The LeBron fanbase is dying down

[QUOTE=Soundwave;15022417]The noise will die down for LeBron the same way it did for Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe. He's not a cultural icon in that sense in the way Jordan or Muhammad Ali were. Case in point ... do kids even give a shit about his Space Jam movie that's only like 4 or 5 years old?[/QUOTE]

Let's be honest. Even the noise for MJ has died down since about 2005 or so. Growing up, there wasn't anyone touching him, with LeBron coming into the league, there is an actual debate now. Most didn't think that was possible. To be honest, what hurts MJ the most is his lack of longevity, people will use that against him in future debates.

Ali is a culture icon, but most knowledgeable boxing fans don't even have him as the GOAT. That goes to Sugar Ray Robinson.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15022444]To be honest, what hurts MJ the most is his lack of longevity, people will use that against him in future debates.[/QUOTE]

[B][SIZE=5]BULLSHIT.[/SIZE][/B]

The only people that use that argument are LeBron jockriders and only because they're desperate to force the debate, you guys KNOW there's no actual debate but you grasp at straws.

STFU already, the debate was over in 2011, everyone else came to that conclusion 14 years ago.

[QUOTE=bullettooth;15022449][B][SIZE=5]BULLSHIT.[/SIZE][/B]

The only people that use that argument are LeBron jockriders and only because they're desperate to force the debate, you guys KNOW there's no actual debate but you grasp at straws.

STFU already, the debate was over in 2011, everyone else came to that conclusion 14 years ago.[/QUOTE]

MJ has the GOAT peak, but longevity does hurt his case. MJ only has 11 seasons where he dominated and was considered a superstar.

LeBron has like 18 seasons of that. You can't just ignore the edge he has in that department.

Longevity is the reason why we rank Karl ahead of Barkley, or Magic ahead of Bird. Barkley & Bird had better peaks, but Malone & Magic have the longevity edge.

[QUOTE=Walk on Water;15022384]I don't know what reality you're living in. Lebron is not a top 10 player and you know it homey. You know it deep down.[/QUOTE]

You truly can't believe that. Whenever LeBron is brought up, he's constantly compared to MJ and what he did throughout his career.

Objectively, the worst you can have LeBron all time is 3rd.

[QUOTE=Soundwave;15022417]The noise will die down for LeBron the same way it did for Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Kobe. He's not a cultural icon in that sense in the way Jordan or Muhammad Ali were. Case in point ... do kids even give a shit about his Space Jam movie that's only like 4 or 5 years old?

No, they don't. It left no lasting impact whatsoever.

Magic was thought of as the GOAT prior to 1991 by a lot of people (or Kareem) and no one cared by 1998 or so, that's a period of only a few years, I know even by 1992-93, no one gave a shit about Kareem, it was all about Jordan, Barkley, etc. for 90s kids even though Kareem had not been retired for that long at that point.

Jordan is just an outlier for a couple of reasons, first the mentality (that Kobe tried to copy with the Mamba Mentality stuff) with the hyper-competitiveness and the "And I took that personally" (which has become a pop culture phrase/meme) appeals to non-basketball fans too. Gym bros/UFC fans/life improvement women/runners/Tiktokers etc. love that "unique mindset on life" stuff.

LeBron doesn't really have any of that going for him, he's just 6'9 and talented at basketball, but isn't that relatable to people.

The other thing is the enduring success of the Air Jordan brand as a fashion statement, even now while overall basketball sneaker sales are down virtually across the board for everyone, the Jordan segment at Nike was up in sales even though Nike Basketball is down, lol. The Air Jordan I, III, IV, IX, and XI especially are iconic, and the XIII also popular, LeBron has no iconic sneaker.

And no, whether this thread is 3 pages or 10 pages of the same 8 people posting in it doesn't change any of that either, lol. In 4 years a kid getting into basketball is going to be interested in Wemby or Flagg or someone like that, not LeBron.[/QUOTE]

What makes you so sure? Or is it just wishful thinking? Lebron is embedded in culture hader than any player since Mj, hes alot more accessible and I imagine he will continue to be going forward since hes already launched a career in media. Magic has actually stayed relevant for a long time and remained an ambassador to the game while Mj never filled this role. If there's anything I hold against Mike as a longtime fan its that he never gave back to the game once he walked away. And before you start with shoes and mythology complexes, I mean he walked away from the fans too. He rarely did interviews. Never did television all the way until a certain someone began to pose a threat to his foothold. I grew up watching guys Iike magic and dr.j join commentary, later we saw Shaq and Barkley, now we've got guys like Wade. Imo we need these guys to help hype the next generation's stars to help the game the same way it helped them. Oh and for the record.....[B]WE[/B] meaning those of us that were teens/kids when spacejam came out didn't give a shit about it not long after release either. It just holds an unwarranted nostalgic place in my heart, kinda like killer clowns from outter space, and he-man.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15022442]Yet, you are still debating if LeBron is GOAT or not after you said he wasn't seriously debated as GOAT. With you continuing to post in this thread, you are only giving more power to LeBron.

[IMG]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FfDQiG23bfZsSk%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=83c64ca57e685c05303a325606362b6c70fe7d0af31e0359a5ee38d3ea48fa3b[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Nice try.

I've noticed that with you I have to repeat myself a lot. I said that the only people who try to say Lebron is in the GOAT conversation are a handful of low IQ Bronie fluffers and ESPN contributors.

I'm pretty sure you're not an ESPN contributor...... :lol

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15022453]What makes you so sure? Or is it just wishful thinking? Lebron is embedded in culture hader than any player since Mj, hes alot more accessible and I imagine he will continue to be going forward since hes already launched a career in media. Magic has actually stayed relevant for a long time and remained an ambassador to the game while Mj never filled this role. If there's anything I hold against Mike as a longtime fan its that he never gave back to the game once he walked away. And before you start with shoes and mythology complexes, I mean he walked away from the fans too. He rarely did interviews. Never did television all the way until a certain someone began to pose a threat to his foothold. I grew up watching guys Iike magic and dr.j join commentary, later we saw Shaq and Barkley, now we've got guys like Wade. Imo we need these guys to help hype the next generation's stars to help the game the same way it helped them. Oh and for the record.....[B]WE[/B] meaning those of us that were teens/kids when spacejam came out didn't give a shit about it not long after release either. It just holds an unwarranted nostalgic place in my heart, kinda like killer clowns from outter space, and he-man.[/QUOTE]

LeBron will be like Magic ... still known but like most of the younger generation will move on quickly. By 1998 the average basketball fan wasn't talking about Magic and certainly the younger kids didn't give a crap. He still has value as a sport ambassador and sure LeBron can be like that, just as Bird/Magic/Shaq continue to be. Dr. J and Walton were staples on NBC after retirement.

You have to completely transcend your sport to have impact like decades after retirement though, there's only a small handful of athletes that qualify for that and Jordan is basically the only basketball player in that category. Jordan, Ali, Babe Ruth, and then the list gets very thin after that.

And part of Jordan's mystique may well be helped by the fact that he's inaccessible. He doesn't put himself out on social media every 10 damn minutes, so it's an event when he shows up anywhere or chooses to do something or even gives a simple interview.

I was a teenager when Space Jam came out, it was notable release even when it released and the soundtrack was popular. LeBron's version will be completely and utterly forgotten. He's just a good basketball player, he doesn't transcend the sport.

[QUOTE=Soundwave;15022529]LeBron will be like Magic ... still known but like most of the younger generation will move on quickly. By 1998 the average basketball fan wasn't talking about Magic and certainly the younger kids didn't give a crap. He still has value as a sport ambassador and sure LeBron can be like that, just as Bird/Magic/Shaq continue to be. Dr. J and Walton were staples on NBC after retirement.

You have to completely transcend your sport to have impact like decades after retirement though, there's only a small handful of athletes that qualify for that and Jordan is basically the only basketball player in that category. Jordan, Ali, Babe Ruth, and then the list gets very thin after that.

And part of Jordan's mystique may well be helped by the fact that he's inaccessible. He doesn't put himself out on social media every 10 damn minutes, so it's an event when he shows up anywhere or chooses to do something or even gives a simple interview.

I was a teenager when Space Jam came out, it was notable release even when it released and the soundtrack was popular. LeBron's version will be completely and utterly forgotten. [B]He's just a good basketball player, he doesn't transcend the sport.[/B][/QUOTE]

Bingo.

You ask a random person off the street in say Cambodia or Iran, if they've ever heard of LeBron and they'll likely say NO but if you ask about MJ, they'll say of course. MJ had and still has the kind of global reach that Michael Jackson did.

[QUOTE=bullettooth;15022546]Bingo.

You ask a random person off the street in say Cambodia or Iran, if they've ever heard of LeBron and they'll likely say NO but if you ask about MJ, they'll say of course. MJ had and still has the kind of global reach that Michael Jackson did.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure that most people around the globe have heard of Lebron. However, you can probably attribute that to Jordan's initial global reach for the game.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15022547]I'm sure that most people around the globe have heard of Lebron. However, you can probably attribute that to Jordan's initial global reach for the game.[/QUOTE]
I'd even wager more people worldwide have heard of LeBron now than a guy who's been retired for over 20 years, or they're at least comparable. Acting like Jordan has such a significant edge in recognition is comical. They act like we're talking about SGA or something :lol

[QUOTE=Soundwave;15022529]LeBron will be like Magic ... still known but like most of the younger generation will move on quickly. By 1998 the average basketball fan wasn't talking about Magic and certainly the younger kids didn't give a crap. He still has value as a sport ambassador and sure LeBron can be like that, just as Bird/Magic/Shaq continue to be. Dr. J and Walton were staples on NBC after retirement.

You have to completely transcend your sport to have impact like decades after retirement though, there's only a small handful of athletes that qualify for that and Jordan is basically the only basketball player in that category. Jordan, Ali, Babe Ruth, and then the list gets very thin after that.

And part of Jordan's mystique may well be helped by the fact that he's inaccessible. He doesn't put himself out on social media every 10 damn minutes, so it's an event when he shows up anywhere or chooses to do something or even gives a simple interview.

I was a teenager when Space Jam came out, it was notable release even when it released and the soundtrack was popular. LeBron's version will be completely and utterly forgotten. He's just a good basketball player, he doesn't transcend the sport.[/QUOTE]

You guys have such a narrow worldview when it comes to Lebron. How about Mjs name never got to fade becuase hes stayed tied to guys like a Kobe, and later Lebron. We didn't allow his name to fade with these debates, and because we grew up with him as an idolistic figure. Those no longer exist. This era of society doesn't allow icons or for people to "transcend" their sports or any other branch of entertainment. That was a simpler time, for simpler people. The world is a completely different place since the 90s. We have too much access to everyone. And i do agree that his inaccessibility kept his image from being tarnished and dissected like modern athletes are. Im sure it was a strategic move and fair play to him, but that doesn't mean hes somehow exempt from the same scrutiny as the guys we compare him to. And I'll reiterate it again, i was a teenager when spacejam dropped as well, nobody gave a damn about it once the novelty of a new movie wore off. The most enduring aspect of the movie was R.Kelly's timeless somg from the soundtrack. Im pretty sure you think Jordan was in the studio writing the song for Kelly though.

[QUOTE=Walk on Water;15022004]They aren’t as big anymore and aren’t as loud. That’s what it seems like. The ones that are left come across as trolls just trying to get attention. They have weak arguments and will say things such as “Jordan quit and played baseball.” These arguments aren’t working anymore.

Then you have the Lakers fans who say they don’t care if LeBron gets traded. You see now that they have less reason to root for LeBron, they no longer exaggerate his value as a player. Jordan had one all star and won 6 championships. LeBron had 7 all stars and won 4, even if you count the bubble. LeBron lost 6 championships. Shot 35 pct against the Spurs and got outscored by Jason Terry. Jordan would never shoot 35 pct on 6 turnovers and only score 22 and he would never get out scored by Jason Terry.[/QUOTE]


The fanbase isn't dead. This platform is dead. There's no enjoyable discussion here. Only boring repetitive Lebron garbage like from OP and 3ball. There's so many other interesting platforms out there. Discussion here is for the people who have no social skills and want to remain anon.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15022577]You guys have such a narrow worldview when it comes to Lebron. How about Mjs name never got to fade becuase hes stayed tied to guys like a Kobe, and later Lebron. We didn't allow his name to fade with these debates, and because we grew up with him as an idolistic figure. Those no longer exist. This era of society doesn't allow icons or for people to "transcend" their sports or any other branch of entertainment. That was a simpler time, for simpler people. The world is a completely different place since the 90s. We have too much access to everyone. And i do agree that his inaccessibility kept his image from being tarnished and dissected like modern athletes are. Im sure it was a strategic move and fair play to him, but that doesn't mean hes somehow exempt from the same scrutiny as the guys we compare him to. And I'll reiterate it again, i was a teenager when spacejam dropped as well, nobody gave a damn about it once the novelty of a new movie wore off. The most enduring aspect of the movie was R.Kelly's timeless somg from the soundtrack. Im pretty sure you think Jordan was in the studio writing the song for Kelly though.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe ... just maybe, Jordan is a special one off? Some people don't want to hear it but the dude retired from the Bulls almost 30 years ago and is still the gold standard everyone is compared to.

Sometimes someone comes along and just changes things so much that they transcend whatever they were famous for.

It's the people who insist there has to be a next Jordan, first it was a handful of players, then it was really a huge thing with Kobe, then LeBron, then whoever else will next.

There isn't another Muhmmad Ali really. There isn't another baseball player that's been hugely famous decades after retirement like Babe Ruth. There isn't another band that's as popular as The Beatles.

Sometimes things just happen in a special way at a certain time and it can't be replicated the same way and you just have to tip you hat and accept that and move on.

LeBron will be more Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, etc. players who were incredibly popular and the face of the league for some time, but once they retire, 2-3 years on, there's not a whole lot of talk because younger people tend to gravitate towards the new players. Kobe had about as loud of a fanbase as possible and even for him, like once he was out of the game for a few years the chatter/talk about him collapsed (until of course his very tragic untimely passing, RIP).

[QUOTE=Soundwave;15022985]Or maybe ... just maybe, Jordan is a special one off? Some people don't want to hear it but the dude retired from the Bulls almost 30 years ago and is still the gold standard everyone is compared to.

Sometimes someone comes along and just changes things so much that they transcend whatever they were famous for.

It's the people who insist there has to be a next Jordan, first it was a handful of players, then it was really a huge thing with Kobe, then LeBron, then whoever else will next.

There isn't another Muhmmad Ali really. There isn't another baseball player that's been hugely famous decades after retirement like Babe Ruth. There isn't another band that's as popular as The Beatles.

Sometimes things just happen in a special way at a certain time and it can't be replicated the same way and you just have to tip you hat and accept that and move on.

LeBron will be more Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, etc. players who were incredibly popular and the face of the league for some time, but once they retire, 2-3 years on, there's not a whole lot of talk because younger people tend to gravitate towards the new players. Kobe had about as loud of a fanbase as possible and even for him, like once he was out of the game for a few years the chatter/talk about him collapsed (until of course his very tragic untimely passing, RIP).[/QUOTE]
But thats the thing, hes not a one off, hes the basketball icon from an era of icons. That era is over, we dont worship celebrities like that anymore. If you were critical of Jordan in the media in his era, you'd probably be out of a job. Meanwhile in Lebrons era plenty of media people have made a career out of being his detractors. There literally as much fandom in hate camps for athletes as there is actual fans these days. The time of idols is dead man. LeBron isnt the next Mj, once he got past that i liked him more as a player. Mj should thank him for giving his legacy a sparring partner that has lasted this long. Being active in this goat convo with LeBron has definitely extended his time in the minds and hearts of sports fans. I'll always talk about Jordan hes the inspiration I grew up with, these kids in this next generation won't, they dont have the connection we did, they'll have it for LeBron.

It's because Scuzzy passed away.

[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;15023085]It's because Scuzzy passed away.[/QUOTE]
:(

[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;15023085]It's because Scuzzy passed away.[/QUOTE]

What about Wheels? Is that guy still around?