Do you think the Beijing Olympics will be Rigged?

[QUOTE=dd24]Changing 6 players on a team is a substantial change.

Why do I bring up the all-star game? I believe I already mentioned this. The reason I bring it up is because like I've said we don't send our best players to the Olympics. It really does have to do with the best players. The best players are the most popular so they get voted in. Sure there are a few snubs every year but that's going to happen. Look at the rosters for last years all-star game. Those are certainly the best players in the NBA. KG, Tim Duncan, Shaq, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Chris Bosh, and Vince Carter all aren't on the Olympic team. Who in the world could match up with Team USA if they had Howard, KG, Duncan, and Shaq in the paint? But if we limit that to just Howard now the gap closes a little. Puerto Rico didn't beat the best players in the United States. Carlos Arroyo has gotten every opportunity in the world to be a star in the NBA. It hasn't happened and it won't happen. He can't even crack a starting line up on a team that is dying for help at the PG position.

I do disagree that the FIBA rules promote more of a team sport and this is pretty much what started this whole discussion. I believe the rules were needed to be made different because it gives players who are less athletic more of a chance. One of the results of this could be taken as that would force the players to work as a team but I don't see it as that. The way I see it is like this. It's kind of like when you are little kids and you are playing a board game. There's that one person who always wins, so you change the rules to give yourself a chance to win. Since there wasn't enough athletes that could completely take over a game it wasn't fair, so the rules were changed. I don't believe NBA rules are supreme and the only way to go. I truly think a combination of the two would be good for basketball as a whole. I don't like to watch players flop. I don't like when stupid touch fouls get called. No true NBA fan does. But I also dislike a trapezoid lane that forces teams with great centers to not use them. I dislike the fact that a team who can't play interior defense doesn't half to. If a team can't stop someone slashing into the lane they don't need to. There's certain aspects that are killed with both the rules, which is why I hope FIBA and the NBA work together to take the best from both. I love basketball in general and think it is in the best interest of the sport.

We can bring up Spanoulis, but again that is a team that didn't have it's best players on the court. Chris Paul then and now are two completely different things. Paul had only been in the league for one year at that time. The teams in 2004 and 2006 are by far the worst teams we've sent since 1992. In 2006 I would expect Spanoulis to tear him up in international play. In 2008 it will be much different. We can talk about Kobe too if you would like. He's really not a ball hog and really he's a pretty good teammate. When he was shooting a lot it's because he had to. He didn't have a team. He didn't have good players around him. It makes it tough to play a team game. You probably don't get to see the things about how Kobe takes the team out to dinner and picks up the tab all the time. If you really think he's a ball hog be sure to watch him play in the Olympics this year. You'll see how efficient he is and how ferocious he is on defense. Not to mention he'll be doing that with a hand that requires surgery.

It doesn't make sense for some Europeans to enter the NBA draft. One of the NBA's biggest mistakes is the rookie salary cap. There's players who would make more staying overseas than they will playing in the NBA as a rookie. I think if they started to realize this we would have less busts. If someone is good enough to be a lottery pick they can probably make more money. But it makes no sense for someone to enter the draft if they are going to be a late first round or second round pick. With the US dollar weakening added into that equation a mediocre player is better off in Europe. Let's face it second round picks no matter where they come from are all busts with just a few exceptions. Then there's the flip side of that too. There are teams in Europe that are willing to pay star athletes. Look at the offer Webber got from Olympiacos. He wasn't going to get anywhere near that here.

I actually don't understand the lash out against team USA. Basketball isn't even the #1 sport in Europe. When the USA loses in soccer you don't see us getting all upset. Our best athletes play in baseball, basketball, and football. Moreso basketball and football than anything. We should be winning at basketball and football, not that football is even a world wide sport. We should be losing at soccer. We can put out a team that is decent but obviously not a favorite. It's just the opposite for Europe. A European team should win at soccer. Many of your best athletes play soccer instead of basketball. You can put some decent teams on the floor for basketball but most are obviously not going to be favorites.[/QUOTE]
In some things we agree in others we don't,fair enough thats the point of these forums.One thing though,basketball in lithuania is the number 1 sport,it isn't in the USA.In Slovenia basketball is also more important than football(proper football that is,the one you kick a ball with your feet hence the name,and not the one you handle a melon and occassionally kick).In countries like Croatia,Serbia and Greece basketball is also on a par with football.
The board game analogy I just don't get.

The euroleague is a violent game and it will depends how team usa will adjust to the fiba rules including hand checking and contact, I could see it being both no big deal or a major issue

[QUOTE=simasu01]Honestly, dd24, you know that there also are Euro teams that play with weak teams. In 2000, Lithuania almost beat team USA. A country of 3 million people. Shouldn't you be blowing teams out like that? And Lithuania never plays with their full squad. Only 2 NBA players, and Songaila isn't even that good. Ilgauskas last played for the national team in 1993. That means we haven't played with a full squad at least since then. For some reason, the NBA did send of their best players in 2002, 04 and 06. LeBron, Melo, and Wade were on 04 and 06 teams, and they are the faces of the NBA right? KG played in 2000, and as I mentioned, they were a shot away from losing. In 2002, USA was 6th in the world champs, and the team featured no superstars, but they should have still done much better, because they're NBA players and all stars, right? Same goes to 04 and 06. I watched most USA games in 2007 Americas, I was impressed, but also not convinced that they were good, because they faced no competition. Argentina had their scrubs, and Puerto Rico was dissapointing. I wish Canada had Nash, that would have been fun to watch. USA played like it was an all star game, throwing no look passes, alley oops and all that. That's fun to watch sure, but what will they do when they see defence? Spain should be the biggest problem, and then Lithuania and Argentina come next. USA has only Spain to compete with in the group, and hopefully they will get 2 top qualifiers there, like Croatia, Greece, Slovenia or Brazil. USA underestimates the world, likewise with the American citizens. They think the world is scared of them and that they are the best. Neither is true. I'm hoping for Lithuania, Spain and Argentina in the top 3 this year, hopefully in this order. Nobody wants to see the USA with medals, I hope they would get knocked out in the group stages, which is almost impossible, but then again, France didn't get out of their group in this years Euros. Never know what might happen.[/QUOTE]

It's always fun to hate on the teams that are on top isn't it? It's no different in any sport. People hate the Yankees, Red Sox, Patriots, Lakers, etc.

I've been saying all along that we haven't sent our best players. Not even close. No we didn't send our best players in 02, 04, and 06. Heck this years team still isn't the best players but it's better than what we've sent in the past. Euro teams get to practice together year round. Our team gets hardly any practice time. The Euro teams might lose one, maybe two people at worst. We are missing some major components. Lebron, Melo, and Wade weren't the faces of the NBA at the time. They were actually rookies trying to make a name for themselves. It seems to me that Argentina team that was so good was composed of a group of more veteran players that had been together a long time. Scola, Ginobli, Nocioni, Delfino, Hermann, and Oberto have all been effective NBA players. They were also the favorites to win. I would expect that group of players to beat some rookies who had a lot of learning to do. Besides it takes 5 to win not 3. Also, Argentina isn't in Europe and I don't think Italy would have beat the US in 04. The US team made up of rookies as their core players gave Argentina a much closer game than Italy did. The US did beat Lithuania in the bronze medal game and Lithuania is a good team and always has been, and also previously had beat the team. Wade, Lebron, and Melo's games have grown drastically since 04. I would expect a team whose core is a bunch of rookies and people with no experience in international play to lose a few games they shouldn't. We're going to be at a disadvantage with the rules. We don't play with those rules every day. Then throw in the fact they don't get to practice and sure it's going to make things more difficult.

The USA hasn't underestimated anybody. Sure the teams you mention are good. So is the US. Remember the team has changed again from 2007. Like I said before, only 6 of the players are from the 2006 team and only 8 are from 07. How many European teams have changed half of their roster?

Even with a team that lacks the greatest players in the NBA, having no practice, and different rules they are still one of the favorites. If they weren't you guys wouldn't be hating. You try to bring them down with words but in the end you have to admit they have a legit shot at winning the gold.... again.

By the way, here's a great article that came out today, since the draft is on Thursday. You might enjoy reading it.

[url]http://www.nj.com/knicks/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1214282133146950.xml&coll=1[/url]

The national teams of fiba europe don't practice year round. Team USA is weak at the post with only Howard, Bosh and Boozer, it would only take one of them getting hurt or in foul trouble to be a disaster.

That's what I said. I know they wanted to put together a team that could play small ball since the international game relies so much on outside shooting, but it doesn't make sense to me that the only real center they put on the team is Howard. I guess Bosh could slide over and play there too but he's more of a PF. I think they are actually going to have Anthony play C at times. Coach K said he thinks he will have Kidd, Kobe, and Wade in the back court at times.

[QUOTE=dd24]That's what I said. I know they wanted to put together a team that could play small ball since the international game relies so much on outside shooting, but it doesn't make sense to me that the only real center they put on the team is Howard. I guess Bosh could slide over and play there too but he's more of a PF. I think they are actually going to have Anthony play C at times. Coach K said he thinks he will have Kidd, Kobe, and Wade in the back court at times.[/QUOTE]

Greece destroyed them in the paint last WC's and now they insist with the same approach. Their bigs could be in foul trouble early in the games. Anthony at C? That has to be a mistake, maybe as PF but not at C.

Still, they have an impressive roster, let's see if they can play real team ball.

Right, but names alone don't win games, except for 1992. In the article, I do see what they mean, and I think, mostly it is the mental toughness. When I play or watch basketball, I like speed and a wide spread court. When Americans play, the coaches always want you to post up, back down, box out. The difference in the game begins in 7th-8th grade levels, with Europe and most of the world keeping speed and a wide game, while Americans decide to hit the weight room and overpower their opponents, plus the mindset is already there. Compare Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett. Both play the same position, are about the same height, but obviously play nothing like each other, mainly due to the place their from.
Like berraco says, Greece destroyed them in 2006, due to the lack of presence in the paint, something that was unexpected for the US back then. Now, they should have been ready. I don't see Greece as a threat this year, but other countries will be, mainly Spain with the Gasol brothers.

Exactly why I wish our best players would go. They still have a good shot though.

[QUOTE=simasu01]Right, but names alone don't win games, except for 1992. In the article, I do see what they mean, and I think, mostly it is the mental toughness. When I play or watch basketball, I like speed and a wide spread court. When Americans play, the coaches always want you to post up, back down, box out. The difference in the game begins in 7th-8th grade levels, with Europe and most of the world keeping speed and a wide game, while Americans decide to hit the weight room and overpower their opponents, plus the mindset is already there. Compare Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett. Both play the same position, are about the same height, but obviously play nothing like each other, mainly due to the place their from.
Like berraco says, Greece destroyed them in 2006, due to the lack of presence in the paint, something that was unexpected for the US back then. Now, they should have been ready. I don't see Greece as a threat this year, but other countries will be, mainly Spain with the Gasol brothers.[/QUOTE]

Even then Greece was not really a threat in the paint (Spain shown that) but they still managed it. That's the big point. Now they should have learn a lot from that, so I expect a better team. And a better team defense (I can't remember Greece scoring 100 points in years but they did it against the US!).

[QUOTE=dd24]Exactly why I wish our best players would go. They still have a good shot though.[/QUOTE]

Sure they have it. But now they have to demonstrate it.

I can see China trying to do ANYTHING possible to get themselves medals, bronze at least.

I hope China has better sportsmanship than Korea (the most corrupted big sport events host ever).

[QUOTE=kaiteng]I can see China trying to do ANYTHING possible to get themselves medals, bronze at least.

I hope China has better sportsmanship than Korea (the most corrupted big sport events host ever).[/QUOTE]

Not in basketball. If they win a medal there, the Olympics will be totally shut down as a sportive competition. Some other sports, maybe, where there are judges that have the complete power to decide who wins. But not in basketball. But I don't even think they will do.

[QUOTE=berraco]Not in basketball. If they win a medal there, the Olympics will be totally shut down as a sportive competition. Some other sports, maybe, where there are judges that have the complete power to decide who wins. But not in basketball. But I don't even think they will do.[/QUOTE]
I agree there are about 7 teams that are far better teams than china.
I hope Greece and Slovenia qualify.

[QUOTE=dd24] The Euro teams might lose one, maybe two people at worst.
Not true! Look at Serbia in the last eurobasket. Missing about 8 or more players.
Croatia were missing 3 or 4 important players too,Vujcic for example.Slovenia was also missing 3 or 4 players.

[QUOTE=la bomba][QUOTE=dd24] The Euro teams might lose one, maybe two people at worst.
Not true! Look at Serbia in the last eurobasket. Missing about 8 or more players.
Croatia were missing 3 or 4 important players too,Vujcic for example.Slovenia was also missing 3 or 4 players.[/QUOTE]

He needed to show a reason why the US lost. Lithuania is always missing Ilgauskas, and sometimes Macijauskas, plus a Lavrinovic brother this year. Same goes to the 3 countries above. Greece didn't have Schortsianitis. Really, there are important players missing everywhere, but they still prevail, except for Serbia, who played with probably the cockiest low achievers in their history, a total embarassment.

I already have. In my posts above I've named players and we've already discussed the whole sending NBA rookies thing. In 2004 we were missing more than 8.

All I want is a honest and gritty fight but team usa has to add another 7 footer immediately

[QUOTE=b.jerk]All I want is a honest and gritty fight but team usa has to add another 7 footer immediately[/QUOTE]
true,thats what we all want I suppose.I also agree with you that I believe USA are shooting themselves in the foot by not taking another big centre.doesn't even have to be great.

Agreed, I thought Brad Miller was adequate enough. Does anybody know why he didn't make the squad this year? A big guy who plays defense and can shoot outside and actually had a good year last year despite his age. Hmmm, seems like a no brainer to me. I'd really like to see some premier athletes step up. KG how about not being a complete jerk outside the court for once? Shaq, you're probably not going to win another championship, how about another medal? Duncan, how about going to an olympics where they put another 7' center on the team? I know it was tough on Duncan last time because he was the only one, but if there is more than one go!!!

Besides Spain with the Gasol brothers, what kind of size is the rest of Europe bringing to the games?

The US team could struggle with China because of Yao Ming and that post forward with the Nets and If the Greeks, Brazilians or the Litvaks qualify, team usa could struggle against them. It's a bad sign of either a defeatist attitude or incompetence.

[QUOTE=b.jerk]The US team could struggle with China because of Yao Ming and that post forward with the Nets and If the Greeks, Brazilians or the Litvaks qualify, team usa could struggle against them. It's a bad sign of either a defeatist attitude or incompetence.[/QUOTE]
maybe there is thought in the USA selection,maybe they think that the likes of shaq would not cope with defending the likes of bouroussis a 7ft centre who shoots the 3 real well.Or tsartsaris,ntikoudis, or other 4-5's that can shoot well.I don't know but maybe they wanted quicker more athletic defenders for these type of european inside players who actually dont play inside!However what they are maybe being shortsighted about is that in europe players are versatile and these shooting big men can actually play inside too.

[QUOTE=la bomba]maybe there is thought in the USA selection,maybe they think that the likes of shaq would not cope with defending the likes of bouroussis a 7ft centre who shoots the 3 real well.Or tsartsaris,ntikoudis, or other 4-5's that can shoot well.I don't know but maybe they wanted quicker more athletic defenders for these type of european inside players who actually dont play inside!However what they are maybe being shortsighted about is that in europe players are versatile and these shooting big men can actually play inside too.[/QUOTE]

That is the thought. They wanted quick athletic guys who could play the perimeter. They didn't completely forget about the inside game but certainly could have made it better. Sure with a guy like Shaq he wouldn't be able to be put in the game against the big men who play the perimeter. But a guy like KG could. I will say in the selection committee's defense, KG is a complete jerk off the court and just won't play. They did want him. Bosh is a legit big man who will end up playing center. He can match up with Pau while Dwight matches up with Marc. Dwight will also be able to match up with Yao while there are quite a few guys who can match up with Yi. Yao is a beast, but Yi still has some growing to do. He will be a very good power forward one day but not quite yet. China doesn't scare me too much anyhow. The problem is if any one of those guys got into foul trouble that could throw the whole game into a different perspective. What we saw in 04 was Duncan being the only big man and the refs calling some very questionable fouls against him making him sit the bench. That was a big part of the USA's losses. I guess it depends on what those countries have coming off their bench. I wish I could find rosters of all the countries who have qualified.

There are some big guys in the euroleague that are going to take it to hole and neither Chris Bosh or Dwight Howard are going to stop them. The game is shifting to europe and this is team USA's last best chance to win an international tournament and team usa maybe throwing it away because not enough big men.

Let's not make any over statements here. This is definately not the last chance for the US basketball team to win gold. They are going to bring right in the heat of things in 2012, 2016, etc. I will agree they didn't send their best big men. I'm the one who brought it up. There are also some good big men over seas. But if there was someone who is truly the greatest player in the world that is in the Euro league I can gaurantee there are teams in the NBA that would pay him more than twice what he makes over there after the exchange rate. It's a bit of an overstatement to say there are players in Europe that nobody in the world can stop. So there's a Michael Jordan in Europe that nobody in the world knows about?

Honestly, it really might be one of USA's best last chances to win something, maybe the 2010 World Championship, but there doesn't seem to be a next LeBron, Carmelo, Dwight Howard, so the so called "domination era" might end with them, because none of the drafts since 2004, besides Howard, produced anyone that's really good. I guess you could say Chris Paul and Deron Williams, but they are team players, and will need to pass the ball to someone. The 2006 draft is a total dissapointment, I think Rajon Rondo is the best player from that draft, and again, he's a point guard. Greg Oden is still a mystery, Kevin Durant is still too inconsistent and too weak for the international game. From the guys drafted yesterday, I won't comment because I haven't seen much of any of them, except for Gallinari, who is Italian. The 2012 Olympics, LeBron will be in his late 20's, same with Melo. The core of the group will still be there, meaning LeBron, Melo, Wade, Bosh, Howard, Paul. But they will also need other players, which they look pretty weak on right now, with European and South American teams looking much stronger every year.
There isn't anyone unstopable, but due to the team game in Europe, there will be unknown players to the US scoring points, a la Schortsianitis in 2006.

[QUOTE=dd24]Let's not make any over statements here. This is definately not the last chance for the US basketball team to win gold. They are going to bring right in the heat of things in 2012, 2016, etc. I will agree they didn't send their best big men. I'm the one who brought it up. There are also some good big men over seas. But if there was someone who is truly the greatest player in the world that is in the Euro league I can gaurantee there are teams in the NBA that would pay him more than twice what he makes over there after the exchange rate. It's a bit of an overstatement to say there are players in Europe that nobody in the world can stop. So there's a Michael Jordan in Europe that nobody in the world knows about?[/QUOTE]
Oscar Schmidt never went to the NBA,More recently Bodiroga,who for me was one of the best players in the world.Actually still active I would say Papaloukas and Smodiz are both great players that could play in any NBA team,they are no Michael Jordans but they are sure better than a lot of nba starters.As for team USA's chances?It will never be their last chance,they will always be favourites,I insist on that,their pool of players will always be larger than any other nation's.Even though I firmly believe that other nations have great teams that could beat USA,they are still the team to beat.

In 2012:

Lebron - 27 years old
Camello - 28 years old
Chris Paul - 27 years old
Deron Williams - 28 years old
Kobe Bryant - 34 years old
Dwight Howard 27 years old
Chris Bosh - 28 years old
Tayshaun Prince 32 years old
Dwayne Wade - 30 years old
Michael Redd - 34 years old

Everybody I've listed except for Redd, Bryant, and Prince would be able to play in 2016 if they wanted to. That's seven guys that could remain the same up until 2016. Do you really think we aren't going to have another 5 world class basketball players in the NBA in the next 8 years? Get real. Right now we have Greg Oden, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Rodney Stuckey, Andrew Bynum, Michael Beasley, LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Al Horford, and Joakim Noah all of which could be great players. That's just looking in the past couple years. Just on that list Bynum and Noah are legit centers. Durant will be an amazing player. He's tall, can create his own shot, and can shoot the lights out. He would tear up the international game. You have to remember the NBA game is more physical and is generally why Europeans don't make it in the NBA. The kid was 18 years old and put an NBA team on his back. There aren't too many people that have done that. Paul and Williams can both score and pass. I don't know why you would say different. Look at their teams stats. They were right at the top in scoring and obviously in the league for assists. They can create their own shots and penetrate as well. Did you forget the late 20's is when an athlete hits their prime?

Also as for the unknowns I don't believe there will be as many. The league now scouts Europe and the rest of the world much better than they did before. There have been so many draft busts they have been forced to. Does that mean that an unknown athlete can't step up and have 1 good game. No, but it will be more unlikely because the team will know every player on the roster. That factor which has helped Europe in the past isn't going to be such a help for them in the future.

This is team usa is the last best chance to win and team usa will never be as big as a favorite as they are for the next tournament

[QUOTE=b.jerk]This is team usa is the last best chance to win and team usa will never be as big as a favorite as they are for the next tournament[/QUOTE]

I need more of a reason than that. How can you explain a team that has some of the best athletes and coaches in the world isn't going to be one of the favorites. I just posted over half of the athletes that could be on the 2012 roster and even some up and coming players. That's all besides the fact that in the next 4 years there is going to be even more talent in the NBA. It would be impossible to not find 5 more very good players. Even if it isn't the best the NBA has to offer (like it has been the past 4 years) they are still going to be one of the favorites. I'm not saying they will be the #1 favorite above all but they will be in the discussion of favorites every olympic.

[QUOTE=la bomba]Oscar Schmidt never went to the NBA,More recently Bodiroga,who for me was one of the best players in the world.Actually still active I would say Papaloukas and Smodiz are both great players that could play in any NBA team,they are no Michael Jordans but they are sure better than a lot of nba starters.As for team USA's chances?It will never be their last chance,they will always be favourites,I insist on that,their pool of players will always be larger than any other nation's.Even though I firmly believe that other nations have great teams that could beat USA,they are still the team to beat.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. There are people over there who are talented and could be starters for most the teams in the NBA. Some of them might even be all-stars. But there isn't anybody in the world who could just score at will. There's only one person in the world who could go out and score 50 any night they want to and that is Kobe. Will he in the Olympics? Absolutely not. That isn't his role. He'll primarily be an outside shooter and a defensive stopper.

Team USA will always be one of the favorites in the near future but next tournament they won't be "the team" anymore. From the outside the american system is a wussier system than some of the european countries.

So even though the next team could be identical to the one this year with the exception of they will actually be better players then how can they be talked about as one of the favorite teams in 2008 and not 2012? Remember the core of the team will be in their prime in 2012. The system is irrelevant at that point. Same players, more experience, more knowledge, and in their prime and yet they are somehow going to go from the top to the bottom. There's still something missing here.

In the past euroleague competition couldn't prepare people for team usa but it's different now. The euroleague is getting better and better and in the future the better countries are going to see an elite level of competition throughout the season

[QUOTE=dd24]I agree with you. There are people over there who are talented and could be starters for most the teams in the NBA. Some of them might even be all-stars. But there isn't anybody in the world who could just score at will. There's only one person in the world who could go out and score 50 any night they want to and that is Kobe. Will he in the Olympics? Absolutely not. That isn't his role. He'll primarily be an outside shooter and a defensive stopper.[/QUOTE]
yes maybe now.But what I am saying is that it is not an exclusively nba thing,to get players who can score for fun.Oscar Schmidt ,even in the eyes of a lot of NBA commentators never played in the NBA and he could go out and score 50 points,60 if the team needed it!If not there are plenty of videos in youtube of him singlehandly destroying the US.Best scorer ever,full stop.

Oscar Schmidt was good but definately not the best scorer ever. The only US players he ever beat up on were college players. He definately could have came to the NBA, but his name would not be held with those of Jordan, Wilt, and Kobe among the greatest scorers of all time. The Nets actually took him with the 6th pick in the 84 draft but he didn't come to play in the NBA for a couple reasons. One was he didn't want to give up his title as an amateur so he could compete in the Olympics. The other was he didn't want to play only 10 minutes a game. He put up his numbers against amateur athletes. His great game against the US which was amateur players while he was an athlete in his prime.

He had his chance to play against the dream team in 1992. That was his chance to show he could compete with the best in the world. That is the best team that was ever assembled. If that team went today to the Olympics the results would be the same. The US beat Brazil 127-83. He had another chance in 96 but his team lost there too.

Also for those who don't like to see one person shoot the ball all the time and try to rip on someone like Kobe for shooting too much, Schmidt was really the only person on his team that ever shot the ball. Their game was to set screens and get Schmidt open so he could shoot the ball every time. I know he didn't have much of a team to play with, but think about that when you say things about Kobe. When he was shooting a lot he didn't have anybody else who could really score either.

Schmidt was good and without him we would never have this thread. He is the reason NBA players are playing in the Olympics and a big part of the world needing to play catch up in basketball as a result of that. The thing here is, he was from Brazil, which of course isn't in Europe. I thought we were talking about European players.

The best European player is Drazen Petrovic. He was quite possibly the best shooter in the NBA. Even Reggie Miller says the only player that could have had a better shot than him in his playing career was Petrovic. It seems like Petrovic scored 62 to Oscar's 44 at some point too.

I think Schmidt would have started in the NBA but he wouldn't have been an all-star.

It absolutely won't be the last chance for team USA, the country is too big for that, but what we are trying to say is that their chances will be smaller and smaller every year, especially with the progress of Spain, Lithuania, and Serbia, even though they haven't been much recently, they have Milan Macvan, and are always a strong basketball country. It looks like Latvia is growing up also, together with Greece's new generation. Also, after this championship, the Lithuanian core will retire from the national team, players like Jasikevicius and Songaila won't play anymore, possibly Kaukenas and the Lavrinovic brothers. A new generation of players are expected to compete in Poland's Eurobasket.

If we are saying the world is catching up I can agree with that.

About Schmid, we will never know what he Would have done in the NBA, but we know he Could have done, and that is be a really good player. Kobe gets ripped not only for being a selfish scorer, but also for his cockiness, his inability to win a thing without Shaq, except for MVP this season, which is basically worthless now, because a team won the championship, not Kobe, his mentality, which is me-first, team-second, and his rape trial, which was going to negatively change his reputation whatever way it ended. I know his life is under the microscope, but I don't think Oscar Schmidt would be anything like Kobe, except for making shots.

I don't really see anything cocky about Kobe. You have to be confident and he is definately that. Schmidt was the one who was me-first. He's the one that was quoted as saying some men can play the piano, some can only push it. I don't remember him ever making other players better. Like I said he played against the dream team and the team in 96 and the teams got killed. He didn't make anybody better then.

Kobe has made his teammates better. People think he is a ball hog because of one season where he was forced to shoot a lot. But you can see how efficient he was and how he made his teammates better even that year [url]http://www.82games.com/pelton13.htm[/url]

Throughout the Lakers runs of championships Kobe and Shaq nearly took the same amount of shots per game. Is Shaq a ball hog now too? The funny thing with Kobe is people think he wasn't a ball hog this year and think he shared the ball so well and got teammates involved. Which he did do this, but he still shot more than he did in 03 and 04 when people were saying he was a ball hog. It's too much media that gets into peoples heads.

We can make a case for Schmidt being the greatest amateur of all-time but certainly not the greatest scorer. Like I said before Petrovic was better in the Euroleagues and there are a number of NBA players that could score just as well. Really Kobe and MJ shouldn't even be in the conversation when comparing against Schmidt. They are in a league of their own. You need to play against the best to be the best.

[QUOTE=dd24]I don't really see anything cocky about Kobe. You have to be confident and he is definately that. Schmidt was the one who was me-first. He's the one that was quoted as saying some men can play the piano, some can only push it. I don't remember him ever making other players better. Like I said he played against the dream team and the team in 96 and the teams got killed. He didn't make anybody better then.

Kobe has made his teammates better. People think he is a ball hog because of one season where he was forced to shoot a lot. But you can see how efficient he was and how he made his teammates better even that year [url]http://www.82games.com/pelton13.htm[/url]

Throughout the Lakers runs of championships Kobe and Shaq nearly took the same amount of shots per game. Is Shaq a ball hog now too? The funny thing with Kobe is people think he wasn't a ball hog this year and think he shared the ball so well and got teammates involved. Which he did do this, but he still shot more than he did in 03 and 04 when people were saying he was a ball hog. It's too much media that gets into peoples heads.

We can make a case for Schmidt being the greatest amateur of all-time but certainly not the greatest scorer. Like I said before Petrovic was better in the Euroleagues and there are a number of NBA players that could score just as well. Really Kobe and MJ shouldn't even be in the conversation when comparing against Schmidt. They are in a league of their own. You need to play against the best to be the best.[/QUOTE]
First of all Schmidt was no ameteur!He was a professional player.He got paid very well in italy ,when the italian league was the best in europe.Yes he took a lot of shots but his percentages were higher than kobe's.Kobe shot as much as shaq?of coz,only shaq was two feet away from the basket most times dunking it,kobe was forcing a shot from 30ft!Kobe had 1 assist in his last nba finals game!! and endless misses and turnovers.he has teammates like odom,gasol,fisher etc who can score yet he takes 30 shots and berates his teammates for missing a shot!the guy is a **** I am sorry to say so but he is.Other players are confident and even cocky and you kind of accept it,but this guy is a prick and will never ever be considered in the same light as jordan,bird,magic etc etc
P.s. the euroleague didn't even exist when Petrovic played in europe.I know what you mean though.and yes Petrovic was the best player ever to come out of europe and a crying shame he departed this world in his prime when he was starting to set things alight in the NBA,after having been wasted by Portland(Rudy what have you done?)Perhaps Sabonis is on a par with petrovic as greatest ever,he went to the nba with his feet riddled with injury at age 31 yet triumphed and played 6 or 7 seasons with,,mm that same team.

Kobe's the best player in the world right now. It shouldn't even be a debate. Anybody who thinks less doesn't understand the game of basketball or is just one of those people who are jealous and likes to hate people that are great at what they do. People hated Jordan and now love him. People hate the Yankees in baseball, they now hate the Patriots in football, etc. I respect someone who is the best, even if they aren't on my team.