Kenyon Martin names 50 power forwards better than Draymond Green

I just saw more clips of that Gilbert Arenas podcast where the Kenyon/Draymond beef started I believe and it might be the worst basketball podcast I've ever seen. Arenas said Jamal Crawford was better than Ginobili and and Kenyon Martin agreed with him. Wtf?? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044819]Warriors wouldn't have been anywhere near as good if you replaced Draymond with Kenyon. Draymond was basically their vocal leader and playmaker, not to mention Draymond was far more versatile as a defender and player overall with top tier basketball IQ.

I'll never forget when Kenyon came out and made a big deal of Jeremy Lin wearing dreadlocks because he was Asian, while at the same time Kenyon had some Chinese tattoos. I've heard him speak in some podcasts and dude is kinda of dumb when discussing basketball, nowhere near the basketball IQ of Draymond.[/QUOTE]


He was a much greater physical talent than Dray. It would've been lob city for him in Golden State and he was an extremely tenacious defender as well. Handing the ball off to Curry and Klay isn't hard, or hitting wide open man off their action. That type of spacing and play didnt exist in Kenyons era. Dray would be cooked on offense and undersized on defense.

[QUOTE=tpols;15044822]He was a much greater physical talent than Dray. It would've been lob city for him in Golden State and he was an extremely tenacious defender as well. [B]Handing the ball off to Curry and Klay isn't hard, or hitting wide open man off their action. [/B]That type of spacing and play didnt exist in Kenyons era. Dray would be cooked on offense and undersized on defense.[/QUOTE]

Yea, good luck having the same success as Draymond as a playmaker. Career 2 APG for Kenyon and nowhere near the ball-handler Draymond was.

Warriors would lose tons of versatility replacing Draymond with Kenyon.

Was Kenyon even a top 10 PF of his era?

Duncan
KG
Dirk
Webber
Pau
Amare
JO
Rasheed
Bosh
Brand
Boozer
David West
Zach Randolph

Probably forgetting a player or 2.
Yall just running with Kenyon because yall don't like Dray lol.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15044813]The Warriors literally turned around when Dray became a full time starter over David Lee.
It also correlated with Steve Kerr replacing Mark Jackson as well. Take that information however you want it.

Kenyon Martin would not be an All-Star in today's NBA as well. He's was getting passed over behind David West and Carlos Boozer and today he would be getting passed over for Sabonis, Vucevic, Kessler, etc.
He would be basically Jarrett Allen in today's NBA.

I have a good feeling Draymond would make All-Star Teams over Anthony Mason (most similar comparison), Memet Okur, Jamaal Magloire.[/QUOTE]

Yeah you clearly never watched Kenyon Martin play ball. And if by chance you did your memory is so shot for your age. Jarrett Allen? Smh

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15044826]Was Kenyon even a top 10 PF of his era?

Duncan
KG
Dirk
Webber
Pau
Amare
JO
Rasheed
Bosh
Brand
Boozer
David West
Zach Randolph

Probably forgetting a player or 2.
Yall just running with Kenyon because yall don't like Dray lol.[/QUOTE]

Draymond isnt better than any of them.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044820]I just saw more clips of that Gilbert Arenas podcast where the Kenyon/Draymond beef started I believe and it might be the worst basketball podcast I've ever seen. Arenas said Jamal Crawford was better than Ginobili and and Kenyon Martin agreed with him. Wtf?? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

No the beef didn’t start on Gil’s podcast. It started on Marcellus Wiley podcast when Kmart was asked about Draymond antics. Get your facts straight. Draymond didn’t like that Kmart said he’s selective in who he bullies. You just wanted to take a cheap shot at Gil’s arena for whatever reason.

100% agree of course

Media and fans are just DUMB af - never played - so they're influenced by winning spotlight and inflate guys like Draymond and Pippen.

Meanwhile, actual players know when a guy is carried and a product of the system.. Houston found this out in 99'

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15044813]The Warriors literally turned around when Dray became a full time starter over David Lee.
It also correlated with Steve Kerr replacing Mark Jackson as well. Take that information however you want it.

Kenyon Martin would not be an All-Star in today's NBA as well. He's was getting passed over behind David West and Carlos Boozer and today he would be getting passed over for Sabonis, Vucevic, Kessler, etc.
He would be basically Jarrett Allen in today's NBA.

I have a good feeling Draymond would make All-Star Teams over Anthony Mason (most similar comparison), Memet Okur, Jamaal Magloire.[/QUOTE]

Allen is an all star.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15044839]Allen is an all star.[/QUOTE]

As an injury replacement. Let’s tell the whole truth here.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044830]No the beef didn’t start on Gil’s podcast. It started on Marcellus Wiley podcast when Kmart was asked about Draymond antics. Get your facts straight. Draymond didn’t like that Kmart said he’s selective in who he bullies. You just wanted to take a cheap shot at Gil’s arena for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of where the beef started, who the hell thinks Crawford was better than Ginobili? I brought up Arenas because he has a podcast with Kenyon and others and I was watching the vid where they were talking down on Draymond, Ginobili and Crawford were randomly brought up while they were discussing Draymond.

Funny enough, Kenyon came off like an emotional lesbian, pretty much bullying Nick Young and at one point calling him "stupid" and taking things too personal.

Kenyon needs to look in the mirror.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15044834]100% agree of course

Media and fans are just DUMB af - never played - so they're influenced by winning spotlight and inflate guys like Draymond and Pippen.

Meanwhile, actual players know when a guy is carried and a product of the system.. Houston found this out in 99'[/QUOTE]

Putting Pippen and Draymond in the same category is wild. Pippen actually led his team to 55 wins and finished top 3 in MVP voting that same year, without MJ.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044842]Regardless of where the beef started, who the hell thinks Crawford was better than Ginobili? I brought up Arenas because he has a podcast with Kenyon and others and I was watching the vid where they were talking down on Draymond, Ginobili and Crawford were randomly brought up while they were discussing Draymond.

Funny enough, Kenyon came off like an emotional lesbian, pretty much bullying Nick Young and at one point calling him "stupid" and taking things too personal.

Kenyon needs to look in the mirror.[/QUOTE]

The Nick and Kmart dynamic is well known. That’s how they interact with one another and Nick doesn’t back down. Nick is immature and annoying. But him and Mccants will get on Kmart ass and not care about the aggressive tone he has. I agreed with Nick when it came to the latest pod where he went at Kmart (after his list) saying he was in Jason Kidd backpack. He didn’t score much either. Actually called Kmart out on him saying he led nets in scoring. That was a lie both reg season and playoffs.

The Manu and Crawford argument is one where I don’t see how you can question their opinion on the manner you did. Disagree? Sure. But this notion ”who the hell thinks that?” and you somehow are privy to some type of knowledge they don’t is crazy fan entitlement. I see nothing wrong with Crawford being better than Manu. When the hell did Manu become better?


And last Kmart gives Draymond his flowers. He has taken shots at Draymond for his antics. And it’s usually based on something Draymond has done and they speak on it. Draymond is a selective bully. Kmart was not. Does any of it matter in the grand scheme of things? Not really. Both were glue guys.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15044834]100% agree of course

Media and fans are just DUMB af - never played - so they're influenced by winning spotlight and inflate guys like Draymond and Pippen.

Meanwhile, actual players know when a guy is carried and a product of the system.. Houston found this out in 99'[/QUOTE]

Your dislike for Pippen makes you give some awful takes. Pippen does everything Draymond does PLUS score. How are they the same?

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044846]The Manu and Crawford argument is one where I don’t see how you can question their opinion on the manner you did. Disagree? Sure. But this notion ”who the hell thinks that?” and you somehow are privy to some type of knowledge they don’t is crazy fan entitlement. I see nothing wrong with Crawford being better than Manu. When the hell did Manu become better? [/QUOTE]

You have be kidding me. :oldlol:

Manu was better at every aspect except maybe off the dribble shooting.

- More efficient as a scorer
- Much better playmaker
- Better defender
- Better 3 point shooter

Jamal was a one dimensional player, 1 on 1 scorer. Basically the modern day Vinnie Johnson with better handles.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044846]The Nick and Kmart dynamic is well known. That’s how they interact with one another and Nick doesn’t back down. Nick is immature and annoying. But him and Mccants will get on Kmart ass and not care about the aggressive tone he has. I agreed with Nick when it came to the latest pod where he went at Kmart (after his list) saying he was in Jason Kidd backpack. He didn’t score much either. Actually called Kmart out on him saying he led nets in scoring. That was a lie both reg season and playoffs.

The Manu and Crawford argument is one where I don’t see how you can question their opinion on the manner you did. Disagree? Sure. But this notion ”who the hell thinks that?” and you somehow are privy to some type of knowledge they don’t is crazy fan entitlement. I see nothing wrong with Crawford being better than Manu. When the hell did Manu become better?


And last Kmart gives Draymond his flowers. He has taken shots at Draymond for his antics. And it’s usually based on something Draymond has done and they speak on it. Draymond is a selective bully. Kmart was not. Does any of it matter in the grand scheme of things? Not really. Both were glue guys.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044841]As an injury replacement. Let’s tell the whole truth here.[/QUOTE]

Kenyon made it gow many times?

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044847]Your dislike for Pippen makes you give some awful takes. Pippen does everything Draymond does PLUS score. How are they the same?[/QUOTE]
He's always been like that about him ever since lmao.

[Img]https://i.ibb.co/JmpGnKz/IMG-20230528-095117.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15044887]Kenyon made it gow many times?[/QUOTE]

He’s made one all star. What’s your point?

[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2222578[/url]

Well, there goes that argument.

Funny enough, OP made that thread because he also heard what Arenas said. I'm guessing Arenas has been saying this for years.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044916][url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2222578[/url]

Well, there goes that argument.[/QUOTE]
So your take [I]barely[/I] wins a poll and you think this is sufficient evidence?

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15044919]So your take [I]barely[/I] wins a poll and you think this is sufficient evidence?[/QUOTE]

:lol

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044848]You have be kidding me. :oldlol:

Manu was better at every aspect except maybe off the dribble shooting.

- More efficient as a scorer
- Much better playmaker
- Better defender
- Better 3 point shooter

Jamal was a one dimensional player, 1 on 1 scorer. Basically the modern day Vinnie Johnson with better handles.[/QUOTE]



Seriously this isnt even a discussion. I was following the Hawks when Crawford when he was there and his laziness when he didn't have the ball in his hands was embarrassing. I don't think i ever saw anything even resembling hustle on defense, on the boards or pursuing loose balls.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044916][url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2222578[/url]

Well, there goes that argument.

Funny enough, OP made that thread because he also heard what Arenas said. I'm guessing Arenas has been saying this for years.[/QUOTE]

Years? He said it on a podcast where his clip went viral and a debate as who was the GOAT 6th man. For someone that runs to find links to post you sure don’t do much research if it doesn’t help your argument/opinion. Why is that? Like 37 people on realgm ends a debate. There we have it. Nothing to see here. Are they wrong? No. Is it their opinions? Yes. Is Gilbert opinion a fact? No. Gilbert favors scorers moreso than Swiss Army knife players. A player who can do a little bit of this little bit of that etc. agree to disagree. Individually Gil feels Crawford is the better player.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044923]Years? He said it on a podcast where his clip went viral and a debate as who was the GOAT 6th man. For someone that runs to find links to post you sure don’t do much research if it doesn’t help your argument/opinion. Why is that? Like 37 people on realgm ends a debate. There we have it. Nothing to see here. Are they wrong? No. Is it their opinions? Yes. Is Gilbert opinion a fact? No. Gilbert favors scorers moreso than Swiss Army knife players. A player who can do a little bit of this little bit of that etc. agree to disagree. Individually Gil feels Crawford is the better player.[/QUOTE]

Nobody in this thread or in that thread I linked thinks Jamal was better.

Just take the L.

I lost brain cells listening to that Gilbert Arenas podcast for their God awful takes.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044927]Nobody in this thread or in that thread I linked thinks Jamal was better.

Just take the L.

I lost brain cells listening to that Gilbert Arenas podcast for their God awful takes.[/QUOTE]

What L? You’re weird.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044846]I see nothing wrong with Crawford being better than Manu. When the hell did Manu become better? [/QUOTE]

This L.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044931]This L.[/QUOTE]

You don’t even know nor posted the argument Gilbert made in reference to Manu and Jamal Crawford. You sat there and posted about defense and rebounding. When that was never up for discussion when Gilbert said what he did. Like I said you’re weird.

You didn’t even know where the Draymond and Kmart issue stemmed from. For a guy who runs back and from to grab links. You sure as hell drop the ball doing research to give any context to what it is being said. Hilarious.

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044933]You don’t even know nor posted the argument Gilbert made in reference to Manu and Jamal Crawford.[/QUOTE]

I don't need to. All I heard was Gilbert saying Jamal was a better player than Ginobili and it was enough for me to not take anything he says seriously.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044934]I don't need to. All I heard was Gilbert saying Jamal was a better player than Ginobili and it was enough for me to not take anything he says seriously.[/QUOTE]

You don’t need to Lol Thank you for admitting this. This is all I really wanted to hear.

People actually take this podcast seriously?

- Popovich was a bad coach
- Gasol brothers were better than Jokic
- Iggy better than Kawhi
- Lamar Odom just as good as Anthony Davis

:roll:

[video=youtube;wztfvla1T5Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wztfvla1T5Y&t[/video]

The K Mart-Dray debate is wild.
Martin's peak scoring his is a whole 2 points higher than Dray. Martin had four games over 30 points to Drays once.
Martin only had double digit assist once, his high being 11. Dray has done in 194 times.
Dray also led the league in steals. Martin never led the league in any statistical category.

And yes, my Jarrett Alln comparison stands. About 15 PFs were better than Martin just in his era.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15044937]People actually take this podcast seriously?

- Popovich was a bad coach
- Gasol brothers were better than Jokic
- Iggy better than Kawhi
- Lamar Odom just as good as Anthony Davis

:roll:

[video=youtube;wztfvla1T5Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wztfvla1T5Y&t[/video][/QUOTE]

Believe it or not, everything is closer than it seems.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15044947]The K Mart-Dray debate is wild.
Martin's peak scoring his is a whole 2 points higher than Dray. Martin had four games over 30 points to Drays once.
Martin only had double digit assist once, his high being 11. Dray has done in 194 times.
Dray also led the league in steals. Martin never led the league in any statistical category.

And yes, my Jarrett Alln comparison stands. About 15 PFs were better than Martin just in his era.[/QUOTE]

Martin played in an era of a slower pace when pf were a thing. Some teams dont even play a 4 anymore and if they do they are generally more of a small forward type or even guard in martins day. Draymond would probably be a 3 in martins day. Really hard to compare. Rim runners like allen werent really a thing either

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15044954]Martin played in an era of a slower pace when pf were a thing. Some teams dont even play a 4 anymore and if they do they are generally more of a small forward type or even guard in martins day. Draymond would probably be a 3 in martins day. Really hard to compare. Rim runners like allen werent really a thing either[/QUOTE]

I just looker at those Nets teams, he wasn't even the leading scorer. Richard Jefferson and Jason Kidd were scoring more. My man's can't even outscore J-Kidd and he's yapping. Pack him up.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15044947]The K Mart-Dray debate is wild.
Martin's peak scoring his is a whole 2 points higher than Dray. Martin had four games over 30 points to Drays once.
Martin only had double digit assist once, his high being 11. Dray has done in 194 times.
Dray also led the league in steals. Martin never led the league in any statistical category.

And yes, my Jarrett Alln comparison stands. About 15 PFs were better than Martin just in his era.[/QUOTE]

First you’re comparing two different eras. The game aren’t remotely close to being the same from a pace/scoring aspect. Second Jarrett Allen is a center. Kmart is a 4 who could guard multiple positions. Especially elite perimeter scorers.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15044955]I just looker at those Nets teams, he wasn't even the leading scorer. Richard Jefferson and Jason Kidd were scoring more. My man's can't even outscore J-Kidd and he's yapping. Pack him up.[/QUOTE]

Would have out scored kidd on same amou t of shots. Sub 40% triple double king!

[QUOTE=GOBB;15044956]First you’re comparing two different eras. The game aren’t remotely close to being the same from a pace/scoring aspect. Second Jarrett Allen is a center. Kmart is a 4 who could guard multiple positions. Especially elite perimeter scorers.[/QUOTE]
Im aware they're from different eras bu we're not bout to act like Kenyon would be getting Karl Malone numbers if he played today.
Yes, Jarrett Allen is a center who's the same size as K-Mart. That's why I made the comparison.

In closing, Kenyon Martin would br Jarrett Allen if he plays today.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15044959]Would have out scored kidd on same amou t of shots. Sub 40% triple double king![/QUOTE]


Different era. Lowest shooting % era of all time it was and they forced Jason Kidd to carry the scoring load on a title contending team when that was his only weakness. Best rebounding PG ever. Best defensive PG ever. Incredible general floorsmanship and intuitive passing. Brought a 20 win team to B2B Finals.

Kind of funny you would hate on him. He was like the point guard version of Rudy Gobert but showed up in the playoffs and led teams incredibly deep.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15044959]Would have out scored kidd on same amou t of shots. Sub 40% triple double king![/QUOTE]

A whole 1 and a half shots more.

[QUOTE=tpols;15044961]Different era. Lowest shooting % era of all time it was and they forced Jason Kidd to carry the scoring load on a title contending team when that was his only weakness. Best rebounding PG ever. Best defensive PG ever. Incredible general floorsmanship and intuitive passing. Brought a 20 win team to B2B Finals.

Kind of funny you would hate on him. He was like the point guard version of Rudy Gobert but showed up in the playoffs and led teams incredibly deep.[/QUOTE]

No one forced kidd to take the scoring load. He had the ball. Stockton shot over 50% in same era. Not the same team that won 20 despite the narrative. East sucked. Still does despite beasted think otherwise. I like efficiency even before it was a thing. Gobert efficient. Plays within himself. Knows what he is good at and excels.