Did Donald Trump just have the best day ever for a U.S. President?

[QUOTE=diamenz;15006803][B]but the tariffs are off now[/B]. we're back at square one in the same place we were before liberation day.
there's no long term strategy. it's all bluster on the part of the trump administration. plus prices are gonna continue to ho up, of which i'm sure i don't have to tell you, will never go back down.

why do you continue to be so optimistic about this without question?[/QUOTE]

That's just not true at all.

Prior to 2016, average tariffs on China were below 3%. Trump got that number up to around 19% during his first term and it stayed there during Biden. Today, with the terms agreed by China(and what you call back to square one) until they make a permanent deal, the average tariff of Chinese products exported to the US is at 51%, while the same number for China going the other way is 32%(up from 21%).

Vs the rest of the world, the average tariff is almost 12% today, up from 3% prior to the second term of the orange man.

[URL="https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart"]https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart[/URL]

I'm optimistic because for a lot of businesses it's going to make sense to produce in the US instead, and for the ones where it doesn't they get to pay some tax instead.
You say that's going to make everything even more expensive, but companies will never be able to forward those expenses at a 1:1 ratio and the people most affected by any potential increase in everyday products are also the one's who benefit the most from more middle class jobs.
It's also up to government to lower expenses for the middle and lower class, like lesser taxes. I know it's popular to say that "Trump will give tax breaks and enrich all his rich friends", but let's see what happens and if he's not going to do something to help regular people out - he's certainly currently pissing off any of his buddies importing from China.
He's also trying to deport 20-30 million people, many of whom work at terrible salaries and because of their legal status can only find lower end jobs, helping to bring down the average wage and certainly not helping regular Americans.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15007117]That's just not true at all.

Prior to 2016, average tariffs on China were below 3%. Trump got that number up to around 19% during his first term and it stayed there during Biden. Today, with the terms agreed by China(and what you call back to square one) until they make a permanent deal, the average tariff of Chinese products exported to the US is at 51%, while the same number for China going the other way is 32%(up from 21%).

Vs the rest of the world, the average tariff is almost 12% today, up from 3% prior to the second term of the orange man.

[URL="https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart"]https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart[/URL]

I'm optimistic because for a lot of businesses it's going to make sense to produce in the US instead, and for the ones where it doesn't they get to pay some tax instead.
You say that's going to make everything even more expensive, but companies will never be able to forward those expenses at a 1:1 ratio and the people most affected by any potential increase in everyday products are also the one's who benefit the most from more middle class jobs.
It's also up to government to lower expenses for the middle and lower class, like lesser taxes. I know it's popular to say that "Trump will give tax breaks and enrich all his rich friends", but let's see what happens and if he's not going to do something to help regular people out - he's certainly currently pissing off any of his buddies importing from China.
He's also trying to deport 20-30 million people, many of whom work at terrible salaries and because of their legal status can only find lower end jobs, helping to bring down the average wage and certainly not helping regular Americans.[/QUOTE]

When none of which you wrote happens, only the everything is more expensive happens... remember this thread, pal. And the Democrats with complete control of all the levers of power despite their ineptitude...

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15007117]That's just not true at all.

Prior to 2016, average tariffs on China were below 3%. Trump got that number up to around 19% during his first term and it stayed there during Biden. Today, with the terms agreed by China(and what you call back to square one) until they make a permanent deal, the average tariff of Chinese products exported to the US is at 51%, while the same number for China going the other way is 32%(up from 21%).

Vs the rest of the world, the average tariff is almost 12% today, up from 3% prior to the second term of the orange man.

[URL="https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart"]https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2019/us-china-trade-war-tariffs-date-chart[/URL]

I'm optimistic because for a lot of businesses it's going to make sense to produce in the US instead, and for the ones where it doesn't they get to pay some tax instead.
You say that's going to make everything even more expensive, but companies will never be able to forward those expenses at a 1:1 ratio and the people most affected by any potential increase in everyday products are also the one's who benefit the most from more middle class jobs.
It's also up to government to lower expenses for the middle and lower class, like lesser taxes. I know it's popular to say that "Trump will give tax breaks and enrich all his rich friends", but let's see what happens and if he's not going to do something to help regular people out - he's certainly currently pissing off any of his buddies importing from China.
He's also trying to deport 20-30 million people, many of whom work at terrible salaries and because of their legal status can only find lower end jobs, helping to bring down the average wage and certainly not helping regular Americans.[/QUOTE]

well you seem far more well versed than i am on this so i'm not even gonna bother arguing at this point. still not on board with all of this but i'm eager to see where it goes.

[QUOTE=TheMan;15007163]When none of which you wrote happens, only the everything is more expensive happens... remember this thread, pal. And the Democrats with complete control of all the levers of power despite their ineptitude...[/QUOTE]

You're right that the establishment might be successful in blocking deportations or not getting through the Trump EO on lower pharma pricing, or maybe Trump won't lower taxes for regular people or pay off national debt, but everything would get more expensive regardless at the very least. Global open border financial politics is designed around a constant increase.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15007117]until they make a permanent deal, the average tariff of Chinese products exported to the US is at 51%, while the same number for China going the other way is 32%(up from 21%).

[/QUOTE]

wait, isn't this % difference what i've been talking about recently? that 20% is the fentanyl tariff, is it not?

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15007213]You're right that the establishment might be successful in blocking deportations or not getting through the Trump EO on lower pharma pricing, or maybe Trump won't lower taxes for regular people or pay off national debt, but everything would get more expensive regardless at the very least. Global open border financial politics is designed around a constant increase.[/QUOTE]
"Establishment" Y'all literally control the entire government, you can't keep blaming the Democrats if they don't have power :hammerhead:

[QUOTE=diamenz;15007532]wait, isn't this % difference what i've been talking about recently? that 20% is the fentanyl tariff, is it not?[/QUOTE]

I don't know what you mean by the fentanyl tariff, I gave you a link that has all tariffs update pretty cut and dry. From it you get the following information:

The average tariff on Chines products exported to the US used to be 3%. A lot of product wasn't tariffed at all while other stuff were tariffed higher, coming to a total average of 3%.
Today, [B]everything [/B]is tariffed [I]at least[/I] 10% and a lot of stuff much higher, coming to a total average of 51%.

Rest of world also used to be 3%, now it's 11.7%.

A total average of 3% tariff is very low, it's what Trump meant when he was on Oprah in 88 claiming politicians had sold out the US population with terrible deals. It's what Sanders has spoken about in congress many times, that the US worker has no protection and the politicians has sold them out. They were both right.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15007554]"Establishment" Y'all literally control the entire government, you can't keep blaming the Democrats if they don't have power :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]

I don't know what you mean by "ya'll", but there are plenty of legacy politicians on both sides who'd prefer illegal immigrants not to be deported because they profit heavily from their donors being able to pay lower wages. Same thing with pharma, if lots politicians didn't want prices to remain high, we wouldn't need a Trump EO to bring them down.

you don't 'know what i mean' by the fentanyl tariff!? you've been on this thing like white on rice since it's inception and you're gonna sit there with a straight face and tell me that? you're shooting down your credibility here zen. you're either being intentionally disingenuous here or you've been played.

look, china still has a 10% tariff on us, across the board, as do we mutually. so that's ten and ten. plus the extra twenty percent fentanyl tariff, which... i shouldn't have to tell you is insignificant and is not going to last. you'd be a fool to think otherwisr. so it's not our 30% to their 10%. that's just a misleading spin.

that's why i said we're in that same boat we started in. whatever unfair trade practices that china had on us prior to liberation day are still there. following that, nothing was gained in our part.

[QUOTE=diamenz;15007677]you don't 'know what i mean' by the fentanyl tariff!? you've been on this thing like white on rice since it's inception and you're gonna sit there with a straight face and tell me that? you're shooting down your credibility here zen. you're either being intentionally disingenuous here or you've been played.[/QUOTE]

OK so the first new set of China tariffs, sorry but I've convinced higher tariffs were needed for a long time, so I don't care what gimmicky name Trump came up with to try and convince more people it's the right move.

[QUOTE]look, china still has a 10% tariff on us, across the board, as do we mutually. so that's ten and ten. plus the extra twenty percent fentanyl tariff, which... i shouldn't have to tell you is insignificant and is not going to last. you'd be a fool to think otherwisr. so it's not our 30% to their 10%. that's just a misleading spin.
that's why i said we're in that same boat we started in. whatever unfair trade practices that china had on us prior to liberation day are still there. following that, nothing was gained in our part.
[/QUOTE]

Read what I wrote in my last post again please, when you count up all the tariffs on all the stuff getting exported from China to the US, the average product is is currently tariffed 51% and the average on products going from US to China is 32% - it's not 30 and 10.
Sure there's a 10% base on each side now, but at lot of stuff is tariffed much higher. And 10% on each side isn't the same as before either where a lot of stuff had 0%, it's far from prior to the situation before April 2nd.

I'm confused why you think the extra twenty percent fentanyl tariff is insignificant, it's the tariff that set the whole thing off as China immediately upped theirs as well. You're right that it's temporary though, all of this is until Trump and Xi agree on a new deal.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15008210]OK so the first new set of China tariffs, sorry but I've convinced higher tariffs were needed for a long time, so I don't care what gimmicky name Trump came up with to try and convince more people it's the right move.



Read what I wrote in my last post again please, when you count up all the tariffs on all the stuff getting exported from China to the US, the average product is is currently tariffed 51% and the average on products going from US to China is 32% - it's not 30 and 10.
Sure there's a 10% base on each side now, but at lot of stuff is tariffed much higher. And 10% on each side isn't the same as before either where a lot of stuff had 0%, it's far from prior to the situation before April 2nd.

[B]I'm confused why you think the extra twenty percent fentanyl tariff is insignificant,[/B] it's the tariff that set the whole thing off as China immediately upped theirs as well. You're right that it's temporary though, all of this is until Trump and Xi agree on a new deal.[/QUOTE]

because it's not there to stay. i shouldn't have to tell you that.

you and i going back and forth on this right now doesn't make much sense to be honest and i think you'd agree with me. it'd be most productive having this conversation later on in the game, when things have settled, the trade war is over and a final deal has been made. it would be fairer to the president to do so as well. i think we're both just caught up in the moment and the moment doesn't matter in the grand scheme of it all. fair?

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[QUOTE=diamenz;15008225]because it's not there to stay. i shouldn't have to tell you that.

you and i going back and forth on this right now doesn't make much sense to be honest and i think you'd agree with me. it'd be most productive having this conversation later on in the game, when things have settled, the trade war is over and a final deal has been made. it would be fairer to the president to do so as well. i think we're both just caught up in the moment and the moment doesn't matter in the grand scheme of it all. fair?[/QUOTE]

Going to have to disagree with you a little bit there bro. I'm not caught up in the moment and never have been, my angle into these threads about tariffs have from the start been to tell others to calm down. Like OTC and Bill Gates going crazy about how "money is wiped out from the market" like it was put into some digital shredder, or TheMan who comes here with fake stories about how tariffs aren't only not working, they're actually helping China to sell more.
I think these are things you got caught up in a little bit, to a point where you can't even see how [I]everything[/I] from China being tariffed at least 10% is super significant, because A LOT more product moves from China to the US than from the US to China and a lot of it used to be not tariffed at all.
From the start I've been saying that this stuff will take a while and it's not something to just fix in a week, as you literally have other countries trying to work against it.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15008237]
I think these are things you got caught up in a little bit[/QUOTE]

i probably do. we all do to some extent. some more than others like you said.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;15008237]
From the start I've been saying that this stuff will take a while and it's not something to just fix in a week, as you literally have other countries trying to work against it.[/QUOTE]

we'll just have to wait and see then. no passive aggression behind that statement either. cheers bro.

[QUOTE=diamenz;15008239]i probably do. we all do to some extent. some more than others like you said.



we'll just have to wait and see then. no passive aggression behind that statement either. cheers bro.[/QUOTE]

:cheers: It should all be OK, and if the tariff thing doesn't work out then it's right back to the same system we already had, which guys like OTC and Bill Gates say is the best possible.

not here in Wisc.

Gas prices are going up ...

and heard that Tariff's (china) has 50% less coming into USA , and soon shelves will be possibly empty.

Food has not dropped but has stalled or have gone up ...

What is good about this prez ??

On top of that he has lined up his dictatorship , which most do not realize.