The biggest LeBron hater on YouTube just put Kobe #2 on his top 10 list

[QUOTE=tpols;15038787]Youre just as clueless as all those you criticize.

Kobe was a GOAT level basketball player period. Whether thats top 5 top 10 top 15 whatever is splitting hairs at the top with how many variables that are at play. Youre simply too arrogant and ignorant to realize that though.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly the kind of deranged stuff I was talking about. I didnt even say where I rank Kobe and you're already frothing at the mouth. It isn't "splitting hairs" to say someone's top 15 as opposed to top 5. It's no exact science either. If someone has Magic 4th or 7th, I'm not mad. I can see the argument either way. But when someone puts Hakeem top 5 or LeBron outside the top 10, that's when someone loses all credibility. All I said was Kobe isnt #2. Not even close. There's no argument for him being top 5. But that's not disrespect. That's the problem, you put a guy 7th and someone's offended that you dared to say only 6 guys ever are better than him. Which is crazy.

[QUOTE]
It's no exact science either.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Thats why its funny to see you type with such conviction especially as a relative nobody here like we all are.

1. LeBron
2. MJ
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Hakeem/Curry

I think that is the current top 10. Curry & Hakeem are a coin flip at this moment. Maybe Hakeem is ahead because he had better peak play and at the moment Curry probably only has a slight edge in longevity. Jokic is coming though, already has the peak play of a top 10 player ever, just needs to longevity.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15038782]Public polls mean absolutely jack shit. Jordan was voted the best college player of all-time and even as an ardent Jordan stan, that was ludicrous. You definitely can't even trust ex players these days so I dont want to hear about "guys who played against him said xxx". They've all got scores to settle or undue biases. Zeke calling Kareem the GOAT, Paul Pierce not having LeBron top 10, KG the same. Shaq having Kobe #2. The analysts also are full of it. Skip Bayless having LeBron 9th or Nick Wright putting Jordan 3rd.

Basically, you can't trust anyone or anything. People don't even believe what they say. But what is fact is that if you have Kobe #2 you're either a deranged stan, some casual who knows nothing about ball, trolling period, or influenced by some other bias. No exceptions.[/QUOTE]

Jordan is almost unanimously considered #1 and mostly everyone agrees that Kobe is the closest thing we've seen in terms of both skill and psychology. Makes perfect sense why some would put him just behind Jordan.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038791]1. LeBron
2. MJ
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Magic
9. Bird
10. Hakeem/Curry

I think that is the current top 10. Curry & Hakeem are a coin flip at this moment. Maybe Hakeem is ahead because he had better peak play and at the moment Curry probably only has a slight edge in longevity. Jokic is coming though, already has the peak play of a top 10 player ever, just needs to longevity.[/QUOTE]

This is an even lower IQ take than your take on the 2020 Heat being better than the '25 Pacers. :lol

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038429]No player was better than LeBron from 2009-2018.

2019 goes to Kawhi. LeBron got injured that year. 2020 goes to LeBron.

Curry was better than LeBron in 2021, but LeBron wasn't at his best anymore. He was 36 years old by then.

Hakeem was in his late 20's when Ewing had surpassed him as a player for a bit.[/QUOTE]

Curry was the better player from 2015 to the end of LeBron's prime.

In that period there was a stretch Curry was the MVP, a champion, then a unanimous MVP. LeBron was not better during that time. After that there was the 2016 finals when Curry wasn't at his best and then the Durant years where all sorts of stories were concocted to obscure Curry's continued greatness.

We can even benchmark LeBron's performance against a fairly similar common opponent to arrive at the same conclusion. 2018 LeBron is considered by some of his supporters to be as great as he had ever been. Those fans wax lyrical of his 2018 playoffs campaign which culminated with him taking down the 2018 Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals in 7 games before getting throttled by the Warriors in the Finals. Okay great. So what do we make of Curry taking down a more mature version of those Celtics in 6 games in the 2022 Finals? By 2022 Curry was about the same age LeBron was in 2018 and yet he ripped up a likely better version of those Celtics in the Finals in less games.

There isn't much evidence for LeBron's superiority. It's pretty much just loud opinion.

Says Curry was better than LeBron from 2015-2020, yet Curry didn't even win FMVP over KD in back to back years.:oldlol:

Hell, LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry in 2015 despite losing.

I think everyone had Curry over LeBron during the 2016 season until the Finals happened. LeBron had a historic series while Curry layed an egg. 2017 & 2018 are easily LeBron. Especially in 2018 when LeBron had one of the best individual playoffs runs ever, we had not seen a player dominate the playoffs like that since peak Shaq.

Fact is LeBron outplayed Curry in every series they matched up against each other from 2015-2018

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038816]Says Curry was better than LeBron from 2015-2020, yet Curry didn't even win FMVP over KD in back to back years.:oldlol:

Hell, LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry in 2015 despite losing.

[B]I think everyone had Curry over LeBron during the 2016 season until the Finals happened. LeBron had a historic series while Curry layed an egg.[/B] 2017 & 2018 are easily LeBron. Especially in 2018 when LeBron had one of the best individual playoffs runs ever, we had not seen a player dominate the playoffs like that since peak Shaq.

Fact is LeBron outplayed Curry in every series they matched up against each other from 2015-2018[/QUOTE]

Well, if that's how we're determining it, then I guess we have to say Dirk was better than Lebron in 2011.

And how do you come off saying that Lebron was the best in 2020 when he wasn't even the best player on his team?

Can't wait to hear this one. :lol

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038820]Well, if that's how we're determining it, then I guess we have to say Dirk was better than Lebron in 2011.

And how do you come off saying that Lebron was the best in 2020 when he wasn't even the best player on his team?

Can't wait to hear this one. :lol[/QUOTE]

2011 is the only year I would consider giving it to Dirk over LeBron.

The only push back would be that Dirk during the regular season arguably wasn't even top 5 level, he had better regular seasons years prior, '05-'07 was really his peak. But he did have a historic playoff run which gives him an argument.

The other years from 2009-2018 & 2020? Easily LeBron and it's not close.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038824]2011 is the only year I would consider giving it to Dirk over LeBron.

The only push back would be that Dirk during the regular season arguably wasn't even top 5 level, he had better regular seasons years prior, '05-'07 was really his peak. But he did have a historic playoff run which gives him an argument.

The other years from 2009-2018 & 2020? Easily LeBron and it's not close.[/QUOTE]

An argument can be made for 2009-2018, even though I disagree with it. You're out of your mind though if you actually think he was the best in 2020. AD carried him that year.

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038858]An argument can be made for 2009-2018, even though I disagree with it. You're out of your mind though if you actually think he was the best in 2020. AD carried him that year.[/QUOTE]

Is that why LeBron finished ahead of AD in MVP voting that year and won FMVP over him as well?

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038864]Is that why LeBron finished ahead of AD in MVP voting that year and won FMVP over him as well?[/QUOTE]

The MVP voting was nostalgia. Just like the Olympic MVP thing. Getting some votes doesn't mean it's actually deserved.


But back to 2011, since we're going by the finals and all, not only was Dirk better in 2011, but so was Wade, and so was Jason Terry.

Can't deny it. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038877]The MVP voting was nostalgia. Just like the Olympic MVP thing. Getting some votes doesn't mean it's actually deserved.


But back to 2011, since we're going by the finals and all, not only was Dirk better in 2011, but so was Wade, and so was Jason Terry.

Can't deny it. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

You always change subjects when I prove your points wrong. :oldlol:

Even Skip Bayless thought LeBron should have won MVP in 2020.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038880]You always change subjects when I prove your points wrong. :oldlol:

Even Skip Bayless thought LeBron should have won MVP in 2020.[/QUOTE]

You haven't proven anything. Bringing up a fellow Bronie fluffer's opinion is not "proof". Anyone who understands basketball knows AD carried the Lakers in 2020. Did you know that without AD, Bronie couldn't even make the playoffs? Truth.

And no matter how much you try to ignore it, my point about Jason Terry remains. No other all time great has ever had even close to as epic of a choke job as Lebron's in 2011. Which is why you ranking him #1 merely shows your bias.

If it helps you sleep at night.

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15038782]Public polls mean absolutely jack shit. Jordan was voted the best college player of all-time and even as an ardent Jordan stan, that was ludicrous. You definitely can't even trust ex players these days so I dont want to hear about "guys who played against him said xxx". They've all got scores to settle or undue biases. Zeke calling Kareem the GOAT, Paul Pierce not having LeBron top 10, KG the same. Shaq having Kobe #2. The analysts also are full of it. Skip Bayless having LeBron 9th or Nick Wright putting Jordan 3rd.

Basically, you can't trust anyone or anything. People don't even believe what they say. But what is fact is that if you have Kobe #2 you're either a deranged stan, some casual who knows nothing about ball, trolling period, or influenced by some other bias. No exceptions.[/QUOTE]

This is the issue right here. You point out that people have a bias, we all do. You don't need to get that upset about it. He won about as much as anyone else and was arguably the most entertaining player to watch ever, so by default a lot of people will have him very high on their list. There is no objective all-time list. EVERYONE has a bias. The people that post on basketball forums might know more/have consumed more NBA and thus have more data to go off, but they will be biased one way or another. For people in my generation Kobe is easily top 5 when you factor in the entertainment aspect of his game if we look at the general public.

Skip Bayless and Nick Wright's job is to bait engagement. They say things they know will get the people riled up. Skip was onto this and did it before "ragebaiting" spread across the internet and the sports' world in general. It's ok for people to have Kobe as their #2 or even their #1 if that's how they feel about it.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038884]If it helps you sleep at night.[/QUOTE]

Great counterargument. :roll: That's what we call tapping out.

:lebronamazed:

[QUOTE=Nowoco;15038789]This is exactly the kind of deranged stuff I was talking about. I didnt even say where I rank Kobe and you're already frothing at the mouth. It isn't "splitting hairs" to say someone's top 15 as opposed to top 5. It's no exact science either. If someone has Magic 4th or 7th, I'm not mad. I can see the argument either way. But when someone puts Hakeem top 5 or LeBron outside the top 10, that's when someone loses all credibility. All I said was Kobe isnt #2. Not even close. There's no argument for him being top 5. But that's not disrespect. That's the problem, you put a guy 7th and someone's offended that you dared to say only 6 guys ever are better than him. Which is crazy.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't put Kobe 2nd all time, but I get why some might. Basketball is circumstantial. He ran the gauntlet for almost a full decade in the toughest conference arguably in league history with half of it coming in the height of the defensive era. In addition, he did it with good efficiency relative to his peers, against the best competition given his position (Wade, AI, Allen, TMac, Pierce, Vince, Rip, etc).

The game is a series of what ifs and context that almost always gets left out of the conversation but is always important to note.

Shaq is always placed higher than Hakeem but prime/peak Shaq got to play with peak Penny, Kobe, and Wade. That's context. Give Hakeem a triangle system with shooters like BJ, Paxson, Kerr, or Hodges, with a point forward in Pippen. He wins 6 rings too in that situation.

Gasol was gifted the triangle system alongside a top 10 player of all-time. If Gasol isn't traded to LA, we probably wouldn't remember him. That's context.

If Kareem doesn't play alongside two top 12-13 guards of all-time, where does he rank? Does he win a single title? KD has 2 titles, but on the strength of a superteam. How does his legacy look without that move, similarly LeBron to Miami? And how do other superstar players look if they did the same? Context almost always has to be factored in.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038816]Says Curry was better than LeBron from 2015-2020, yet Curry didn't even win FMVP over KD in back to back years.:oldlol:

Hell, LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry in 2015 despite losing.

I think everyone had Curry over LeBron during the 2016 season until the Finals happened. LeBron had a historic series while Curry layed an egg. 2017 & 2018 are easily LeBron. Especially in 2018 when LeBron had one of the best individual playoffs runs ever, we had not seen a player dominate the playoffs like that since peak Shaq.

Fact is LeBron outplayed Curry in every series they matched up against each other from 2015-2018[/QUOTE]

Eh....this completely overlooks the defensive attention that Steph got during the 2017 and 2018 finals. It was one of the reasons KD was able to feast as much as he did.

This is why context matters.

[QUOTE=Full Court;15038920]Great counterargument. :roll: That's what we call tapping out.

:lebronamazed:[/QUOTE]

You never back up anything you say, "I'm right because I say so", that is basically you. I gave you reasons/facts for my arguments, you on the hand never do. It's the same old story.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;15038928]Eh....this completely overlooks the defensive attention that Steph got during the 2017 and 2018 finals. It was one of the reasons KD was able to feast as much as he did.

This is why context matters.[/QUOTE]

Even with the constant double teams and KD hanging a rack on Lebron, Curry still played great. How is 27/9/8 on elite efficiency bad? While simultaneously making everyone better with his style and spacing?

OP be capping real hard.

[QUOTE=tpols;15038959]Even with the constant double teams and KD hanging a rack on Lebron, Curry still played great. How is 27/9/8 on elite efficiency bad? While simultaneously making everyone better with his style and spacing?

OP be capping real hard.[/QUOTE]

The funny thing is, I remember KD kept feeding Curry in game 3 or 4 of the Finals in 2018 so he could take FMVP, but Curry kept bricking all his shots.

LeBron averaged 34|12|10 on 63 TS% vs the Warriors in 2017 then averaged 34|9|10 on 62 TS% vs the Warriors in 2018 on a bone contusion. LeBron was simply ahead of everyone during those years

Yea and he went 1-8 with the biggest blowout in NBA Finals history by point differential, a record that might never be broken. 2014 NBA Finals is 2nd place as well. A pattern here.

That ain't a flex. Thats an ass whooping. :lol

Nick Young says Curry was almost crying in 2018 when he lost FMVP to Durant.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-KM1kLmss1s[/url]

:lol

That game 3 pretty much sealed the FMVP. Durant had 43 while Curry went 3/16 shooting.

[QUOTE=tpols;15038964]Yea and he went 1-8 with the biggest blowout in NBA Finals history by point differential, a record that might never be broken. 2014 NBA Finals is 2nd place as well. A pattern here.

That ain't a flex. Thats an ass whooping. :lol[/QUOTE]

Well yea, it was basically the greatest team of all time going up against LeBron and scrubs.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038945]You never back up anything you say, "I'm right because I say so", that is basically you. I gave you reasons/facts for my arguments, you on the hand never do. It's the same old story.[/QUOTE]

You've given no facts whatsoever. Just made yourself look dumb. AGAIN. :lol

You're all about your precious stats, so how come you don't bring up any when it comes to Lebron and AD in 2020? Oh, right. Because AD outscored Lebron in the regular season and outscored him in the playoffs too. All while being the defensive anchor of the team.

LeCarried.

And as for Dudley....

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2F9PxhbMjfDFcAAAAC%2Fchris-benoit-wwe.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=e1844ffbfed2dcaae74a91751c36b548f701c87bfc112404766dd3946c162cf7[/img]

Nice job leaving out the fact that LeBron led the league in assists that year and finished ahead of him in MVP voting. He even got FMVP over AD which is something you put more value than anything else. :lol

You know it’s bad for you when the biggest LeBron hater Skip Bayless thought LeBron should have won league MVP that season.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15039163]Nice job leaving out the fact that LeBron led the league in assists that year and finished ahead of him in MVP voting. He even got FMVP over AD which is something you put more value than anything else. :lol

You know it’s bad for you when the biggest LeBron hater Skip Bayless thought LeBron should have won league MVP that season.[/QUOTE]

AD slacked off in the finals after carrying the team for the first three rounds of the playoffs. Lebron deserved FMVP more than AD, even though Butler deserved it more than both of them. But my point went completely over your head, which is hardly surprising. So let me break it down to a first grade level for you.

You're trying to imply that only the finals matter, not the totality of the season. Well, if that's the case than Lebron wasn't even top 5 in 2011. You'd even have to rank Jason Terry ahead of him. But you won't concede that, will you? Because even a dummy like yourself knows that it's just retarded to say the best player in the league is determined solely by the finals series. Of course you have to look at the whole season. But then, Lebron wasn't even close to the best player in 2020. Kawhi, AD, and Giannis, among others, were all better.

You just can't ever get the W, can you? :lol

LeBron outplayed AD in the Houston series as well. Try again.

If AD "slacked off" in the biggest series of his career then he loses points.

Fact is LeBron finished ahead of him in MVP voting and won FMVP. Nuff said.

Oh, and realgm also named LeBron player of the year for 2020

[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FLr5mLDUq_6IzNuz7edC7PL-CXefEJyPcODz51MWnQY/edit?gid=0#gid=0[/url]
[QUOTE]Alright, so we have tentative results:

POY: LeBron James
OPOY: LeBron James
DPOY: Anthony Davis[/QUOTE]

Tough luck fulltard.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15039169]LeBron outplayed AD in the Houston series as well. Try again.

If AD "slacked off" in the biggest series of his career then he loses points.

Fact is LeBron finished ahead of him in MVP voting and won FMVP. Nuff said.

Oh, and realgm also named LeBron player of the year for 2020

[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FLr5mLDUq_6IzNuz7edC7PL-CXefEJyPcODz51MWnQY/edit?gid=0#gid=0[/url]


Tough luck fulltard.[/QUOTE]

How did Lebron outplay AD? At best they were equal in that series and that's only because AD put up a stinker in the close-out game while being the best player in 3 out of 5 games in that series, but the close-out game was a blowout where AD only took 9 shots because role players popped off and Lakers were even better with AD and with Lebron on the bench in that game. AD was the Lakers' best player through 3 series in the Playoffs and the Finals was just a formality after the injuries and Lakers stopped feeding AD so Lebron could get his FMVP.

If we're being objective Giannis was the best player in the league in 2020. MVP + DPOY and carried a mediocre roster to the best record in the league.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15039169]LeBron outplayed AD in the Houston series as well. Try again.

If AD "slacked off" in the biggest series of his career then he loses points.

Fact is LeBron finished ahead of him in MVP voting and won FMVP. Nuff said.

Oh, and realgm also named LeBron player of the year for 2020

[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FLr5mLDUq_6IzNuz7edC7PL-CXefEJyPcODz51MWnQY/edit?gid=0#gid=0[/url]


Tough luck fulltard.[/QUOTE]

Since you can't back anything you said up with data, like I did, then you resort to merely citing other peoples' opinions. :roll:

[B][SIZE=5]DESPERATION[/SIZE][/B]

Another one of these idiots who arbitrarily eliminates George Mikan from this conversation. You want a 2 way player who didn't have top 75 help and consistently won

[QUOTE=ImKobe;15039211]How did Lebron outplay AD? At best they were equal in that series and that's only because AD put up a stinker in the close-out game while being the best player in 3 out of 5 games in that series, but the close-out game was a blowout where AD only took 9 shots because role players popped off and Lakers were even better with AD and with Lebron on the bench in that game. AD was the Lakers' best player through 3 series in the Playoffs and the Finals was just a formality after the injuries and Lakers stopped feeding AD so Lebron could get his FMVP.

If we're being objective Giannis was the best player in the league in 2020. MVP + DPOY and carried a mediocre roster to the best record in the league.[/QUOTE]

You know deep down LeBron is better, because the moment the Lakers won the title that year, you disappeared from this forum for months. You were upset.

[QUOTE=Full Court;15039214]Since you can't back anything you said up with data, like I did[/QUOTE]

You haven't backed up shit. You thought Wade was better than LeBron in 2008 while not realizing Wade missed like half the season that year.

:roll:

[QUOTE=Full Court;15039159]You've given no facts whatsoever. Just made yourself look dumb. AGAIN. :lol

You're all about your precious stats, so how come you don't bring up any when it comes to Lebron and AD in 2020? Oh, right. Because AD outscored Lebron in the regular season and outscored him in the playoffs too. All while being the defensive anchor of the team.

LeCarried.

And as for Dudley....

[img]https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2F9PxhbMjfDFcAAAAC%2Fchris-benoit-wwe.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=e1844ffbfed2dcaae74a91751c36b548f701c87bfc112404766dd3946c162cf7[/img][/QUOTE]


Its funny how he has different criterias for each year. :lol One year scoring will matter but in others where Durant, AD, or Curry in the Olympics outscored him he shifts to assists as his primary argument. Always moving goal posts.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15038816]Says Curry was better than LeBron from 2015-2020, yet Curry didn't even win FMVP over KD in back to back years.:oldlol:

Hell, LeBron got more FMVP votes than Curry in 2015 despite losing.

I think everyone had Curry over LeBron during the 2016 season until the Finals happened. LeBron had a historic series while Curry layed an egg. 2017 & 2018 are easily LeBron. Especially in 2018 when LeBron had one of the best individual playoffs runs ever, we had not seen a player dominate the playoffs like that since peak Shaq.

Fact is LeBron outplayed Curry in every series they matched up against each other from 2015-2018[/QUOTE]

Why should we care about an award given out by eleven media pundits who were trained by their daily output to drool over LeBron? They were given multiple chances to give the award to Steph and each and every time they found a reason not to. Does it make them and the award they represent look good? Nope! It's like when the Minnesota Timberwolves had two opportunities to draft Steph but instead opted for Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn. At least the Timberwolves only whiffed twice. The FMVP voters whiffed three times.

2018 LeBron? See my previous comment.

You say LeBron kept outplaying Curry—but somehow kept losing. Looks like you don't understand how Curry works. Not surprising. Same people kept expecting KD to accomplish more than Curry. But they keep getting it wrong. Someone wiser would start reevaluating their mistakes and realize that if they could get Curry and KD wrong, they probably could get Curry and LeBron wrong too. But how many of those pundits who made idiots of themselves have availed themselves of the opportunity to issue a mea culpa? Instead they double down on stupidity—like we're seeing here.

He lost because Curry had peak KD on his side. In 2015 LeBron was without Kyrie and Love.

The only time they were on equal grounds team wise was 2016 and LeBron spanked that ass. And I haven’t even included 2021 in the play in game when LeBron hit a game winner over Curry or 2023 when an injured LeBron beat Curry in the playoffs.

LeBron owns his soul.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15039294]He lost because Curry had peak KD on his side. In 2015 LeBron was without Kyrie and Love.

The only time they were on equal grounds team wise was 2016 and LeBron spanked that ass. And I haven’t even included 2021 in the play in game when LeBron hit a game winner over Curry or 2023 when an injured LeBron beat Curry in the playoffs.

LeBron owns his soul.[/QUOTE]

2016 was equal? Steph was hurt to begin with, and Warriors were up 3 - 1 when their 2nd best player got suspended for a close-out game at home in which their starting 5 blew his knee out, and then Iguodala hurt his back as well. 2016 makes up for 2015. Warriors likely would've won both if everything had been equal with how great Steph and Iggy and Green all were in 2015.

2023 it really was AD who carried the Lakers in that series. Lebron had a great close-out game but AD was their top performer in 3 out of the 4 wins, and the close-out game is arguable.

Curry's had greater impact on the game and achieved more than Lebron from 2015-2020. Steph birthed a whole era of basketball by himself. No one's had a bigger impact on the game in the post-MJ era than him.

Lebron hasn't done shit after 2020. 2023 was a cute little story but Lebron couldn't finish games and thus settled for 3s that all fell short in 4th quarters in the POs which ultimately cost them any chance of winning a title.

Curry led a rather mediocre team to a championship, no real star teammates. Lebron's had AD and Luka and still can't win shit because he's been too washed to play defense or close games since 2021.

Remember the Cavs won in 2016 even though Kyrie was hobbled in game 6.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;15039310]Remember the Cavs won in 2016 even though Kyrie was hobbled in game 6.[/QUOTE]

Yea yea and Love wasn't healthy at all either.

This is all stupid though. These exact same conversations have been had hundreds of times over the last 10 years. Someone with one agenda forgets to use context, then the other side corrects. Then that correcting side in a different argument (or different angle of the same argument) that suits [I]their[/I] agenda forgets to use context, then the original contextless person corrects [I]them[/I].

Story of ISH.