Nick Wright is liar - "90's East weak" but 6 team in 97 East had 54+ win and 2 had 60

[QUOTE=Da_Realist;15014598]I don't know how you came up with those numbers but I'm curious as to how your system ranks the players for the 97 and 98 Jazz against the 97 and 98 Lakers. Let's see if your rankings would justify the Jazz winning 8 out of 9 playoff games.[/QUOTE]


I'm not talking about any specific player or team.

My numbers are just averages. If there are 23 teams the best player on each team, on average, is the 12th best player in the league and the 2nd best on each team is on average the 35th best. Etc.

I'm not saying the best players in 97 were any better or worse than the best players 10 years earlier or later. Just that overall the league average player was worse and that the best players were spread more thinly because there were more teams, but no increased talent pool.

The talent pool increased over the subsequent decade as the league globalized.

[QUOTE=AussieSteve;15014646]
My numbers are just averages. [/QUOTE]

Your numbers are a crock of shit.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15014649]Your numbers are a crock of shit.[/QUOTE]

Only if you can't comprehend basic math

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15014409]No increase in talent pool? Absolute bullshit. The NBA had exploded in popularity by then. More and more kids were dying to be pro ballers.

Also if your second sentence is true, good because being a 1st option when you would have been a 2nd years before makes you a better player with more responsibility. Same with 3rd becoming 2nd options.

The "expansion era" being weak in one of the biggest myths in NBA history which has been debunked in every conceivable way. It's peddled only by LeBron deepthroaters or kids who probably werent even born back then.[/QUOTE]

Got links explaining how that alleged myth has been debunked? Expansion led to the term "watered down" to describe the league at that time.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15014655]Got links explaining how that alleged myth has been debunked? Expansion led to the term "watered down" to describe the league at that time.[/QUOTE]

I've done this 100 times on here before, I'm not doing it again. Do your own ****ing research.

Plus anyone using the term "weak expansion era" has an agenda and mindset that isn't going to be changed by any link that I could post.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15014420]International players are better now. Obviously Americans were the best source of players back in the day...because they were the only ones who played the sport :lol

If Jokic, SGA, Luka, and Giannis didn't exist maybe Ant has two 27ppg titles and is talked about differently.

The earth has a lot of people outside of the US, and they care more about basketball than they did 30-40 years ago. Is what it is and it's not a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
Well, the sport wasn't even invented by an american in the first place. Lol.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15014658]I've done this 100 times on here before, I'm not doing it again. Do your own ****ing research.

Plus anyone using the term "weak expansion era" has an agenda and mindset that isn't going to be changed by any link that I could post.[/QUOTE]

You made the claim, chico.... it's up to you to back it up.

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[SIZE=3][U]APPLES TO APPLES[/U][/SIZE]


[B]Back-to-Back Runs to the WCF at 22-23 Years Old - KJ vs ANT[/B]


[indent][I]Regular Season[/I]

[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnske02.html#1989-1990-sum:advanced]89' and 90' KJ[/url]'.......... 21.5 per... 0.191 ws/48... 4.6 obpm... 0.0 dbpm... 59.1 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]53.7 league avg[/url])
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/edwaran01.html#2024-2025-sum:advanced]24' and 25' ANT[/url]........ 19.9 per... 0.135 ws/48... 3.6 obpm... 0.2 dbpm... 58.5 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]57.8 league avg[/url])


[I]Playoffs[/I]

[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnske02.html#1989-1990-sum:advanced_post]89' and 90' KJ[/url]'.......... 21.4 per... 0.169 ws/48... 5.2 obpm... 0.6 dbpm... 58.2 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]54.1 league avg[/url])
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/edwaran01.html#2024-2025-sum:advanced_post]24' and 25' ANT[/url]........ 21.3 per... 0.163 ws/48... 4.7 obpm... 1.7 dbpm... 58.1 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]56.6 league avg[/url])[/indent]




[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15014420]

If Jokic, SGA, Luka, and Giannis didn't exist maybe Ant has two 27ppg titles and is talked about differently.


[/QUOTE]


A league with better Americans like MJ, Magic, Bird, (or Kobe, KD, Duncan and Lebron) is tougher than a league where the best American is worse than KJ (above)..

Since Americans are still the majority of the NBA, and since American basketball has devolved from MJ to less than KJ, we know that today's NBA player is worse on average than previous eras.. Hope this has helped improve your rudimentary understanding of this issue.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15014685].
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[SIZE=3][U]APPLES TO APPLES[/U][/SIZE]


[B]Back-to-Back Runs to the WCF at 22-23 Years Old - KJ vs ANT[/B]


[indent][I]Regular Season[/I]

[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnske02.html#1989-1990-sum:advanced]89' and 90' KJ[/url]'.......... 21.5 per... 0.191 ws/48... 4.6 obpm... 0.0 dbpm... 59.1 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]53.7 league avg[/url])
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/edwaran01.html#2024-2025-sum:advanced]24' and 25' ANT[/url]........ 19.9 per... 0.135 ws/48... 3.6 obpm... 0.2 dbpm... 58.5 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]57.8 league avg[/url])


[I]Playoffs[/I]

[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnske02.html#1989-1990-sum:advanced_post]89' and 90' KJ[/url]'.......... 21.4 per... 0.169 ws/48... 5.2 obpm... 0.6 dbpm... 58.2 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]54.1 league avg[/url])
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/edwaran01.html#2024-2025-sum:advanced_post]24' and 25' ANT[/url]........ 21.3 per... 0.163 ws/48... 4.7 obpm... 1.7 dbpm... 58.1 ts ([url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]56.6 league avg[/url])[/indent]







A league with better Americans like MJ, Magic, Bird, (or Kobe, KD, Duncan and Lebron) is tougher than a league where the best American is worse than KJ (above)..

Since Americans are still the majority of the NBA, and since American basketball has devolved from MJ to less than KJ, we know that today's NBA player is worse on average than previous eras.. Hope this has helped improve your rudimentary understanding of this issue.[/QUOTE]

You keep comparing KJ and Ant stats like it means something. It doesn't prove that he's better, it proves the rest of the league was worse... Because we know that he wasn't better.

A worse player can get better stats if his competition isn't as good. Does that not compute with you?

[QUOTE=AussieSteve;15014888]You keep comparing KJ and Ant stats like it means something. It doesn't prove that he's better, it proves the rest of the league was worse... Because we know that he wasn't better.

A worse player can get better stats if his competition isn't as good. Does that not compute with you?[/QUOTE]
I'm a bit hesitant to use this as an example to what you're trying to point out here. But doesn't that one sound similar to saying that lebron shines best and does great playing on a team full of scrubs?

[QUOTE=3ba11;15013473].
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[INDENT][IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-25-2025/o1zeq4.gif[/IMG][/INDENT]


[size=4]Shaq/Penny Magic were formidable in 96', while the 93' Knicks won 60 games and were the 1 seed with homecourt.. The 97' Heat won 60 games, and the Bad Boys were 2-time defending champs in 91' with Isiah/Dumars/Rodman at 29/27/29 years old.. Cavs won 57 games and had 3 all-stars in 92'.[/size]







[img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-18-2021/MXQa8S.gif[/img]




[img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-11-2025/_rNo7l.gif[/img][/QUOTE]


Facts gonna facts

[QUOTE=3ba11;15015577]Facts gonna facts[/QUOTE]


A league with better international players like Jokic, Giannis, Donkic and SGA is tougher than a league where the best inrernationals are worse than and OG and Zubac (Kukoc and Longley).

[QUOTE=AussieSteve;15016093]A league with better international players like Jokic, Giannis, Donkic and SGA is tougher than a league where the best inrernationals are worse than and OG and Zubac (Kukoc and Longley).[/QUOTE]


International players are the minority though, so the increase of the minority's caliber can't offset the cratering of the majority's caliber (MJ to KJ)

[QUOTE=3ba11;15016096]International players are the minority though, so the increase of the minority's caliber can't offset the cratering of the majority's caliber (MJ to KJ)[/QUOTE]

The minority that is made up by international players today was made of player's promoted from the CBA in '96, who weren't good enough to make the NBA a few years earlier.

[QUOTE=AussieSteve;15016111]The minority that is made up by international players today was made of player's promoted from the CBA in '96, who weren't good enough to make the NBA a few years earlier.[/QUOTE]


the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in

[QUOTE=Meticode;15013526]Do you usually just spew bullshit out of mouth through your fingertips onto you keyboard?[/QUOTE]
[Url=https://i.ibb.co/LJtPyW7/IMG-20221213-081813.jpg][Img]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/image.php?u=827668&dateline=1624237688&type=thumb[/img][/url]

[QUOTE=3ba11;15016250]the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in[/QUOTE]

This is something that you claim without any possible way to validate it.

An much more plausible argument is that IF American players seem to be not as good today, it's because the rest of the world has caught up is. There is no reason why the standard of US players would have declined, but a clear reason for why international players have gotten better.

Something that doesn't need to be validated, because it's manifestly obvious, is that the only reason many players, who would have been sub-NBA level in the late 80s, made the NBA in the late 90s is that the league opened up 25% more roster spots, without increasing the talent pool from which it sourced players.

By extension, superstars in the late 90s were more frequently matched up on players who would not have made the NBA in any other period, post-merger. And more frequently playing against teams who's franchise players would have been a 2nd option in any other period.

[QUOTE=AussieSteve;15016328]This is something that you claim without any possible way to validate it.

An much more plausible argument is that IF American players seem to be not as good today, it's because the rest of the world has caught up is. There is no reason why the standard of US players would have declined, but a clear reason for why international players have gotten better.

Something that doesn't need to be validated, because it's manifestly obvious, is that the only reason many players, who would have been sub-NBA level in the late 80s, made the NBA in the late 90s is that the league opened up 25% more roster spots, without increasing the talent pool from which it sourced players.

By extension, superstars in the late 90s were more frequently matched up on players who would not have made the NBA in any other period, post-merger. And more frequently playing against teams who's franchise players would have been a 2nd option in any other period.[/QUOTE]


The international game catching up has nothing to do with Ant and Ja being nothing compared to Shaq and MJ... Americans are simply much worse than prior eras

So the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in

[QUOTE=3ba11;15016901]The international game catching up has nothing to do with Ant and Ja being nothing compared to Shaq and MJ... Americans are simply much worse than prior eras

So the only reason many international players can make today's NBA is because Americans have cratered from MJ to KJ - this allows more international players in[/QUOTE]

Yeah sorry. This argument makes no sense. When basketball participation rates globally have skyrocketed in the last 30 years, it's obvious that the rest of the world would produce more and better talent.

There's no coherent reason why Americans would have got worse, and there is no coherent reason that the rest of the world would not have got better despite the increase in participation.

Your argument is completely transparent. It's reverse engineered to ensure that MJ played in a strong era. It's not based in reality.

All you have is stats to support your ramblings. But stats are an indication performance relative to team mates and competiton. If a players team mates and competition are, on average, worse, their stats will be better... so this is a non argument.

[QUOTE=AussieSteve;15016938]Yeah sorry. This argument makes no sense. When basketball participation rates globally have skyrocketed in the last 30 years, it's obvious that the rest of the world would produce more and better talent.

There's no coherent reason why Americans would have got worse, and there is no coherent reason that the rest of the world would not have got better despite the increase in participation.

Your argument is completely transparent. It's reverse engineered to ensure that MJ played in a strong era. It's not based in reality.

All you have is stats to support your ramblings. But stats are an indication performance relative to team mates and competiton. If a players team mates and competition are, on average, worse, their stats will be better... so this is a non argument.[/QUOTE]


"No coherent reason why Americans got worse?"

There are many coherent reasons... Adam Silver reduced the NBA format to a hands-off, spaced-out beginner format with an open paint, which doesn't produce the best players anymore... So all the best players come from tougher formats overseas that have more physicality and less spacing, thus producing superior hoops instinct and skill..

So again, regardless of the international game going bonkers like you say, Americans are still the majority of the NBA, so their cratering conclusively confirms that today's NBA player is worse overall, or on average...

And btw, we mentioned earlier how the 4 thru 7 spots on OKC are undecorated, 3-point robots - that's what Silver's beginner format has done, while also dumbing down the hoops instinct of our most talented stars (Ant, Ja, Tatum)... In contrast to the 3-pt robots that permeate today's benches, the 4 thru 7 spots on Jordan's Finals opponents were decorated resumes of all-star, all-defense and/or 20 ppg.. This is obvious just by comparing the bench of today's game (3-pt robots) to previous eras (diverse scorers).

How many days and threads has 3ball and AussieSteve been running in circles on the American/Int'l player things lol? Jesus H Christ.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;15016961]How many days and threads has 3ball and AussieSteve been running in circles on the American/Int'l player things lol? Jesus H Christ.[/QUOTE]


It's Aussie.. He can't refute the obvious point that if the majority of something craters in quality (Americans in the NBA) then the NBA is worse overall, even if the minority sees a bump (international players).

[QUOTE=AussieSteve;15016938]
There's no coherent reason why Americans would have got worse
[/QUOTE]

It's amazing how much confidence you have despite being utterly clueless.

One and dones. College ball being an absolute joke these days. Bad coaches at top colleges. American players entering the league with almost no fundamentals except iso. Etc etc.