Ben Wallace and Joakim Noah separated in locker room...at half time

Who cares if Noah is a rookie, by the sounds of it, he was the only one who wanted to win. Atleast he's showing heart and determination and not wanting to give up. From what I read in the article Wallets should not of even confronted Noah, that to me shows that he is more concerned about his money than winning.

Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.

[QUOTE=Da KO King]Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, if your bench starts laughing, you may aswell just give up. Noah was in the right and that sad sack of a player, Wallets, was in the wrong.

Noah only makes 2.1 mil. I'd take him on Dallas in a second.

[QUOTE=Da KO King]Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.[/QUOTE]
I'm not taking a side yet, because I don't know what exactly Noah said. I am inclined to agree with Noah's sentiments, but he's going to have a hard time establishing himself as a leader on a team with so many players that are more experienced than him (at the NBA level). Which is why I think he should be traded, because I don't think Chi is going to blow up the roster to get a group of guys that would follow his lead; he's not a valuable enough type of player for them to do that, even if it may just be the right thing to do. I just hope that this experience doesn't damage Noah's attitude, because there are a lot of teams out there that want guys that are focused on winning. I bet the Cs would love him.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green]I'm not taking a side yet, because I don't know what exactly Noah said. I am inclined to agree with Noah's sentiments, but he's going to have a hard time establishing himself as a leader on a team with so many players that are more experienced than him (at the NBA level). Which is why I think he should be traded, because I don't think Chi is going to blow up the roster to get a group of guys that would follow his lead; he's not a valuable enough type of player for them to do that, even if it may just be the right thing to do. I just hope that this experience doesn't damage Noah's attitude, because there are a lot of teams out there that want guys that are focused on winning. I bet the Cs would love him.[/QUOTE]

That would be interesting. He seems like a tornado ripping through a lockerroom. He inspires some to play better, but he rubs the vets the wrong way. His arrogance and disrespect makes me concerned he'd polarize any locker room with such a distinct mix of veterans and youth. Remember, it was the Bulls players that extended his suspension. But hey, if you want him on the C's I'd entirely support that. I'm hoping my team can get past Boston in the playoffs...

On the other hand, winning usually takes away much of the locker room drama...

[QUOTE=Trancey]
How much can Bulls save if they cut "Wallets" contract?
[/QUOTE]
nothing. this isnt the nba. well, they took a risk picking him up knowing he was limited and long in the tooth, but they thought it would help dismantle the pistons as well. too bad he tarnished his excellent workingmans career with this stint

[QUOTE=Da KO King]Anyone that doesn't back Jo Noah on this one is clueless.

When your team is down you don't laugh on the bench, period.[/QUOTE]
I dont think the issue was really the laughing on the bench. more likely, noah's track record of tardiness and coach fighting leaves him little room to criticize other players, esp as a rookie. cmon now, its not like hes been the answer in the middle for them, hell aaron grey has played better than him at times.

[QUOTE=Patrick27]That would be interesting. He seems like a tornado ripping through a lockerroom. He inspires some to play better, but he rubs the vets the wrong way. His arrogance and disrespect makes me concerned he'd polarize any locker room with such a distinct mix of veterans and youth. Remember, it was the Bulls players that extended his suspension. But hey, if you want him on the C's I'd entirely support that. I'm hoping my team can get past Boston in the playoffs...

On the other hand, winning usually takes away much of the locker room drama...[/QUOTE]
The thing is, if he had any sense he'd see that players on Garnett and Pierce don't need to be told to care about winning. I'd bank on him being smart enough to see that much. If he did, he'd be another passionate rebounder and defender, lesser version of Garnett to bolster the bench, and maybe even start if the opposition featured no bruisers.

Noah is a stud for pulling cards on his own team.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green]The thing is, if he had any sense he'd see that players on Garnett and Pierce don't need to be told to care about winning. I'd bank on him being smart enough to see that much. If he did, he'd be another passionate rebounder and defender, lesser version of Garnett to bolster the bench, and maybe even start if the opposition featured no bruisers.[/QUOTE]

You're absolutely right - the energy he brings could make the Celtics downright terrifying (if they aren't already). You're a Boston fan, and it sounds like you'd take the risk. If I were in your shoes, I'm not sure I'd want to tinker considering the success so far this season. To each his own, I suppose.

Whose minutes would he take? Send away Perkins or Baby? or just spot minutes that Pollard now plays? Personally, I see Noah as a spark player, and if he can bring the energy for 5-6 minutes, once per half, that's enough for me. That is, as long as he's not becoming a locker room problem while doing so...

I'd see him as a part-time starting center, taking almost all of Pollard's minutes, a little of Perk's pt and making Scalibrine disappear. Davis may just be the player traded to get him, but if he isn't I could see them both playing in spurts. Maybe stop playing the small line-up that has Posey at pf entirely.

Spurs should make a move at it to get Noah

So there was a thread the other day on ISH where Noah was suspended and one of the posters put a bet down to say that Ben Wallace was the ring leader behind the suspension of Noah, I'd say he'd be pretty close to the mark.

Ben Wallace has been the worst thing that has happened to the Chicago franchise. He's getting to the point of being a moody *****. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy also undermined skiles and had a word in the ear of Gordon and Deng regarding their contracts.

[QUOTE=kumquat]So there was a thread the other day on ISH where Noah was suspended and one of the posters put a bet down to say that Ben Wallace was the ring leader behind the suspension of Noah, I'd say he'd be pretty close to the mark.

Ben Wallace has been the worst thing that has happened to the Chicago franchise. He's getting to the point of being a moody *****. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy also undermined skiles and had a word in the ear of Gordon and Deng regarding their contracts.[/QUOTE]
the media reports I saw had quotes from adrian griffen. Sounds like he is the vocal veteran in the lockerroom. Wallace is reserved (mostly) and mopey

[QUOTE=hwliuLAP]Spurs should make a move at it to get Noah[/QUOTE]

Heh, yeah. I'd love to see Noah try to tell Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili how to behave on the bench...

Better yet, send him to Utah. I want to see him and Sloan throw down. I'd take Sloan in 4 rounds.

No, wait! Send him to Sacramento and introduce him to Artest!

[QUOTE=Patrick27]Heh, yeah. I'd love to see Noah try to tell Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili how to behave on the bench...

Better yet, send him to Utah. I want to see him and Sloan throw down. I'd take Sloan in 4 rounds.

No, wait! Send him to Sacramento and introduce him to Artest![/QUOTE]

Those guys wouldn't force Noah to speak up in the lockerroom, dip****.

Use your head before you post.

[QUOTE=i seen hippos]Those guys wouldn't force Noah to speak up in the lockerroom, dip****.

Use your head before you post.[/QUOTE]

Nobody *forces* Noah to speak up - it's just his personality. At least that's what I've observed. His whole persona and game is based around his energy and abrasiveness. From day one he hasn't acted like a prototypical rookie, and he's turned his whole team against him in Chicago.

Was the dip**** comment really necessary? :confusedshrug:

ok for the record I'd just like to say BEN WALLACE SUCKS!! look at his guy's friggin numbers 4pts 7reb 1ast per game??? are you kidding me!!!! why is he a frachise player????? how could you possibly like Ben Wallace after the 04 season? yeah he used to be alright for like 1 season and even then he was a 1 demensional player that could'nt score. good for Noah for actually showing some heart homie needs to bounce from that **** team

[QUOTE=SHEED_ gangsta]ok for the record I'd just like to say BEN WALLACE SUCKS!! look at his guy's friggin numbers 4pts 7reb 1ast per game??? are you kidding me!!!! why is he a frachise player????? how could you possibly like Ben Wallace after the 04 season? yeah he used to be alright for like 1 season and even then he was a 1 demensional player that could'nt score. good for Noah for actually showing some heart homie needs to bounce from that **** team[/QUOTE]

I have a hard time believing Ben Wallace is the only one disturbed by Noah's outbursts. He's yelled at the coach, complained about teammates, and called his team out in the media after playing his first NBA game. He hasn't played half a season yet! If I were a GM, that's more than a red flag to me, that's a red bombardment of flags...

EDIT: Oh, thanks for reminding me about the constant tardiness too. I'd forgotten.

[QUOTE=boozehound]I dont think the issue was really the laughing on the bench. more likely, noah's track record of tardiness and coach fighting leaves him little room to criticize other players, esp as a rookie. cmon now, its not like hes been the answer in the middle for them, hell aaron grey has played better than him at times.[/QUOTE]
Laughing while your team is losing is not acceptable under any circumstances. It’s something you learn in Peewee ball that NEVER changes.

Past mistakes do not over-ride a guy’s ability to point out right and wrong. Jo Noah could have punched a coach in the face two days ago; he would still be 100% correct in raising a complaint about laughing on the bench.

Honestly, for Coach Boylan to not address it when it happened and Ben Wallets [I](best derogatory nickname in sports right now)[/I] wanting to fight over it says a lot about the Bulls’ shortcomings this season.

[QUOTE=Da KO King]Laughing while your team is losing is not acceptable under any circumstances. It

[QUOTE=boozehound]Next time your team is losing, watch the bench the whole game. There will be laughter.


Im not saying its right, simply that its fairly hypocritical for a guy who just got into a physical confrontation with a coach ( a much bigger no no than laughing) to be trying to bust chops over proper behavior. Again, it has as much to do with how little respect he has garnered from his teammates this season (due to his arrogance, abrasiveness, whatever) as it does the actual incident. Hes not respected, so no one is really going to listen to him (they probably are fed up with his attitude and so forth)[/QUOTE]

Exactly. This would be much different if it were coming from Adrian Griffin or Joe Smith. It's too bad one of them didn't bring it up in a more tactful way. I have a hard time believing Noah does anything tactfully...

[QUOTE=Patrick27]I have a hard time believing Ben Wallace is the only one disturbed by Noah's outbursts. He's yelled at the coach, complained about teammates, and called his team out in the media after playing his first NBA game. He hasn't played half a season yet! If I were a GM, that's more than a red flag to me, that's a red bombardment of flags...

EDIT: Oh, thanks for reminding me about the constant tardiness too. I'd forgotten.[/QUOTE]
Last year Wallace fought with Scott Skiles over something as stupid as his headband, does that matter now?

The fans will let their opinion known when the Bulls come back from the road trip. They'll cheer loudly for Noah, and they'll give Wallace the Marbury treatment. Soon after Reinsdorf (who only cares about money) will not like the fact that people will stop going to the games because of Wallace's presence.

Wallace will not finish this season on the Bulls. Either he'll be traded or more likely sent home.

He's done with the Bulls.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green]Last year Wallace fought with Scott Skiles over something as stupid as his headband, does that matter now?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how it's relevant. I don't recall the whole team getting together to have Wallace benched over his issues.

While Noah may have his heart in the right place trying to motivate and encourage his team (and may be correct in what he's saying), his own (well documented) issues have caused them to lose respect for him.

[QUOTE=Patrick27]Heh, yeah. I'd love to see Noah try to tell Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili how to behave on the bench...

Better yet, send him to Utah. I want to see him and Sloan throw down. I'd take Sloan in 4 rounds.

No, wait! Send him to Sacramento and introduce him to Artest![/QUOTE]

Sloan would love Noah.
He is picture perfect for hard nosed effort coach like Jerry.

[QUOTE=Valliant13]Sloan would love Noah.
He is picture perfect for hard nosed effort coach like Jerry.[/QUOTE]

Noah's often tardy and got into a scuffle with his current coach. Are you sure about that?

[QUOTE=Patrick27]I'm not sure how it's relevant. I don't recall the whole team getting together to have Wallace benched over his issues.[/QUOTE]

Wallace's contract and closeness to Reinsdorf (through his agent) has made Wallace untouchable. He literally has more power than the GM (Paxson) right now. If you piss Wallace off, he'll find a way to get rid of you.

Ask Scott Skiles.

[QUOTE=dak121]The fans will let their opinion known when the Bulls come back from the road trip. They'll cheer loudly for Noah, and they'll give Wallace the Marbury treatment. Soon after Reinsdorf (who only cares about money) will not like the fact that people will stop going to the games because of Wallace's presence.

Wallace will not finish this season on the Bulls. Either he'll be traded or more likely sent home.

He's done with the Bulls.[/QUOTE]
fans arent always in the right you know.:rolleyes:

especially when its regarding a situation reported through undisclosed sources and the media filter. The media is always looking for controversy. thats what sells

No ones taking wallace of your hands until the last year of his deal. you are stuck with him (or at least his salary) for another 2.5 years

[QUOTE=dak121]Wallace's contract and closeness to Reinsdorf (through his agent) has made Wallace untouchable. He literally has more power than the GM (Paxson) right now. If you piss Wallace off, he'll find a way to get rid of you.

Ask Scott Skiles.[/QUOTE]
sure didnt ahve anything to do with their miserable start and the terrible play from their "big" 3 (Kirk, ben, deng) :rolleyes:

get some perspective

[QUOTE=Patrick27]I'm not sure how it's relevant. I don't recall the whole team getting together to have Wallace benched over his issues.[/QUOTE]
I mention it because people talk about Noah getting into it with Coaches. In that regard, how is Wallace any better?

You can't argue with Wallace's record (Carisle, Brown, Flip, Skiles), but Bulls fas are trying to blame the season on him when he is such a small part of their terribleness.

I'm with Noah on this one.

I can't believe he's the only one who's pissed about players not caring during a loss.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green]I mention it because people talk about Noah getting into it with Coaches. In that regard, how is Wallace any better?[/QUOTE]
because he still has the respect of his teammates? Look we can speculate all we want, but we are really overblowing a undisclosed source media report about a lockeroom altercation. WE cant really know what goes on, but it is clear that his teammates think Noah was way out of line last week. Its stupid to present yourself as a vocal leader in the lockerroom over a really small issue right after your teammates asked the coaching staff to discipline you. Noah's passion may be a great benefit on the court, but it also leads him to make stupid decisions.

[QUOTE=saKf]I'm with Noah on this one.

I can't believe he's the only one who's pissed about players not caring during a loss.[/QUOTE]
57-52 at the half, not nearly the blowout it turned into after noah ruined the teams energy for the second half. laughing and not caring are two entirely different things. What if they laughed cause the other team airballed a layup, or some other oncourt situation that was relatively light hearted?

[QUOTE=boozehound]Next time your team is losing, watch the bench the whole game. There will be laughter.


Im not saying its right, simply that its fairly hypocritical for a guy who just got into a physical confrontation with a coach ( a much bigger no no than laughing) to be trying to bust chops over proper behavior. Again, it has as much to do with how little respect he has garnered from his teammates this season (due to his arrogance, abrasiveness, whatever) as it does the actual incident. Hes not respected, so no one is really going to listen to him (they probably are fed up with his attitude and so forth)[/QUOTE]

If there is laughter it's usually from the guys that don't play much (10-12).
In college we lost a game and two guys that never played (we dressed 15 guys) were laughing between themselves for most of the second half. out next practice we ran suicides for 45 minutes straight as a team then to stop we had to run a suicide under 30 and whom ever finished 1ts could stop but you had to be under 30 seconds. it ended up being almost 1h and a 1/2 of running. Funny thing was this was after our 1st and only loss and was the last game of the season (before playoffs)

[QUOTE=boozehound]because he still has the respect of his teammates? Look we can speculate all we want, but we are really overblowing a undisclosed source media report about a lockeroom altercation. WE cant really know what goes on, but it is clear that his teammates think Noah was way out of line last week. Its stupid to present yourself as a vocal leader in the lockerroom over a really small issue right after your teammates asked the coaching staff to discipline you. Noah's passion may be a great benefit on the court, but it also leads him to make stupid decisions.[/QUOTE]
I can't be completely sure of this, but I suspect Wallace getting more respect from the team has much to do with him being an All-Star, DPoY, and World Champion while Noah is a rookie that most of the players don't want to hear telling them how to do their jobs. It's a case of past accomplishments and reputation getting a guy more slack. That does not, however, make Wallace more right.

I think people are missing the real issue here. Ben Wallace is jealous that Noah now has the best hair on the team.

[I]Nick(Tampa): Coach For the first time in a long time Im confused about the Bulls. Is it fair for Wallace to pick and choose when he wants to be a leader? He turned down being team captain. If Noah wants to win as bad as he says he does. . . does it make sense that he is routinely late, and forgets plays? I need your insight.

SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:04 PM ET ) Noah has made a few mistakes, but is part of the solution without question. Wallace is not. Period.[/I]


from the david thorpe chat