09' Mo outproduced 16' Klay

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025280]This.

What’s crazy is lebron stans will talk about Klay defense and not acknowledge he was a black hole who couldn’t dribble yet they don’t acknowledge mo had handle and a true rounded offensive game plus had dope shooting. They just auto throw him under the bus for his defense. It’s no way objective at all and it makes them a joke. Mo was legit one of the best guards on the Eastern Conference.[/QUOTE]

Notice you specified Mo was one of the best guards [B]in the eastern conference[/B], meanwhile Klay was one of the best guards [B]in the league[/B] (all star/all nba) nobody's underrating Mo, he was a elite shooter that could get hot and give you 40 once in a blue moon, Klay was an elite shooter who could get hot and give you 40 more often and give you 60 once in a blue moon. Klay was given the best perimeter player to defend and Mo was a target on defense. Klay had some great playoff games. Did Mo? And Klay actually spent some of his best years as a 3rd option due to the whole Kd run. Its a low-key disrespectful comparison imo. Il tell you what if LeBron had Klay for his 1st cavs run id bet the house on his 1st chip coming way sooner. We were hoping he could get a guy like granger ffs. And **** Klay. :D

Ya being elite in the west isn’t the same as being elite in the historically weak east, there nullifying lebron’s perennial ecf champion achievement

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025298]Ya being elite in the west isn’t the same as being elite in the historically weak east, there nullifying lebron’s perennial ecf champion achievement[/QUOTE]

No slick talk here the difference is being one of the best in only the east vs.being one of the best in the whole league. Don't play stupid.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025306]No slick talk here the difference is being one of the best in only the east vs.being one of the best in the whole league. Don't play stupid.[/QUOTE]
ya which discredits bron’s finals appearances because the east was so wack

you played yourself homie

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025307]ya which discredits bron’s finals appearances because the east was so wack

you played yourself homie[/QUOTE]

Boi you ain't too bright that doesn't have shit to do with the Lebron bs youre trying to shoe horn in there. Mo is only one of the best guards in the east because that was [B][I]his[/I][/B] level in the league as a whole. Klay was all nba for the same reason. You can only play stupid so many times until youre not playing anymore.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025311]Boi you ain't too bright that doesn't have shit to do with the Lebron bs youre trying to shoe horn in there. Mo is only one of the best guards in the east because that was [B][I]his[/I][/B] level in the league as a whole. Klay was all nba for the same reason. You can only play stupid so many times until youre not playing anymore.[/QUOTE]

You tried to shade mo for being one of the best in the east because the east sucked, and your boy bron caught a stray.

MARLEY THUG

[IMG]https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/461487685_10221855277286114_2228789687530415541_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a5f93a&_nc_ohc=sDPC7Z9CcZ8Q7kNvwGdaQQf&_nc_oc=AdnjhiYmf1FyrNJyM8XeRYTOBebPYejSSVs0cS63GJUV_lTXwHBk6vF3C_x8at3PW0soinMhy4No1eFG3Atzvf_w&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&_nc_gid=Ydzo4g6dsSYzW1vPlcsitQ&oh=00_AfR732l1igBfQazVewSgZduZ2VIOPbADPQ_Rk2GmxqcCVw&oe=688E32B2[/IMG]

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025323]You tried to shade mo for being one of the best in the east because the east sucked, and your boy bron caught a stray.[/QUOTE]

Your words not mine. I never said he was only one of the best guards because the east was weak. Again my exact words were that was his level relative to the league, Klays level was clearly higher. I was actually happy when the cavs picked up Mo and my expectations tempered after seeing him throughout the season and what limitations he had. But yeah keep trying to force them square peg in the round hole idiot. Theres a reason most of the forum handle you how they do.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025372]Your words not mine. I never said he was only one of the best guards because the east was weak. Again my exact words were that was his level relative to the league, Klays level was clearly higher. I was actually happy when the cavs picked up Mo and my expectations tempered after seeing him throughout the season and what limitations he had. But yeah keep trying to force them square peg in the round hole idiot. Theres a reason most of the forum handle you how they do.[/QUOTE]

Where is the Klay Thompson defensive data?

:lol

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025389]Where is the Klay Thompson defensive data?

:lol[/QUOTE]

Where's the Mo Williams after 2010 data?

bron stans - “klay was an elite defender”

sources: trust me bro

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15025399]Where's the Mo Williams after 2010 data?[/QUOTE]

LeBron made him. 43% 3 point shooter playing with LeBron. 36% career 3 point shooter without LeBron.

LeBron by himself was able to add an extra 2% on Mo's career 3pt%.

The LeBron effect.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025389]Where is the Klay Thompson defensive data?

:lol[/QUOTE]

If you're a warriors fan do you really need numbers on a guy thats made all defense and been just outside of making the team several other times? You need data on the guy that routinely had to guard Curry's matchup cause Steph couldn't hold a purse? Do you really need numbers to prove a guy like Klay is better defensively than a guy like Mo who teams targeted similarly to how teams did Steph? Something wrong with you.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15025403]LeBron made him. 43% 3 point shooter playing with LeBron. 36% career 3 point shooter without LeBron.

LeBron by himself was able to add an extra 2% on Mo's career 3pt%.

The LeBron effect.[/QUOTE]

And that's why Bird said he'd never trade for LeBron's teammates during his first stint in Cleveland.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025417]If you're a warriors fan do you really need numbers on a guy thats made all defense and been just outside of making the team several other times? You need data on the guy that routinely had to guard Curry's matchup cause Steph couldn't hold a purse? Do you really need numbers to prove a guy like Klay is better defensively than a guy like Mo who teams targeted similarly to how teams did Steph? Something wrong with you.[/QUOTE]

Lebron stans have already said defensive teams don’t matter during your discredit kobe campaign

Show me the metrics of klay being an elite defender

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025427]Lebron stans have already said defensive teams don’t matter during your discredit kobe campaign

Show me the metrics of klay being an elite defender[/QUOTE]

Ive never said that. However I agree that Kobe probably got some reputation awards past his actual time of earning them. All the metrics you need as a "warriors fan" is who was klay always guarding? They were literally hiding Steph on defense using Klay.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025437]Ive never said that. However I agree that Kobe probably got some reputation awards past his actual time of earning them. All the metrics you need as a "warriors fan" is who was klay always guarding? They were literally hiding Steph on defense using Klay.[/QUOTE]

Someone rivaling Lebron gets all defensive teams: “actually all defense doesn’t mean anything”

Someone who is a teammate of Lebron’s rival: “hey he made an all defense team….”

:roll:

Still waiting on those metrics

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025437]Ive never said that. However I agree that Kobe probably got some reputation awards past his actual time of earning them. All the metrics you need as a "warriors fan" is who was klay always guarding? They were literally hiding Steph on defense using Klay.[/QUOTE]


MJ and Curry could carry the "star" category of scoring, so they required less stars and allowed GM's to get good defensive help and role players.. Essentially, their ability to carry the scoring load against top teams allows elite roster construction.. Otoh, Lebron's inability to successfully carry the scoring load against top teams requires more star help, thereby preventing elite roster construction, while his skillset of turning teammates into spot-up shooter further hampers roster construction.. Ultimately, his inability to carry the scoring load with sufficient brand of ball caused the massive upset loss to the 09' Magic.. (too ball-dominant at high scoring levels).

The consensus was that the 15' Warriors weren't a good roster, such as +2800 preseason odds and a lower producer than Mo or Hornacek at 2nd option.. So the 67 and 73 wins means that Curry did a goat thing, not Lebron.. Lebron doesn't deserve props for beating a 1-man team with the only "big 3" super-team in the league and the preseason favorite.. Ultimately, Curry has always needed less talent because his skillset produces better chemistry and ball movement

[QUOTE=3ba11;15025441]The consensus was that the 15' Warriors weren't a good roster, such as +2800 preseason odds and a lower producer than Mo or Hornacek at 2nd option.. So the 67 and 73 wins means that Curry did a goat thing, not Lebron.. Lebron doesn't deserve props for beating a 1-man team with the only "big 3" super-team in the league and the preseason favorite.. Ultimately, Curry has always needed less talent because his skillset produces better chemistry and ball movement[/QUOTE]
Curry needed to recruit a top 3 player to his 73 win team to win half his titles, in addition to a comical number of injuries for his first one.

I give him props for winning 67 games in 2015, but those first 3 titles are honestly not impressive, and the KD ones mean nothing. Someone like Mark Price is likely racking up titles on those KD Warrior teams.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15025444]Curry needed to recruit a top 3 player to his 73 win team to win half his titles, in addition to a comical number of injuries for his first one.

I give him props for winning 67 games in 2015, but those first 3 titles are honestly not impressive, and the KD ones mean nothing. Someone like Mark Price is likely racking up titles on those KD Warrior teams.[/QUOTE]

2011: negative ring
2012: lockout season vs 22 and 23 year old chokers, asterisk ring
2013: bron brick, bosh rebound, ray allen bang, asterisk ring
2016: adam silver collusion, asterisk ring
2020: Bubble plus anthony davis, asterisk ring


Bron sitting at -1 chips

We're STILL doing this?!

:facepalm

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025446]2011: negative ring
2012: lockout season vs 22 and 23 year old chokers, asterisk ring
2013: bron brick, bosh rebound, ray allen bang, asterisk ring
2016: adam silver collusion, asterisk ring
2020: Bubble plus anthony davis, asterisk ring


Bron sitting at -1 chips[/QUOTE]


I honestly can't think of a single ring that I respect because he beat babies, then bailout, plus the 2nd option ring in 2020... And it's impossible to lose when your 2nd option is outplaying the league MVP, like Mathurin outplaying SGA or something - the Warriors were a +2800 roster and the 2nd option produced less than Mo or Hornacek, so Curry carried this low-producing cast to a shocking 67 wins, and then 73... It simply isn't impressive to beat a 1-man team with the only big 3 super-team and preseason fav

Imagine if LeBron teamed up with peak KD. You already have Bron haters acting like LeBron won titles with prime Wade, which wasn’t the case. KD would be a GOAT candidate in their minds.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15025448]I honestly can't think of a single ring that I respect because he beat babies, then bailout, plus the 2nd option ring in 2020... And it's impossible to lose when your 2nd option is outplaying the league MVP, like Mathurin outplaying SGA or something - the Warriors were a +2800 roster and the 2nd option produced less than Mo or Hornacek, so Curry carried this low-producing cast to a shocking 67 wins, and then 73... It simply isn't impressive to beat a 1-man team with the only big 3 super-team and preseason fav[/QUOTE]

Bron stans hate this. But it’s the hard truth.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15025448]I honestly can't think of a single ring that I respect because he beat babies, then bailout, plus the 2nd option ring in 2020... And it's impossible to lose when your 2nd option is outplaying the league MVP, like Mathurin outplaying SGA or something - the Warriors were a +2800 roster and the 2nd option produced less than Mo or Hornacek, so Curry carried this low-producing cast to a shocking 67 wins, and then 73... It simply isn't impressive to beat a 1-man team with the only big 3 super-team and preseason fav[/QUOTE]

Its crazy how much we talk about Kyrie performing great next to Lebron......but never question why he hasn't touched that level since.......

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025484]Its crazy how much we talk about Kyrie performing great next to Lebron......but never question why he hasn't touched that level since.......[/QUOTE]

Bro if you think bron was the reason for Kyrie doing anything you obviously didn’t watch the games or have a literal retard level iq. Bron and Kyrie did the my turn your turn style of ball. Bron wasnt gifting Kyrie tons of easy buckets. Kyrie has probably the goat handles and is elite and spectacular at finishing at the rim. Get out of here with this low iq nonsense. It’s embarrassing.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025485]Bro if you think bron was the reason for Kyrie doing anything you obviously didn’t watch the games or have a literal retard level iq. Bron and Kyrie did the my turn your turn style of ball. Bron wasnt gifting Kyrie tons of easy buckets. Kyrie has probably the goat handles and is elite and spectacular at finishing at the rim. Get out of here with this low iq nonsense. It’s embarrassing.[/QUOTE]
Kyrie hasn't come close to matching that performance in the playoffs since leaving Cleveland.

Since 2018 he goes from

26/5/6 on 60%TS in the regular season to
22/4/5 on 55% in the playoffs

That's a Harden/Embiid level drop. And a lot of that damage was done in first round series. Look how he's done against the truly elite teams of the league

2019 Bucks: 20/4/6 on 45%TS
2022 Celtics: 21/5/5 on 59%TS
2024 Thunder: 16/2/6 on 53%TS
2024 Celtics: 20/3/5 on 48%TS

He had one big series against the Wolves in 2024, outside of that, it's an inarguable pattern of having a huge drop off in performance in the playoffs without LeBron, esp against the elite teams of the league where he's frankly dogshit.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15025489]Kyrie hasn't come close to matching that performance in the playoffs since leaving Cleveland.

Since 2018 he goes from

26/5/6 on 60%TS in the regular season to
22/4/5 on 55% in the playoffs

That's a Harden/Embiid level drop. And a lot of that damage was done in first round series. Look how he's done against the truly elite teams of the league

2019 Bucks: 20/4/6 on 45%TS
2022 Celtics: 21/5/5 on 59%TS
2024 Thunder: 16/2/6 on 53%TS
2024 Celtics: 20/3/5 on 48%TS

He had one big series against the Wolves in 2024, outside of that, it's an inarguable pattern of having a huge drop off in performance in the playoffs without LeBron, esp against the elite teams of the league where he's frankly dogshit.[/QUOTE]

Did you watch those games?

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15025489]Kyrie hasn't come close to matching that performance in the playoffs since leaving Cleveland.

Since 2018 he goes from

26/5/6 on 60%TS in the regular season to
22/4/5 on 55% in the playoffs

That's a Harden/Embiid level drop. And a lot of that damage was done in first round series. Look how he's done against the truly elite teams of the league

2019 Bucks: 20/4/6 on 45%TS
2022 Celtics: 21/5/5 on 59%TS
2024 Thunder: 16/2/6 on 53%TS
2024 Celtics: 20/3/5 on 48%TS

He had one big series against the Wolves in 2024, outside of that, it's an inarguable pattern of having a huge drop off in performance in the playoffs without LeBron, esp against the elite teams of the league where he's frankly dogshit.[/QUOTE]
Ether.

LeBron makes teammates better, they get worse on other teams.

Pippen, Grant, & Armstrong had career years immediately after MJ retired.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025485][B]Bro if you think bron was the reason for Kyrie doing anything you obviously didn’t watch the games or have a literal retard level iq[/B]. Bron and Kyrie did the my turn your turn style of ball. Bron wasnt gifting Kyrie tons of easy buckets. Kyrie has probably the goat handles and is elite and spectacular at finishing at the rim. Get out of here with this low iq nonsense. It’s embarrassing.[/QUOTE]

Ugh fine...

Yes, he certainly helped Kyrie in those years. Think about the best thing that Kyrie did sa a young player(1 on 1 ball) and then all of the other gaps in his game at the time. Playing with Bron who could completely fill in all of those gaps from a defense, leadership, playmaking/pace-control standpoint allowed Kyrie to literally not have to worry about anything else other than what he did best. That is playing almost completely 1 on 1; not too many doubles sent his way when Bron was on the court...

Granted, he's gotten savvier overall and better as a floor general but in 2016 he was absolutely one of those guys that wasn't a positive in any game where his shot was off. Another granted...it often was on, particularly in that series. But he wasn't really all that well-rounded at the time and got better as a player overall in his time playing with Bron.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;15025503]Ugh fine...

Yes, he certainly helped Kyrie in those years. Think about the best thing that Kyrie did sa a young player(1 on 1 ball) and then all of the other gaps in his game at the time. Playing with Bron who could completely fill in all of those gaps from a defense, leadership, playmaking/pace-control standpoint allowed Kyrie to literally not have to worry about anything else other than what he did best. That is playing almost completely 1 on 1; not too many doubles sent his way when Bron was on the court...

Granted, he's gotten savvier overall and better as a floor general but in 2016 he was absolutely one of those guys that wasn't a positive in any game where his shot was off. Another granted...it often was on, particularly in that series. But he wasn't really all that well-rounded at the time and got better as a player overall in his time playing with Bron.[/QUOTE]

Lot of words not a lot of substance.

They did my turn/your turn basketball.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025504]Lot of words not a lot of substance.

They did my turn/your turn basketball.[/QUOTE]

Very few words.

Little insight.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025485]Bro if you think bron was the reason for Kyrie doing anything you obviously didn’t watch the games or have a literal retard level iq. Bron and Kyrie did the my turn your turn style of ball. Bron wasnt gifting Kyrie tons of easy buckets. Kyrie has probably the goat handles and is elite and spectacular at finishing at the rim. Get out of here with this low iq nonsense. It’s embarrassing.[/QUOTE]

I shouldn't even pile on you've taken quite the spanking since this quote but alright. Why did his best postseason runs happen alongside Lebron? Both from a scoring and advanced metrics standpoint. Im sure hes gotten better as a player yet he cant do what he did alongside James? Also you jumped the gun saying Lebron got him easy buckets, he allowed Kyrie to do Kyrie without facing the full teeth of the defense. You guys can't make your minds up 1st Lebron ball turns everyone to spot up shooters but now it allows Kyrie to get his own buckets at the same volume he was able to as a no.1 in Boston. You suck at this.

[QUOTE=warriorfan;15025485]Bro if you think bron was the reason for Kyrie doing anything you obviously didn’t watch the games or have a literal retard level iq. Bron and Kyrie did the my turn your turn style of ball. Bron wasnt gifting Kyrie tons of easy buckets. Kyrie has probably the goat handles and is elite and spectacular at finishing at the rim. Get out of here with this low iq nonsense. It’s embarrassing.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't Kyrie the 2nd option on a team that won the entire western conference with Luka? While Lebron couldn't even get out of the 1st round with Doncic? Thats interesting.

[QUOTE=tpols;15025549]Wasn't Kyrie the 2nd option on a team that won the entire western conference with Luka? While Lebron couldn't even get out of the 1st round with Doncic? Thats interesting.[/QUOTE]

Meanwhile that run with Luka was inferior to the 2016 run with Lebron. He didn't "outplay the Celtics 1st option" like he so famously here did against the warriors. Bostons 1st option only averaged 22 just like Curry in 2016, so why couldn't Kyrie "outplay" him the same if it had nothing to do with Lebron? Literally higher almost all the way across the board alongside Lebron. "Bron ball" somehow weaponized Kyrie to an extent no one had been able to since. Unless you want to tell me Curry sucked is the reason Kyrie was able to be that guy. Something isnt being said here apparently.

Kyrie iced the same team that embarrassed Luka and Lebron last year in the 1st round to win the Western Conference. Youre acting like he couldnt play without LeBron or never did anything else again which means you might have amnesia because you forgot about something that happened only a little over a year ago.

[QUOTE=tpols;15025561]Kyrie iced the same team that embarrassed Luka and Lebron last year in the 1st round to win the Western Conference. Youre acting like he couldnt play without LeBron or never did anything else again which means you might have amnesia because you forgot about something that happened only a little over a year ago.[/QUOTE]

Nah im acting Iike he was at his best next to Lebron, won a chip, and hasn't since. Good reason why you didn't directly answer my post. Again why didn't he "outperform " the Celtics 1st option in just the next round?

[QUOTE=tpols;15025561]Kyrie iced the same team that embarrassed Luka and Lebron last year in the 1st round to win the Western Conference. Youre acting like he couldnt play without LeBron or never did anything else again which means you might have amnesia because you forgot about something that happened only a little over a year ago.[/QUOTE]

Nah im acting Iike he was at his best next to Lebron, won a chip, and hasn't since. Good reason why you didn't directly answer my post. Again why didn't he "outperform " the Celtics 1st option in just the next round?

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;15025566]

Nah im acting Iike he was at his best next to Lebron, won a chip, and hasn't since.


[/QUOTE]


Kyrie only played 2 years with Luka and 2 years with KD, so he hasn't gotten to team-hop around like Lebron and get 15 years with Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, AD and Luka.

So cut the crap - LeCoddle - Lebron has been coddled with the best help that anyone ever had - no one played with more #1 draft picks or franchise players that had their own team

And speaking of guys making other guys better - why don't you compare the RS and PO numbers of Lebron for 08' and 09', aka mo's spacing EXPLODED lebron's game.