Any one taking supplements for working out? (protein, creatine, testosterone)

[QUOTE]Birth? The stuff has been used by physique athletes since the late 1960's. Frank Zane was popping 5-10 grams of this stuff daily Vince Gironda recommend it in his supplement regimen, but after all these years, the response has been pretty weak and most of the old time guys have called it "useless." No to mention that science has shown time and time again that it possesses no real ergogenic benefit. [/QUOTE]

I meant mostly to the mainstream. Yes arginine has been around for ever but really hit the forefront with the NO2 phenomenon. But like the industry shows, advertising plays a big role.



[QUOTE] This is why arginine is great for helping to reduce blood pressure, however the supplement companies don't account for the bodies own checks and balances that prevent arginine from having any real impact on muscle-building or nutrient distribution.[/QUOTE]

Agree on the blood pressue. I've been slinging it for years for that reason. Not the top supplement of choice, but I've suggested for many for lowering blood pressure.



[QUOTE] In fact, if you want an excellent nutrient partitioning product, go get some coleus forksholi in bulk. It has also been shown to support the thyroid, which can lead to increased fat loss. It is the ultimate supplement for maintaining LBM while on a strict diet. [/QUOTE]

Not sold on coleus. For thyroid support in regards to wieght management, I'd either go apple cider vinegar or supplements based on sea vegetables. Kelp is really underatted for this. In Canada they have a whole line on greens and stuff of that category.





[QUOTE]Semi-false. There are mild increases of growth hormone associated with arginine use, but this has never been shown to have any ergogenic or even fat-loss benefit. Also, regular arginine use has been shown to decrease growth hormone response over time. The mechanism behind this is not yet well understood.


The best way to produce growth hormone is to get to sleep at a decent hour, on an empty stomach, and train on a relatively empty stomach, as growth hormone in the presence of insulin is a no-go. [/QUOTE]

I didn't say it was the best way, I said it helps with better production.





[QUOTE] I run my own small chain of supplement stores, so its my job to know my stuff regarding supplements. I also spent time working pretty extensively for a couple of these companies, big and small, so I know the ins and outs of the industry and what a screwed up place it is.[/QUOTE]

Congrats to you. You're probably not a big fan of me then being an SSM for GNC. But I do support all companies and never detract on their personal business ethics. although we do have the rep for commissions, I do try my best to be ethical.

[QUOTE] Scivation Xtend-BCAA supplement, take this during workouts, watermelon is the best tasting by far.[/QUOTE]

I just started taking that. I love it. Scivation sent me free bottles. One Watermelon, one grape.


[QUOTE] Millennium Cordygen-Chinese women's Olympic team used this stuff, it gives a very noticeable boost to overall endurance.[/QUOTE]


Cordyceps right? I've heard of people using it for altutiude training. Heard great stuff about it increasing oxygen capacity.

[QUOTE=ForceOfNature]Okay, so anyone know where can I find such products? What types of foods, drinks, other products?[/QUOTE]

just go to your neighborhood GNC

:rockon:

FCUK GNC ROFL

[QUOTE=wTFaMonkey]just go to your neighborhood GMC

:rockon:[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: Always get your supplements from General Motors:rockon:

Just playing with ya bud. Thanks for your support.

[QUOTE=hateraid]I meant mostly to the mainstream. Yes arginine has been around for ever but really hit the forefront with the NO2 phenomenon. But like the industry shows, advertising plays a big role.





Agree on the blood pressue. I've been slinging it for years for that reason. Not the top supplement of choice, but I've suggested for many for lowering blood pressure.

[/QUOTE]


Hawthorn and celery seed are more effective for this purpose.


[QUOTE]
Not sold on coleus. For thyroid support in regards to wieght management, I'd either go apple cider vinegar or supplements based on sea vegetables. Kelp is really underatted for this. In Canada they have a whole line on greens and stuff of that category. [/QUOTE]

The vast majority of kelp is contaminated with heavy metals. There was a story on this awhile ago, and as such, I don't carry kelp any more. Dulse powder might be an acceptable replacement for some, but as far as the thyroid goes, high-potency coleus, along with 7-keto-dhea and bacopa monieri are the gold standard in supplements.

Apple cider vinegar is an anecdotal supplement. It has no scientific-backing, so I can't really put it in any sort of category. Obviously some folks feel it works, but without seeing that reproduced in some sort of studies, I'm disinclined to recommend it.






[QUOTE]
I didn't say it was the best way, I said it helps with better production.
[/QUOTE]


I've only seen supplements used for this purpose...benefitting those who are hypopituitary. There is evidence that certain supplements will impact growth hormone release(although most of the so-called secretagogues are total and utter crap as they often contain maltodextrin), but there is no evidence that this leads to any sort of benefit. In theory, it should lead to lowered bodyfat levels, immune-boosting and some sort of ergogenic benefit, but this has not been demonstrated in a clinical setting.

However, if one were to be hellbent on trying to increase their growth hormone response, I would recommend melatonin, l-theanine, GABA, DMAE and Phenibut for that purpose. Basically anything that helps to promote deep sleep and relaxation, should have a positive impact on growth hormone release.




[QUOTE]

Congrats to you. You're probably not a big fan of me then being an SSM for GNC. But I do support all companies and never detract on their personal business ethics. although we do have the rep for commissions, I do try my best to be ethical.[/QUOTE]



Meh, I'm more concerned about Vitamin Shoppe than GNC. The GNC's around here have really gone downhill and have taken to hiring strictly elderly women in the 60-75 year old age range it seems.

[QUOTE=hateraid]I just started taking that. I love it. Scivation sent me free bottles. One Watermelon, one grape. [/QUOTE]


Try the orange too, the stuff is phenomenal. I have had some outstanding workouts using it, and have become a huge proponent of amino acid supplementation in the past few years.




[QUOTE]
Cordyceps right? I've heard of people using it for altutiude training. Heard great stuff about it increasing oxygen capacity.[/QUOTE]


Yep. The company behind it makes some top-notch quality products and is one that I would recommend to anybody looking to improve their sports/athletic performance. I have customers that are top-notch athletes who swear by the company and their no-frills, no wacky advertising approach.

[QUOTE]Try the orange too, the stuff is phenomenal. I have had some outstanding workouts using it, and have become a huge proponent of amino acid supplementation in the past few years. [/QUOTE]


Lucky I've got a hookup with a distributor for Scivation. But for the everyday Joe, the stuff is expenssive. I would more put people on a good cost effective BCAA. I've been using Leutor as well, but I would generally put people on GNC BCAA's.






[QUOTE] Yep. The company behind it makes some top-notch quality products and is one that I would recommend to anybody looking to improve their sports/athletic performance. I have customers that are top-notch athletes who swear by the company and their no-frills, no wacky advertising approach.[/QUOTE]

The info I got on the Chinese distance team was that they were taking a wasp version of Royal Jelly/Bee pollen. Apperantly there's this wasp with a massive wingspan down in China. Because if the size of this species people figured that the nutrient content was high. I've sold a few NHL players a product called Vespa that was similar to that. Some swear by it. Most of the NHLers take Endurox though.

Crap, I took to long posting my original reply I did not see you contraditcting my promoting Armeggedon. Here's some point in rebuttle




[QUOTE] See those carbs and sugar? Arginine CANNOT be absorbed in a hyper-glycemic environment. This is the reason why most NO products recommend that you take them on an empty stomach, but seeing as how many contain sugar and carbs that inhibit absorption of arginine, this is a moot point entirely. [/QUOTE]

Slows absorption yes. Completely nulls it no. Yes it is suggested to be taken on an empty stomach for best absorption, but the key word is suggested. Taken with food or other supplements does not neccessarily mean will not absord. It's just like saying when you eat your food, amino acids from the protien you eat will not absord because you're having it with carbs and fat. Also ALA is added to ensure nutrient uptake. So that statement is semi-false.



[QUOTE] Here you got your electrolytes and B vitamins, pretty standard combination. [/QUOTE]

A requirement for hydration and delaying muscle fatigue.





[QUOTE]A GIANT BIGASS PROPRIETARY FORMULA! So you have no clue what does what in this product, or how much of anything there is really. You can expect that there is a heavy dose of Glycerol, as it is cheap and makes for a good iller.
You have no way of telling just how much creatine is in here, and especially, you have no way of telling how much caffeine there. Ultimately, it is the caffeine that is the most effective part of these formula's, as most folks have no clue as to what is doing what in a particular product. Basically, this is a product that is based off an energy rush that comes from caffeine, however, you can circumvent the whole process and go to the supermarket and buy some No-Doze for $5 and end up with pretty much the same results, minus the pretty labeling and hyped up advertising.[/QUOTE]

Proprietary blend is neccessary for the preservation of your product. For those who wonder, it protects your products from copycats from knocking off your product and resilling under their label for a cheaper cost. More than 90% of sports nutrition companies label with proprietary blend.

You stated early the sugar content and led to believe this is all sugar. Read the label and it clearly states 4g or sugar. 4 grams in a 26 gram serving is not alot. That only 15% of the product. The rest is quality amino acids, and electrolyte replenishing products. Again great for muscle endurance.

Glycerol is more than a filler and the main reason why I love this product. If glycerol was just a filler than why did the IOC put it on their banned substance list for one cycle then take it off and why doesn't every company use it?
Many body builders who are in their final cycle of competition and endurance training use straight gycerol for energy because it has the GI of regular table sugar without the production of insulin and the side affects of yeast buildup and intestinal plaque. Furthermore it promotes hyperhydration and cooling core body temperature. The two biggests deterents for weight training muscle fatigue. Plus in that hyperhydrated state, products like creatine function much better. That is a scientific fact (I can reference you to a chemist I've consulted that will back that statement and will gladly forward you him or refences). The pure L-Arginine that it uses helps the blood flow, maintain NO levels not like the AAKG version. And I'm not cailiming it's the arginine but the KIC molecule its's binded to that casues the bad side affects and it's counter production when used with caffine. KIC may dilate vessels coming into the muscles but does not dialate vessels going out. pure Arginine is not affected by that. The side affect of that is blood being saturated into the muscle but not escaping. Again, that's caused by the KIC molecule. Hence the massive blood pumps people get from AAKG.

I'd love to get at you guys more about this product. PM me if you'd like to know. pejadirk, if you like, I could forward your concerns to some chemists or you can PM me if you like, thanks.