

[B]It’s more of a liability than an asset[/B].

Also not signing huge pointless contracts grants you much needed flexibility. Look at the cap hell everyone is in right now. Literally no team in the entire nba can make a big signing at the moment.

You can blame the cba or blame the gm’s

The heart of Kblaze and Dmavs argument was it’s not a bad contract because GM’s are idiots.

The consequences of this type of thinking is rearing its ugly head.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15021003]Lol. Pretty much. Yes you can use contracts to trade for big guys…but let’s also remember if it’s bad value contract like beal you aren’t gonna get anything back. It has negative value. You gotta pay to get rid of it.

[B]It’s more of a liability than an asset[/B].

Also not signing huge pointless contracts grants you much needed flexibility. Look at the cap hell everyone is in right now. Literally no team in the entire nba can make a big signing at the moment.

You can blame the cba or blame the gm’s

The heart of Kblaze and Dmavs argument was it’s not a bad contract because GM’s are idiots.

The consequences of this type of thinking is rearing its ugly head.[/QUOTE]

They’re idiots but you have to be an ostrich with a head in the sand if you don’t care about how much salary your team has no. Also there’s a reason guys like Norman Powell Colin sexton even can Johnson haven’t gone for much. If you make 20-25 mil now you better be a high lvl starter or teams don’t want you on their books. Most teams can’t really afford to give 25 mil to a 5th starter anymore. For the borderline all star type like bane or bridges sure teams will send a bunch of picks.

It turned out not to be a bad contract for Washington. Phoenix is screwed though. The funny thing that we'll see when he goes to his next team is that he's still a good player. The problem is all the crap attached. Being overpaid would be manageable if they hadn't also damaged his trade value (ppg dropped by 5 in Phoenix due to being third best player, second best sg and they let it come out that he was unwilling to change his role) and then he had ano-trade clause on top of everything else. Phoenix thought they could win a championship so they took all this on. So it was a fine deal for Washington because Phoenix is stupid. Without Phoenix, who knows, but given how bad Washington is he would have been willing to waive his clause for a team that looked like it works compete