So their management really wasn't too high on the team a year from now? They haven't completely blown it up but this is pretty significant. What's the plan here?
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So their management really wasn't too high on the team a year from now? They haven't completely blown it up but this is pretty significant. What's the plan here?
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15017492]So their management really wasn't too high on the team a year from now? They haven't completely blown it up but this is pretty significant. What's the plan here?[/QUOTE]
Get under 2nd apron. Maybe under tax. Flexibility and assets until ttatum comes back. What else would they do?
[QUOTE=tpols;15017486]That was the only time he showed up.
You guys didn't even really need him for the 1st three rounds given context of what your opponents were.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, what he clearly meant was he can't be relied on to be [U]available[/U] when the lights are brightest. In the rare moments he's been healthy on the big stage he's played great. Unfortunately that constituted about 1 playoff series over the course of 2 years, and a couple season openers/national TV games against the Knicks where he would always go off.
He is a nice fit on paper with the Hawks. Not gonna expect him to have a healthy successful season next year based on his track record but it is possible, and would be cool if he does. I honestly think the Hawks are potentially a better fit than Dallas OR Boston were in terms of maximizing his particular skills. Him and Trae will have kind of a "my giant" thing going on, and the two of them could be a deadly combination on offense. Also helps a lot getting an elite shot blocker behind Trae. With Atlanta's emerging young guys on the perimeter I think it can be a formidable team on paper, but a big part of it will be gelling and developing quality basketball chemistry. If they all buy in I think COTM can get more out of this team than could ever have been expected of him with Rudy's Jazz.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;15017501]Yeah, what he clearly meant was he can't be relied on to be [U]available[/U] when the lights are brightest. In the rare moments he's been healthy on the big stage he's played great. Unfortunately that constituted about 1 playoff series over the course of 2 years, and a couple season openers/national TV games against the Knicks where he would always go off.
He is a nice fit on paper with the Hawks. Not gonna expect him to have a healthy successful season next year based on his track record but it is possible, and would be cool if he does. I honestly think the Hawks are potentially a better fit than Dallas OR Boston were in terms of maximizing his particular skills. Him and Trae will have kind of a "my giant" thing going on, and the two of them could be a deadly combination on offense. Also helps a lot getting an elite shot blocker behind Trae. With Atlanta's emerging young guys on the perimeter I think it can be a formidable team on paper, but a big part of it will be gelling and developing quality basketball chemistry. If they all buy in I think COTM can get more out of this team than could ever have been expected of him with Rudy's Jazz.[/QUOTE]
More talented on paper. Dont have a fuy that has carried bad teams though. Luckily cotm is in the east
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15017499]Get under 2nd apron. Maybe under tax. Flexibility and assets until ttatum comes back. What else would they do?[/QUOTE]
I dunno, maybe let their proven championship core develop even more reliability without their top guy and then go win another one? (With zero financial consideration obviously)
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15017521]I dunno, maybe let their proven championship core develop even more reliability without their top guy and then go win another one? (With zero financial consideration obviously)[/QUOTE]
The problem with that statement is that the rebuild is being driven mainly by financial consideration, somewhat also by the expectation Tatum won't play next year. Before trades the luxury tax penalties are coin ng to cissy ownership a half billion in total for payroll and then without Tatum they are at best a 50 win second round team in a normal year. Owners decided that was too much to pay. If you ignore the money the Porzingis trade would be crazy. You consider that second apron money though and it makes sense it's just not something that as fans we're going to care about.
Little flexibility in the 2nd apron. Multiple years in a row paying tax also a penalty sp it makes sense to look towards 2026-27. Id think you keep brown ideally.
Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15017525]The problem with that statement is that the rebuild is being driven mainly by financial consideration, somewhat also by the expectation Tatum won't play next year. Before trades the luxury tax penalties are coin ng to cissy ownership a half billion in total for payroll and then without Tatum they are at best a 50 win second round team in a normal year. Owners decided that was too much to pay. If you ignore the money the Porzingis trade would be crazy. You consider that second apron money though and it makes sense it's just not something that as fans we're going to care about.[/QUOTE]
Completely understand that, I think what bothers me is they didn't get a player that moves the needle in return. Im not a C's fan but from where im sitting Porzingas was that last piece to get them over the hump. If they were my team I'd hate to see them build a champion then pivot away a year later. We saw Dallas do that and not reach the finals again for a while.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15017529]Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.[/QUOTE]
Believable. Ainge drafted him after all. I think it may be hard for Ainge and Stevens to come to an agreement on such a major asset though. Stevens had already dealt with the second apron issue so he's free to focus exclusively on improving the roster/assets in any deals. He and Ainge both have a history of getting the better end of the deal in big trades, so how do Utah and Boston both win big in a deal?
Stevens isn't letting the Jazz have Brown unless they give up their pick
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15017537]Completely understand that, I think what bothers me is they didn't get a player that moves the needle in return. Im not a C's fan but from where im sitting Porzingas was that last piece to get them over the hump. If they were my team I'd hate to see them build a champion then pivot away a year later. We saw Dallas do that and not reach the finals again for a while.[/QUOTE]
I'm not enjoying these trades I just understand why they're happening. My hope going into this, which is still alive, was that they do enough to get below second apron while keeping a good amount of talent and come back with Tatum and Brown in 2026. KP and Holiday were as good as it gets when it comes to a supporting cast but Holiday is missing games, may be getting old and Porzingis just can't stay on the floor making it tough to become a team that gets used to him scoring and protecting the basket and then he's gone for whole playoff series. They got nothing but cap relief for Porzingis but they even managed to get a good player back when they traded Holiday. All things considered if they keep the rest of the team reasonably intact I won't be mad at the new owner.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15017529]Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.[/QUOTE]
Not surprising with 2 ainges and their treasure trove of assets
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;15017529]Shams is saying the Jazz are making significant offers for brown.[/QUOTE]
The Celtics are about to be the Charlotte Hornets.
:roll:
[QUOTE=tpols;15017549]The Celtics are about to be the Charlotte Hornets.
:roll:[/QUOTE]
Like they were before tatum/brown or like theyvwere before kg and allen?
With the framework of pick five and a few other expiring contracts, it'd likely put the expiring deals John Collins, Collin Sexton and Jordan Clarkson in the package to match Brown's $53 million salary for the 2025-26 season, and could even include a young player/draft pick compensation along with to sweeten the pot for Boston.
Would mss sexton. Hopefully not hendricks or collier
Zingis stock is criminally undervalued. Celtics don't win that ring without him.
I bet he'll show up and make Trae look good. Pick and Pop all day.
Better odds that hes on the sidelines like most of his career
[QUOTE=90sgoat;15017569]Zingis stock is criminally undervalued. Celtics don't win that ring without him.
I bet he'll show up and make Trae look good. Pick and Pop all day.[/QUOTE]
We know they don't. They didn't win a ring without him this season. Problem is he's usually not on the court when it matters.
[QUOTE=90sgoat;15017569]Zingis stock is criminally undervalued. Celtics don't win that ring without him.
I bet he'll show up and make Trae look good. Pick and Pop all day.[/QUOTE]
We know they don't. They didn't win a ring without him this season. Problem is he's usually not on the court when it matters.
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15017537]Completely understand that, I think what bothers me is they didn't get a player that moves the needle in return. Im not a C's fan but from where im sitting Porzingas was that last piece to get them over the hump. If they were my team I'd hate to see them build a champion then pivot away a year later. We saw Dallas do that and not reach the finals again for a while.[/QUOTE]
You dont seem to understand how terrified of the 2nd apron these teams are. These owners start losing out on millons. The Celtic owner would be paying 100's of millions of dollars every year in repeater tax. Thats never going to happen. Maybe the clippers. no one else can afford to burn 100's of millions of dollars except steve ballmer who has more money than every other nba owner combined. We are closer to the Celtics owners in lifestyle than they are to steve ballmer....let that sink in
They dont care about moving the needle. The new owner told the gm to get under the luxury tax by any means.
This is a business after all.
rest in piss 2015-2025 Celtics run. its finally over. they are finally gone
priz is to tall ,, for his frame .. but can be used 18-25 minutes a game if managed correctly.
Boston did not know what they had ...
[QUOTE=Jasper;15017610]priz is to tall ,, for his frame .. but can be used 18-25 minutes a game if managed correctly.
Boston did not know what they had ...[/QUOTE]
They knew. Made it a lot easier to trade him
[QUOTE=Meticode;15017581]We know they don't. They didn't win a ring without him this season. Problem is he's usually not on the court when it matters.[/QUOTE]
I'm surprised it was Hawks that got him. I could see a lot of contenders wanting to take a chance at him, particularly younger teams with good contracts.
Why didn't Houston get Zingis instead of Durant? Denver? Pacers?
Should have gotten rid of Brown instead. Overrated and overpaid.
[QUOTE=Gudo;15018060]Should have gotten rid of Brown instead. Overrated and overpaid.[/QUOTE]
What award has JB gotten in his entire career that he didn't deserve? The word "overrated" is frequently misused. As for who they should have/will gotten rid of, you will move Brown if you want to tank. He has led the team to 5 Conference Finals (and been part of 6). He's still under 30 but has done enough to get his jersey retired. On the flip side Porzingis has missed close to half the games in his time in Boston, a fact that people that want to act like he was just as important as Tatum and Brown always seem to ignore. He'll deserve his tribute video when the Hawks come to town but it's not even close.
We get it, you're a homer and you're willing to die on that hill. But nearly every advanced stat says that DeMar Derozan had a better offensive season than Brown last season. That's NASTY work considering DeRozan is 35, on the decline and paid less than half of Brown.
Yes, Brown is a much better defender, but it speaks to the absolute thoroughness of Brown's good-not-at-all great impact. He's an important cog of an overall well oiled machine and Celtics fans should have no reason to try and fix something that hasn't been broken this far. If the Celtics hold onto Brown, next year will cement his market level as the lead guy. If the team falls off a total cliff and Brown's stats are just as mediocre, his value will shrink 4 fold from its peak around 2.5 years ago.
[QUOTE=beasted;15018083]We get it, you're a homer and you're willing to die on that hill. But nearly every advanced stat says that DeMar Derozan had a better offensive season than Brown last season. That's NASTY work considering DeRozan is 35, on the decline and paid less than half of Brown.[/QUOTE]Demar Derozan had a Finals MVP award? He was an allstar? Guess I didn't notice. I guess all the GMS that contacted Boston trying to trade for JB must be Celtic homers too. You already died on the hill last year and at this point just seen to want attention.
[Quote]Yes, Brown is a much better defender,[/Quote]Are you sure? [QUOTE]but it speaks to the absolute thoroughness of Brown's good-not-at-all great impact. [/QUOTE]I know the Finals MVP award doesn't impress you much, but perhaps it could be used as a paperweight?[quote]He's an important cog of an overall well oiled machine and Celtics fans should have no reason to try and fix something that hasn't been broken this far. [/quote]No you've convinced me, they would be just as good with Derozan. Don't know why Stevens hasn't made the move yet, he could save a lot of money. Terrible GM.[quote]If the Celtics hold onto Brown, next year will cement his market level as the lead guy. If the team falls off a total cliff and Brown's stats are just as mediocre, his value will shrink 4 fold from its peak around 2.5 years ago.[/quote] Most mediocre all-star Finals MVP to ever make an AllNBA team?
[QUOTE=beasted;15018083]We get it, you're a homer and you're willing to die on that hill. But nearly every advanced stat says that DeMar Derozan had a better offensive season than Brown last season. That's NASTY work considering DeRozan is 35, on the decline and paid less than half of Brown.
Yes, Brown is a much better defender, but it speaks to the absolute thoroughness of Brown's good-not-at-all great impact. He's an important cog of an overall well oiled machine and Celtics fans should have no reason to try and fix something that hasn't been broken this far. If the Celtics hold onto Brown, next year will cement his market level as the lead guy. If the team falls off a total cliff and Brown's stats are just as mediocre, his value will shrink 4 fold from its peak around 2.5 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Well, it would make sense for them to let Brown put up career numbers next year and then move him when his value is at it's highest, right? He had a "meh" season and Playoffs and I don't think he's a great long-time partner for Tatum. Let him jack up 20+ shots a game and average 28 and move him for assets that make sense long-term.
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018114]Well, it would make sense for them to let Brown put up career numbers next year and then move him when his value is at it's highest, right? He had a "meh" season and Playoffs and I don't think he's a great long-time partner for Tatum. Let him jack up 20+ shots a game and average 28 and move him for assets that make sense long-term.[/QUOTE] They could have traded the "meh" allstar to Utah for their lottery pick, some players, and a general haul of assets. Then next year, with 4/5ths of the starting 5 gone, they have a lottery pick. But apparently the Celtics value Brown more than you and some of the posters on this board seem to. Meanwhile Brandon Ingram is on his threes team and counting. Go figure.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15018123]They could have traded the "meh" allstar to Utah for their lottery pick, some players, and a general haul of assets. Then next year, with 4/5ths of the starting 5 gone, they have a lottery pick. But apparently the Celtics value Brown more than you and some of the posters on this board seem to. Meanwhile Brandon Ingram is on his threes team and counting. Go figure.[/QUOTE]
Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..
There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax.
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018126]Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..
There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax.[/QUOTE]
Ingram is a Dion Waiters level player
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018126]Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..
There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax.[/QUOTE] Sure let's ignore the fact that Ingram was drafted by the Lakers and played with years of lottery picks as well as one of the greatest players of all time. A team that promptly won a championship after they traded him. And let's also ignore that in his second year Brown led the Celtics (alongside another one of your favorites) to the conference finals after the Celtics two best players got injured. But it's all because Ingram got drafted by the Pelicans (who didn't draft him).
Ingram would play d and stay hraltjy on a different franchise?
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;15018113]Demar Derozan had a Finals MVP award? He was an allstar? Guess I didn't notice. I guess all the GMS that contacted Boston trying to trade for JB must be Celtic homers too. You already died on the hill last year and at this point just seen to want attention.
Are you sure? I know the Finals MVP award doesn't impress you much, but perhaps it could be used as a paperweight?No you've convinced me, they would be just as good with Derozan. Don't know why Stevens hasn't made the move yet, he could save a lot of money. Terrible GM. Most mediocre all-star Finals MVP to ever make an AllNBA team?[/QUOTE]
I've already enumerated how Brown has something like the 3rd worst PPG for a Finals MVP over the last like 40 years. I have no clue why you keep harping on it. Someone from the winning team has to win it. Nobody is trying to take away his Finals MVP from him, so you can give it a rest.
But, ultimately, in the backdrop of comparison to other years Finals MVPs, he's literally statstically far below the average, which is not an opinion whatsoever. This is a clear indicator of his talent level overall.
As far as Brown's 2024-2025 regular season vs Derozan, I don't understand why you disagree with a pure fact since the 2023-2024 Finals MVP playoffs has nothing to do with it.
Derozan nearly across the board basic stats, advanced stats, comprehensive advanced stats like rAPM, basically universally in favor of DeRozan. Well, newsflash, nobody is raving about Derozan or how awesome of a player he is. Nearly everyone thinks of him as just a good solid player. The main problem is Brown is the 6th highest paid in the league, and Derozan is 70th, and nobody thinks Derozan is a underpaid.
Just say you hate facts and are biased.
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018114]Well, it would make sense for them to let Brown put up career numbers next year and then move him when his value is at it's highest, right? He had a "meh" season and Playoffs and I don't think he's a great long-time partner for Tatum. Let him jack up 20+ shots a game and average 28 and move him for assets that make sense long-term.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that would be the best case scenario and great for them. If he has a Beal type season where he puts up inflated stats far above his usual, he will fetch a king's ransom. I could literally envision a Paul George haul.
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15018126]Who's to say Jaylen Brown wouldn't have Ingram's career trajectory if he played on the Pelicans as well? Jaylen had years to develop on stacked teams that were coached well as a role player before turning into a star while BI played for one of the worst franchises in the league that still have no idea what they're doing to this day..
There are people here that argued to me in another thread that Bane's 40 million was too much, but apparently paying 50-60 million a year for a guy who puts up 22 points on mediocre efficiency because he can't shoot 3s is well worth the supermax.[/QUOTE]
You get it. There's been 1 season from Brown to indicate he's can be much better than Ingram, but otherwise he's been slightly better as an individual, more durable, and had benefited from his team's success.
[QUOTE=beasted;15018143]I've already enumerated how Brown has something like the 3rd worst PPG for a Finals MVP over the last like 40 years. I have no clue why you keep harping on it. Someone from the winning team has to win it. Nobody is trying to take away his Finals MVP from him, so you can give it a rest.[/QUOTE]I point out that he was the finals MVP because he was the finals MVP. He played great defense on the opposing superstar, hit major baskets for the Celtics throughout the playoffs and was a great leader in and out the court. You don't have to like it.
[QUOTE]But, ultimately, in the backdrop of comparison to other years Finals MVPs, he's literally statstically far below the average, which is not an opinion whatsoever. This is a clear indicator of his talent level overall.[/QUOTE] This statement is a clear indicator of your opinion, which doesn't seem particularly important to the Celtics, so they signed him to that huge deal and have rebuffed the various offers from other teams that apparently wish they could overpay him.
[QUOTE]As far as Brown's 2024-2025 regular season vs Derozan, I don't understand why you disagree with a pure fact since the 2023-2024 Finals MVP playoffs has nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] The only fact I see here is that you're a stat dork losing an argument.
[QUOTE]Derozan nearly across the board basic stats, advanced stats, comprehensive advanced stats like rAPM, basically universally in favor of DeRozan. Well, newsflash, nobody is raving about Derozan or how awesome of a player he is. Nearly everyone thinks of him as just a good solid player. The main problem is Brown is the 6th highest paid in the league, and Derozan is 70th, and nobody thinks Derozan is a underpaid.[/QUOTE] Let me know when Derozan plays great defense on Luka Doncic in the finals em route to the Finals MVP. No one is raving about "rAPM" period because it's only nerds like you bringing that crap up after a star leads a team to the championship.
[Quote]Just say you hate facts and are biased.[/Quote]Or you will what, continue to be wrong? That's going to happen regardless of whether or not my post makes you feel better about yourself.
I'll leave it at this, RE:
[QUOTE]This statement is a clear indicator of your opinion, which doesn't seem particularly important to the Celtics, so they signed him to that huge deal and have rebuffed the various offers from other teams that apparently wish they could overpay him.[/QUOTE]
People were lining up to trade for Beal 2 years ago. People were lining up give Paul George his latest contract. People were lining up to get Markkanen.
People in high places in basketball make absolute shit decisions on a constant basis, just like Blazers trading away 32 year old expiring contract Jrue Holiday for Brogdon and a 1st 2 years ago, and then trading back for him 2.5 years later by giving up Simons and two 2nd rounders when he's making $34M for the next 3 years and is over 35.
Ultimately most of the time I've seen non perennial allstars get a max contract, it always ends the Beal, Middleton route. The good thing is the Celtics seem to be very smart in being able to fleece teams into taking garbage.
So, as a fan, I totally understand you don't believe there is much risk in paying Brown what he's paid. Again, what's not broken, don't try to fix. He's been a key contributor to winning and they're going to try and ride that until they need to dump him.
One more correction: Jaylen Brown is a perennial allstar. The difference between the Celtics and these teams you say are doing the wrong things is that they've consistently had a high level of success with Brown. There is a huge difference between Brown, a guy that can guard Luka Doncic for an entire finals and have that be a key factor in the Celtics winning and Derozan, who I'm going to guess no one can recall doing something like that on defense. Making the conference finals as many times as they have with Brown you would think people would realize that they know what they're doing. Guess not.