[QUOTE=Meticode;15014715]I'm curious how the lineup is going to look. Suggs and Bane play the same position.[/QUOTE]
Suggs is a 1 and bane a 2 right?
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[QUOTE=Meticode;15014715]I'm curious how the lineup is going to look. Suggs and Bane play the same position.[/QUOTE]
Suggs is a 1 and bane a 2 right?
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15014784]Suggs is a 1 and bane a 2 right?[/QUOTE]
Either or yes. Probably something like...
C: Carter Jr.
PF: Wagner
SF: Banchero
SG: Bane
PG: Suggs
[QUOTE=Meticode;15014783]Yep and he'll still get at least two years on an extension and he'll get at least $50 million/year if not more.[/QUOTE]
Doesnt mean teams are lined up to give away 1sts and pay him though. Bane signed for 4 more years just when he should be peaking for less money.
[QUOTE=theman93;15014773]We had to because we’ve been one of the worst 3 point shooting teams the past few years. Indiana isn’t some world beater. Finally give Paolo and Franz some space to operate and I see no reason why we can’t compete for the East.[/QUOTE]
Cleveland just won 64 games. Indiana started badly but including the playoffs are 52-21 over their last 73 games. Orlando is a play in team that just added one good shooter.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15014786]Doesnt mean teams are lined up to give away 1sts and pay him though. Bane signed for 4 more years just when he should be peaking for less money.[/QUOTE]
Either way there's eight teams reportedly interested in him. If they weren't interested in drafting picks or paying him they wouldn't be interested, The Suns will get their picks. Durant will get his money.
[QUOTE=theman93;15014774]Let’s be honest. Bane would have been an all-star if he was playing in the East like Siakam was lol[/QUOTE] Not playing 69, 42 and 58 game seasons. If he had great durability he would be a borderline case but so far he's struggled to stay on the court.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014790]Not playing 69, 42 and 58 game seasons. If he had great durability he would be a borderline case but so far he's struggled to stay on the court.[/QUOTE]
He plays like a borderline all-star when he's on the court. Similar to Garland. Plus it doesn't matter how many games you play in a full season. What matters is how much you play between the start of the season and all-star game. Either way he has trouble staying healthy. His best bet was a couple of seasons ago when he played 42 games, he played 37 prior to the all-star game and had 24/5/5 on 47/38/87 splits. Still wasn't on the court enough.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014788]Cleveland just won 64 games. Indiana started badly but including the playoffs are 52-21 over their last 73 games. Orlando is a play in team that just added one good shooter.[/QUOTE]
Yeah like I said, not world beaters. And yeah play in team because our 3 best players missed a combined 105 games lol
[QUOTE=theman93;15014792]Yeah like I said, not world beaters. And yeah play in team because our 3 best players missed a combined 105 games lol[/QUOTE] There are a lot of teams that would have been better off they didn't have injuries to key personnel. Guys getting hurt is just an unfortunate part of sports and adding another player with an injury history isn't going to fix that issue.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15014784]Suggs is a 1 and bane a 2 right?[/QUOTE]
Yes, they don’t play the same position. Not sure why that was said. Is Suggs the traditional PG? No. Is he still developing as a playmaker? Yes. Does Bane add shooting/playmaking the team needs since it relies on Fran and Paolo to be playmakers? Yes. Does Orlando have anyone that can run the offense? On paper no but they are banking on playmakers by committee it seems while hoping Suggs shows improvement in that department. Who by the way is a helluva defensive guard.
Suggs at the 1
Bane at the 2
Wags at the 3
Paolo at the 4
Carter at the 5
That’s a nice 5 in spite of how much they gave up for Bane. Also expensive after checking salaries. Bench wise? Not sure. They still have a late first to maybe add something.
[QUOTE=Meticode;15014789]Either way there's eight teams reportedly interested in him. If they weren't interested in drafting picks or paying him they wouldn't be interested, The Suns will get their picks. Durant will get his money.[/QUOTE]
He will get paid and suns will get something. Id imagine they want players more than picks. It will take more in contracts to match durant and he will have a say in where he goes which will affect what the suns get
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014793]There are a lot of teams that would have been better off they didn't have injuries to key personnel. Guys getting hurt is just an unfortunate part of sports and adding another player with an injury history isn't going to fix that issue.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but let’s not pretend like we weren’t hit with the injury bug to our best players worse than any other team this year. And by a mile. Arguing against that isn’t an argument in good faith.
[QUOTE=GOBB;15014795]Yes, they don’t play the same position. Not sure why that was said. Is Suggs the traditional PG? No. Is he still developing as a playmaker? Yes. Does Bane add shooting/playmaking the team needs since it relies on Fran and Paolo to be playmakers? Yes. Does Orlando have anyone that can run the offense? On paper no but they are banking on playmakers by committee it seems while hoping Suggs shows improvement in that department. Who by the way is a helluva defensive guard.
Suggs at the 1
Bane at the 2
Wags at the 3
Paolo at the 4
Carter at the 5
That’s a nice 5 in spite of how much they gave up for Bane. Also expensive after checking salaries. Bench wise? Not sure. They still have a late first to maybe add something.[/QUOTE]
Bench is comprised of Black and Da Silva who can play but are extremely young. Mo Wagner was a 6MOY candidate til his ACL popped so who knows how he’ll bounce back. Isaac regressed drastically this year. Rest of the bench is garbage. All in all, the bench isn’t very good. We’ll see what we add as the offseason goes on
[QUOTE=theman93;15014804]Bench is comprised of Black and Da Silva who can play but are extremely young. Mo Wagner was a 6MOY candidate til his ACL popped so who knows how he’ll bounce back. Isaac regressed drastically this year. Rest of the bench is garbage. All in all, the bench isn’t very good. We’ll see what we add as the offseason goes on[/QUOTE]
You’re a Magic fan? Cool you’d have a better pulse on the team than I would. Curious what you guys will add in the offseason. You also have that late first rd pick. Obviously banking on rookies can be a stretch but there’s some quality prospects in the range of that first. And that’s typically where rotational/role players can be found. Obviously duds as well but thinking positive you at least have the options of finding some talent. Like anyone?
[QUOTE=theman93;15014801]Yeah but let’s not pretend like we weren’t hit with the injury bug to our best players worse than any other team this year. And by a mile. Arguing against that isn’t an argument in good faith.[/QUOTE]
Multiple teams had season-ending injuries to Allstars. They may not match the total number of missed games (although they also may, iI'm not going to bother counting) but losing a star in the playoffs is as bad as any number of missed games in the regular season. Regardless the winner of the woe-is-me Olympics doesn't matter. What's important is how good the season a team had is or is not.
[QUOTE=GOBB;15014806]You’re a Magic fan? Cool you’d have a better pulse on the team than I would. Curious what you guys will add in the offseason. You also have that late first rd pick. Obviously banking on rookies can be a stretch but there’s some quality prospects in the range of that first. And that’s typically where rotational/role players can be found. Obviously duds as well but thinking positive you at least have the options of finding some talent. Like anyone?[/QUOTE]
Well I’m not gonna pretend to be an expert on what FA’s are out there we can afford or what other trade scenario’s are possible, but imo our 3 biggest needs are 3 point shooting, playmaking off the bench, and a C. Obviously Bane is hopefully a large solution to the lack of 3 point shooting, but we need more spacing off the bench and Franz needs to fix that nasty hitch in his shot. I think the FO is going to bank on Black, Da Silva, or Jett taking a step as reserves, but that’s just a hunch. Regarding C, WCJr plays way too soft way too often (for my liking anyways) and he isn’t really a rim protector, Moe will be coming off an ACL so there’s a possibility we may not even re-sign him, and Goga wasn’t really impressive as the season rolled on even though we just signed him to a 3y-24m deal last offseason. Not sure if Brook Lopez would be affordable, but if so, adding him while offloading WCJr and/or Isaac to bolster other areas of weakness would be ideal to me. If not then the trio of WCJr/Moe/Goga is atleast serviceable.
Edit: Nevermind
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014807]Multiple teams had season-ending injuries to Allstars. They may not match the total number of missed games (although they also may, iI'm not going to bother counting) but losing a star in the playoffs is as bad as any number of missed games in the regular season. Regardless the winner of the woe-is-me Olympics doesn't matter. What's important is how good the season a team had is or is not.[/QUOTE]
Postseason injuries are irrelevant here. We're talking about an inordinate amount of injuries that occurred in the regular season that lead to Orlando being a play-in team. The only other team that even comes close is Dallas who's top 3 players of Kyrie/Doncic (replaced by AD)/Klay missed a combined 93 games. This also doesn't even include Moe who was a leading 6MOY candidate before tearing his ACL leading to him missing 52 games as well.
The issue here is you seem to be arguing Orlando is just a meddling play-in team while offering no context. Anybody arguing in good faith would recognize how large of a toll the injuries had on our win total.
Of course the playoffs are important. Jimmy Butler led a play in team to the Finals and that's why we don't remember that Heat team as being just a play in team. If a team is a serious factor they aren't going out 4-1 in the first round. Teams are remembered for winning playoff games and hopefully championships. The basketball world doesn't care about a team possibly winning 48 games but instead getting 41. It's just another 500. basketball team. All of them have fans that could tell you about how they would have been better is some negative thing that happened didn't happen. It happened.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014844]Of course the playoffs are important. Jimmy Butler led a play in team to the Finals and that's why we don't remember that Heat team as being just a play in team. If a team is a serious factor they aren't going out 4-1 in the first round. Teams are remembered for winning playoff games and hopefully championships. The basketball world doesn't care about a team possibly winning 48 games but instead getting 41. It's just another 500. basketball team. All of them have fans that could tell you about how they would have been better is some negative thing that happened didn't happen. It happened.[/QUOTE]
And no one thought Dallas would be a factor in 2024 when they missed the playoffs in 2023. That’s a pretty bad argument. Players improve, additions are made, injuries can bite you less, etc. The writing is on the wall for Orlando to make a leap.
Not the move orlando
What does Dallas have to do with Orlando? That comparison makes no sense.
Saw on ESPN that the trade is actually Cole Anthony, KCP, and 5 first round picks or pick swaps.
I'm pointing out that just because a team was not a serious factor the year prior, does not mean they won't be a serious factor the following season. Dallas is the perfect example of that. Do you disagree?
I am pointing out the fact that almost no one leaps from the lottery to the Finals. In fact Dallas tanked deciding that a lottery pick was more valuable than being a play-in team. And that doesn't begin to touch on the fact we are talking about two completely different rosters. It's not relevant.
What is relevant is the fact that the Magic potentially gave up a Tom Thibodeau rotation for one player that has yet to make the allstar team. Bane is good I don't want to sound disrespectful of him but to be worth four first and a first round pick swap we should be talking about one of the best guards in the league. He could go out there, average a very consistent 20/5/5 for the next four years and help Orlando make playoff runs lasting between 6 and 10 games consistently. Problem is they could be that level of team without him. They gave up 5 or 6 potential rotation players, depending on how you look at it, along with two guys that have shown they are good enough to play some minutes in the NBA. The draft is part of how teams are infused with fresh talent, in fact its the main way. If you screw it up for a long period of time you potentially waste your franchise player's early years. They hit themselves with the Joe Smith penalty.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014866]I am pointing out the fact that almost no one leaps from the lottery to the Finals. In fact Dallas tanked deciding that a lottery pick was more valuable than being a play-in team. And that doesn't begin to touch on the fact we are talking about two completely different rosters. It's not relevant.
What is relevant is the fact that the Magic potentially gave up a Tom Thibodeau rotation for one player that has yet to make the allstar team. Bane is good I don't want to sound disrespectful of him but to be worth four first and a first round pick swap we should be talking about one of the best guards in the league. He could go out there, average a very consistent 20/5/5 for the next four years and help Orlando make playoff runs lasting between 6 and 10 games consistently. Problem is they could be that level of team without him. They gave up 5 or 6 potential rotation players, depending on how you look at it, along with two guys that have shown they are good enough to play some minutes in the NBA. The draft is part of how teams are infused with fresh talent, in fact its the main way. If you screw it up for a long period of time you potentially waste your franchise player's early years. They hit themselves with the Joe Smith penalty.[/QUOTE]
Lol it's completely relevant, it just counters your argument. The same exact scenario happened to Phoenix in 2020/2021. The fact is mediocre teams can go on to compete for championships with the right roster construction and player development.
Regarding the trade specifically, Cole is a below average shooter and undersized defender who gets taken advantage of. Not much of a loss. KCP can play, but he had a horrendous year and Bane is a significant upgrade. Losing four 1st round picks isn't ideal, but considering these picks will mostly be in the 20's while also over the next 3 drafts still having Denver's 1st this year and our 2027 1st I'm not really worried about it. That's in addition to Black, Da Silva, and Howard who just finished either their rookie or sophomore campaigns. We have plenty of young talent to still develop.
They have Banchero on his rookie deal for one or two more seasons...so I guess it makes sense to go all in.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014866]I am pointing out the fact that almost no one leaps from the lottery to the Finals. In fact Dallas tanked deciding that a lottery pick was more valuable than being a play-in team. And that doesn't begin to touch on the fact we are talking about two completely different rosters. It's not relevant.
What is relevant is the fact that the Magic potentially gave up a Tom Thibodeau rotation for one player that has yet to make the allstar team. Bane is good I don't want to sound disrespectful of him but to be worth four first and a first round pick swap we should be talking about one of the best guards in the league. He could go out there, average a very consistent 20/5/5 for the next four years and help Orlando make playoff runs lasting between 6 and 10 games consistently. Problem is they could be that level of team without him. They gave up 5 or 6 potential rotation players, depending on how you look at it, along with two guys that have shown they are good enough to play some minutes in the NBA. The draft is part of how teams are infused with fresh talent, in fact its the main way. If you screw it up for a long period of time you potentially waste your franchise player's early years. They hit themselves with the Joe Smith penalty.[/QUOTE]
And Thibs hasn't been close to winning a title since he was an assistant in Boston. He's 48-55 in the Playoffs as HC.
Magic still has a great defense and now they've addressed their biggest need. Those 5-6 potential rotation players are not really worth keeping when you already have a talented young cast and are close to being a contender in the East.
Magic didn't want to be another EC team that's great on defense and below-average on offense. Bane makes a lot of sense for them and he has a team-friendly contract as an all-star caliber SG.
[QUOTE=theman93;15014869]Lol it's completely relevant, it just counters your argument. The same exact scenario happened to Phoenix in 2020/2021. The fact is mediocre teams can go on to compete for championships with the right roster construction and player development.
Regarding the trade specifically, Cole is a below average shooter and undersized defender who gets taken advantage of. Not much of a loss. KCP can play, but he had a horrendous year and Bane is a significant upgrade. Losing four 1st round picks isn't ideal, but considering these picks will mostly be in the 20's while also over the next 3 drafts still having Denver's 1st this year and our 2027 1st I'm not really worried about it. That's in addition to Black, Da Silva, and Howard who just finished either their rookie or sophomore campaigns. We have plenty of young talent to still develop.[/QUOTE] There is no relevance. Neither Dallas nor Phoenix have anything to do with Orlando. So you have any idea how many more .500 teams go on to never make a conference Final? Your examples have nothing to do with anything.
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15014884]And Thibs hasn't been close to winning a title since he was an assistant in Boston. He's 48-55 in the Playoffs as HC.[/QUOTE] No idea why you brought this up.
[QUOTE]Magic still has a great defense and now they've addressed their biggest need. Those 5-6 potential rotation players are not really worth keeping when you already have a talented young cast and are close to being a contender in the East.
[/QUOTE]If you have a good front office you will get some good players out of 5 first round picks. You miss on all five first rounders your GM needs to be replaced.
[Quote]Magic didn't want to be another EC team that's great on defense and below-average on offense. Bane makes a lot of sense for them and he has a team-friendly contract as an all-star caliber SG.[/Quote] Bane makes sense for 2 or 3 picks. 5 picks should be getting you a star. Overpaying for talent is never a good idea.
This trade is only as good as the draft picks Memphis got.
KCP is past prime and Anthony is average.
Orlando is immediately better.
JJJ should go without question if they’re making big moves. Hideously overpaid and barely above average. Bane’s been better his entire career.
Make no mistake, Memphis just traded it’s longtime second best player.
Orlando is just trying to copy what the Knicks did the previous season with Mikal Bridges. They they traded for bridges they gave up:
Bojan Bogdanovic
Mamadi Diakite
Shake Milton
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2025
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2027
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2029
unprotected 1st-round pick in 2031
unprotected pick swap in 2028
top-four protected 2025 1st-round pick via Bucks
2nd round pick in 2025
[QUOTE=Meticode;15014721]We'll see. Two small guard lineups don't work in today's NBA usually. Especially when one has t-rex arms. Hopefully Bane can find his form from two and three seasons ago. He regressed this past season.[/QUOTE]
Suggs is a small guard?
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15014890]There is no relevance. Neither Dallas nor Phoenix have anything to do with Orlando. So you have any idea how many more .500 teams go on to never make a conference Final? Your examples have nothing to do with anything.[/QUOTE]
That’s not what I’m arguing. I’m paralleling similar situations which Orlando is trying to emulate. I get it you don’t like giving up that many assets, but Cole and KCP had negative trade value and we still have four 1st rounders over the next 7 years. That’s fine by me to upgrade our biggest weakness that’s been a black eye on this franchise for years.
[QUOTE=theman93;15014913]That’s not what I’m arguing. I’m paralleling similar situations which Orlando is trying to emulate. I get it you don’t like giving up that many assets, but Cole and KCP had negative trade value and we still have four 1st rounders over the next 7 years. That’s fine by me to upgrade our biggest weakness that’s been a black eye on this franchise for years.[/QUOTE]
:yaohappy::yaohappy::yaohappy:
[QUOTE=ralph_i_el;15014910]Suggs is a small guard?[/QUOTE]
Tinny tiny.
[QUOTE=theman93;15014773]We had to because we’ve been one of the worst 3 point shooting teams the past few years. Indiana isn’t some world beater. Finally give Paolo and Franz some space to operate and I see no reason why we can’t compete for the East.[/QUOTE]
They ain't winning shit lmao. At least not in the next few years.
RMWG is having a meltdown because his tatum got f.ucked and now magic are legit better than Boston.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
The obsession with me isn't as unhealthy as the freak addiction but it's still unhealthy. I would tell you to go outside and maybe you could make a friend but I would be lying.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15015018]The obsession with me isn't as unhealthy as the freak addiction but it's still unhealthy. I would tell you to go outside and maybe you could make a friend but I would be lying.[/QUOTE]
What are you thinking happens for the Celtics this offseason in reference to them cutting salary? What are you hoping for?
[QUOTE=Meticode;15015021]What [QUOTE] q¹q 1¹[/QUOTE]are you thinking happens for the Celtics this offseason in reference to them cutting salary? What are you hoping for?[/QUOTE]It's not what I want but the combination of missed games, salary, and in Holiday's case, age, make me think that Stevens is going to move Porzingis and Holiday. This is all of course forced by the second apron and further forced by Tatum's injury. I can't blame the new ownership at all for not wanting to pay half a billion for 45 to 50 wins. With Tatum out for a year unless some team is willing to give up a replacement star for Tatum (not likely) a miniature rebuild is in order. Give JB a 50 game season to keep him healthy and see if they can get a lottery pick. Then after a year under the bleeping apron with a lottery pick and some more picks from moving Porzingis and Holiday pray Tatum comes back strong and see what they can do.
Porzingod has aids anyway and the Cs were going to get crushed by the no offense playing Knicks.. window closed.
Huge overpay from the magic but Bane can hit the 3 and he’s better than the scrubs kcpoop and bench warmer cole.. who knows that the picks would have been. Unless they’re top 3 prob not even that valuable anyway.
Magic don’t have a bad squad now, just need a few small pieces