A Rookie 1984 Michael Jordan or a Current Kobe Bryant?

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Jordan at 22(Most of rookie year)

28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 stl, 51.5 FG, 17.3 3FG, 84.5 FT

Kobe at 22

28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 stl, 46.4 FG, 30.5 3FG, 85.3 FT, [B]All-NBA Defensive Second Team(First-Team year before)[/B]

Not to mention Jordan was in a faster paced, less defensive easier to score league.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand.I could of sworn Mj was droping 20 ppg at age 40 on ur so called better defensive league?Also u didn't put the FG%.Just because u are on the all team defense doesn't mean anything.Mj averged more stls and blks then kobe that year.He was a rookie and they didn't really know him has a defensive plyer yet, even tho he played defense.Look at 86-87.He was just has good has 88, but no reconition.Look at tmac in his orlano days.He played great one on one defense and got stls and blks no freaking mention on all defensive team.media doesn't now how to pick.Wat was the difference with 87 Mj and 88 Mj that gave him the DPOTY???Noting he was =n't known has a D player doesn't mean he wasn't.

[QUOTE=KenneBell]Meh, I bet Kobe would still get similar numbers or higher when by himself. It might have been a bit harder but Kobe could adapt. But we'll never know which is why threads like this are worthless...[/QUOTE]

Kobe still shoots a worse fg% than his team average and has done so the last 5 years. Jordan always shot better than his team average.

[QUOTE=juju151111]I don't understand.I could of sworn Mj was droping 20 ppg at age 40 on ur so called better defensive league?Also u didn't put the FG%.Just because u are on the all team defense doesn't mean anything.Mj averged more stls and blks then kobe that year.He was a rookie and they didn't really know him has a defensive plyer yet, even tho he played defense.Look at 86-87.He was just has good has 88, but no reconition.[B]Look at tmac in his orlano days.He played great one on one defense[/B] and got stls and blks no freaking mention on all defensive team.[B]media doesn't now how to pick.[/B]Wat was the difference with 87 Mj and 88 Mj that gave him the DPOTY???Noting he was =n't known has a D player doesn't mean he wasn't.[/QUOTE]

:roll: Coaches pick defensive teams ISHiot. Steals and blocks numbers dont= good defender. Ask LeBron yrs 1-3 or Bruce Bowen.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]:roll: Coaches pick defensive teams ISHiot. Steals and blocks numbers dont= good defender. Ask LeBron yrs 1-3 or Bruce Bowen.[/QUOTE]
ok watever coaches.hmmm thats the reason i said great one on one defender.stls and blks are a plus with the defense.off the top of my head i think there are only 4 sg/sf who put up 100plus stls and 100plus blks and mj did it twice.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Oh yeah...and Kobe was operating in the triangle, not freelancing like MJ.[/QUOTE]

Kobe didn't play team basketball until the second half of 2000-2001(it's no coincidence the Lakers didn't play championship level basketball until the second half). For a big chunk of the 2000-2001 season Kobe was jacking up shots trying to be the first option which is probably why they went 11-3 when Kobe was out of the lineup.

So don't act like Kobe wasn't playing freely and he was playing perfect team basketball that entire season. That's why Shaq made that quote about how if the big dog wasn't him the house wouldn't get guarded.

Anyway as for the OP current Kobe is clearly better than rookie Jordan but I think Jordan from his 3rd season until 1998 was much better than Kobe ever was.

[QUOTE=VCMVP1551]Kobe didn't play team basketball until the second half of 2000-2001(it's no coincidence the Lakers didn't play championship level basketball until the second half). For a big chunk of the 2000-2001 season Kobe was jacking up shots trying to be the first option which is probably why they went 11-3 when Kobe was out of the lineup.

So don't act like Kobe wasn't playing freely and he was playing perfect team basketball that entire season. That's why Shaq made that quote about how if the big dog wasn't him the house wouldn't get guarded.

Anyway as for the OP current Kobe is clearly better than rookie Jordan but I think Jordan from his 3rd season until 1998 was much better than Kobe ever was.[/QUOTE]

Ya...his numbers were EVEN BETTER for the first half or so of the season before he started deferring. ISHiot.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Ya...his numbers were EVEN BETTER for the first half or so of the season before he started deferring. ISHiot.[/QUOTE]

But the W-L record wasn't you f*cking moron. What good is better numbers if the W-L record is worse? He should have been a deferring the whole time considering Shaq was the teams clear best player. It's no coincidence that the teams winning % was better without Kobe(.786) than with Kobe(.662)

current bryant is easily better than '85 jordan, as was '07 bryant, '06 bryant, '04 bryant, '03 bryant, '02 bryant, '01 bryant, and '00 bryant.

peak bryant ('03) wasn't better than '88 jordan, '89 jordan, '90 jordan, '91 jordan, '92 jordan, '93 jordan, '96 jordan, or '97 jordan.

[QUOTE=gencbiba]Kobe over that young Jordan simply because he was too selfish in his earlier age. Not to say he wasn't selfish in his old age, but he did sort of get better. Kobe really has evolved the past 3 years.[/QUOTE]

This is great comedy.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Ya...his numbers were EVEN BETTER for the first half or so of the season before he started deferring. ISHiot.[/QUOTE]
good job skipping my post.Ohh well i still proved MJ rookie season was just has good has this kobe season.

[QUOTE=gencbiba]Kobe over that young Jordan simply because he was too selfish in his earlier age. Not to say he wasn't selfish in his old age, but he did sort of get better. Kobe really has evolved the past 3 years.[/QUOTE]



Wow..

It amazes just how [B]UNINFORMED[/B] U kobe homers [B]REALLY[/B] are when it comes to making these ABSURD comparisons to MJ. Half of U guys didn't even see MJ before the 1st titles & the other half of U guys, [B]BARELY[/B] saw him from 1996-98..and those [B]WEREN'T[/B] even his [B]PRIME[/B] years!

It's the [B]SAME[/B] 'ol story with U guys..Y'all try & rank & compare them based on your [B]UNINFORMED[/B] opinions, rather than what they've actually [B]DONE[/B] on the floor..

MJ's [B]"ROOKIE"[/B] season he had an [B]NBA Efficiency Rating (PER)[/B] of [B]29.24[/B], & [B]13.2[/B] [I][U]player wins[/U][/I]. He also [B]IMPROVED[/B] them by 10 wins & took 'em to the Playoffs, a place they hadn't [B]SEEN[/B] since 1981..

Kobe's 2006-07 season, he had an [B]NBA Efficiency Rating (PER)[/B] of [B]27.65[/B] and [B]11.2[/B] [I][U]player wins[/U][/I].

Well homers, how do U explain that? And U claim kobe's better?

[B]THAT'S A JOKE!![/B]

In the seasons [B]BEFORE[/B] Pippen & Co., he had a [I][U]combined[/U][/I] average of [B]33ppg 5apg 6rpg 2.74spg 1.26bpg 49 FG%.[/B]

Show me [U][B]ANY[/B][/U] season from kobe with better [B][U]OVERALL[/U][/B] Production than that?

MJ is the [B]ONLY[/B] player in [B]HISTORY[/B] to lead his team in [I][B]scoring, rebounding, assists & steals[/B][/I]..(4 out of 5 categories) & he did this as a [B]ROOKIE!![/B] Dr. J did it in the ABA, but never in the NBA. MJ was 4 blocks away from repeating this feat in 1989.

Ever see kobe do anything [B]REMOTELY[/B] close to that? Hell no & if U claim he has, you're a liar & the truth aint in ya..

And U got the [B]NERVE[/B] to call MJ [I]"selfish"[/I]? Are U serious?

Kobe has [B][I][U]53 games[/U][/I][/B] to date, with [B]NO ASSISTS![/B] MJ has only [B][I]"6" in 14 years of play[/I][/B], with the [B]1st[/B] game like occuring in 1997..that's [B]13 STRAIGHT years with at least "1" assist![/B]

What's kobe's excuse?

U kobe homers need to stop deluding yourselves & get real. Get off your false paradise of eden that's perched on the banks of [B][I]'Denial'[/I][/B] & snap back into reality..

[QUOTE=StoneCold]Wow..

It amazes just how [B]UNINFORMED[/B] U kobe homers [B]REALLY[/B] are when it comes to making these ABSURD comparisons to MJ. Half of U guys didn't even see MJ before the 1st titles & the other half of U guys, [B]BARELY[/B] saw him from 1996-98..and those [B]WEREN'T[/B] even his [B]PRIME[/B] years!

It's the [B]SAME[/B] 'ol story with U guys..Y'all try & rank & compare them based on your [B]UNINFORMED[/B] opinions, rather than what they've actually [B]DONE[/B] on the floor..

MJ's [B]"ROOKIE"[/B] season he had an [B]NBA Efficiency Rating (PER)[/B] of [B]29.24[/B], & [B]13.2[/B] [I][U]player wins[/U][/I]. He also [B]IMPROVED[/B] them by 10 wins & took 'em to the Playoffs, a place they hadn't [B]SEEN[/B] since 1981..

Kobe's 2006-07 season, he had an [B]NBA Efficiency Rating (PER)[/B] of [B]27.65[/B] and [B]11.2[/B] [I][U]player wins[/U][/I].

Well homers, how do U explain that? And U claim kobe's better?

[B]THAT'S A JOKE!![/B]

In the seasons [B]BEFORE[/B] Pippen & Co., he had a combined average of [B]33ppg 5apg 6rpg 2.74spg 1.26bpg 49 FG%.[/B]

Show me [U][B]ANY[/B][/U] season from kobe with better [B][U]OVERALL[/U][/B] Production than that?

MJ is the [B]ONLY[/B] player in [B]HISTORY[/B] to lead his team in [I][B]scoring, rebounding, assists & steals[/B][/I]..(4 out of 5 categories) & he did this as a [B]ROOKIE!![/B] Dr. J did it in the ABA, but never in the NBA. MJ was 4 blocks away from repeating this feat in 1989.

Ever see kobe do anything [B]REMOTELY[/B] close to that? Hell no & if U claim he has, you're a liar & the truth aint in ya..

And U got the [B]NERVE[/B] to call MJ [I]"selfish"[/I]? Are U serious?

Kobe has [B][I][U]53 games[/U][/I][/B] to date, with [B]NO ASSISTS![/B] MJ has only [B][I]"6" in 14 years of play[/I][/B], with the [B]1st[/B] game like occuring in 1997..that's [B]13 STRAIGHT years with at least "1" assist![/B]

What's kobe's excuse?

U kobe homers need to stop deluding yourselves & get real. Get off your false paradise of eden that's perched on the banks of [B][I]'Denial'[/I][/B] & snap back into reality..[/QUOTE]

Hahaha, you're popping veins out there! :oldlol:
Grow up, we're not discussing the value of the human life. We're talking f*cking basketball.

Oh, and btw, not having assists doesn't mean one wasn't passing, it just means the player did not have a pass from which the receiver scored. Just that, nothing more and nothing less. That's why in my opinion, the assist, as a standalone stat, is very very overrated.

[QUOTE=StoneCold]Wow..

It amazes just how [B]UNINFORMED[/B] U kobe homers [B]REALLY[/B] are when it comes to making these ABSURD comparisons to MJ. Half of U guys didn't even see MJ before the 1st titles & the other half of U guys, [B]BARELY[/B] saw him from 1996-98..and those [B]WEREN'T[/B] even his [B]PRIME[/B] years!

It's the [B]SAME[/B] 'ol story with U guys..Y'all try & rank & compare them based on your [B]UNINFORMED[/B] opinions, rather than what they've actually [B]DONE[/B] on the floor..

MJ's [B]"ROOKIE"[/B] season he had an [B]NBA Efficiency Rating (PER)[/B] of [B]29.24[/B], & [B]13.2[/B] [I][U]player wins[/U][/I]. He also [B]IMPROVED[/B] them by 10 wins & took 'em to the Playoffs, a place they hadn't [B]SEEN[/B] since 1981..

Kobe's 2006-07 season, he had an [B]NBA Efficiency Rating (PER)[/B] of [B]27.65[/B] and [B]11.2[/B] [I][U]player wins[/U][/I].

Well homers, how do U explain that? And U claim kobe's better?

[B]THAT'S A JOKE!![/B]

In the seasons [B]BEFORE[/B] Pippen & Co., he had a combined average of [B]33ppg 5apg 6rpg 2.74spg 1.26bpg 49 FG%.[/B]

Show me [U][B]ANY[/B][/U] season from kobe with better [B][U]OVERALL[/U][/B] Production than that?

MJ is the [B]ONLY[/B] player in [B]HISTORY[/B] to lead his team in [I][B]scoring, rebounding, assists & steals[/B][/I]..(4 out of 5 categories) & he did this as a [B]ROOKIE!![/B] Dr. J did it in the ABA, but never in the NBA. MJ was 4 blocks away from repeating this feat in 1989.

Ever see kobe do anything [B]REMOTELY[/B] close to that? Hell no & if U claim he has, you're a liar & the truth aint in ya..

And U got the [B]NERVE[/B] to call MJ [I]"selfish"[/I]? Are U serious?

Kobe has [B][I][U]53 games[/U][/I][/B] to date, with [B]NO ASSISTS![/B] MJ has only [B][I]"6" in 14 years of play[/I][/B], with the [B]1st[/B] game like occuring in 1997..that's [B]13 STRAIGHT years with at least "1" assist![/B]

What's kobe's excuse?

U kobe homers need to stop deluding yourselves & get real. Get off your false paradise of eden that's perched on the banks of [B][I]'Denial'[/I][/B] & snap back into reality..[/QUOTE]

Aren't you the clown who was exposed for plagiarizing from another site? :lol

Kobe's best & true shooting % for a season, from a [B][I]EFG% standpoint[/I][/B], was last year at [I][B].580%.[/B][/I]

MJ had [B]6[/B] seasons [B][I]BETTER[/I][/B] than that, one of which included..U guessed it, his [B][I][U]ROOKIE YEAR[/U][/I][/B], that topped out at a jaw dropping [B][I].614%!![/I][/B]

It's pointless kobe homers, he's not comparable or better than MJ.

That [B][I][U]FACTS[/U][/I][/B] will [B]ALWAYS[/B] prove U guys wrong in this comparison...

its really funny to see how petty the kobe fans get when someone posts a whole bunch of facts that show mj's superiority. rather than adress the facts they try to take the piss and discredit the guy who has done nothing more than post simple facts.

[QUOTE=Poseidon]Aren't you the clown who was exposed for plagiarizing from another site? :lol[/QUOTE]

No, Those [B][I][U]ARE[/U][/I][/B] my Posts...

[I]How can I plagiarize myself?[/I]

As I stated the last time U tried to say that, take a look at my bio on YouTube.. ([url]www.youtube.com/user/blackadam06[/url])

I [B][I][U]AM[/U][/I][/B] [I][B]StoneCold[/B][/I]..[I][B]Blackadam06 & RealFan357..[/B][/I]

If you'd bothered to pay attention, You'd notice I [B][I]CLEARLY[/I][/B] state my other Aliases on my page...

I don't believe anyone was truly degrading Jordan's superiority. I think it's just that many MJ (and Kobe) groupies and ******gers debate Jordan and Kobe like it's life and death! That is what pisses me off, really. It's definitely not worth a fight, and not worth raising your blood pressure.

[QUOTE=ukplayer4]its really funny to see how petty the kobe fans get when someone posts a whole bunch of facts that show mj's superiority. rather than adress the facts they try to take the piss and discredit the guy who has done nothing more than post simple facts.[/QUOTE]

Exactly..

This is what U tend to get from them regarding this topic:

[B]A) when confronted with the [U]FACTS[/U], they just [U]KEEP[/U] denying them, as if that "CHANGES" 'em.
B) They try & justify their opinions [U]"WITH"[/U] opinions.
C) Lash out in petulant temper tantrums when they can't refute the opposing argument.
D) Insist the [U]FACTS[/U] don't really mean what they say
E) Rank kobe & MJ based on their opinions, rather than what they've ACTUALLY Done & CONSISTENTLY DO/DID
F) Insist the other guy is "Hating" for stating [U]FACTS[/U][/B]

I see it [B][I][U]ALL THE TIME[/U][/I][/B] from them.

I love to discuss a wide range of sports topic on spots such as this one, but talkin' hoops with them is next to impossible.

There's simply [B]TOO MANY[/B] young & uninformed kobe fans who no next to nothing about NBA history & players prior to the 2000 season & the Lakers. If U leave it to them to tell it, he's the Greatest at [B]EVERYTHING[/B] & when U ask them to explain, they offer up a bunch of [B]opinions, if's & coulda-shoulda-wouldas..[/B]

Confront them with [B]FACTS[/B] & watch the fireworks commence. LOL!! Then whatever U guys were discussing regarding him, becomes [B]"overrated"[/B] & not important, but he was the [I]"best"[/I] at it prior to them getting blindsided by the [B]FACTS[/B] of the matter..

It's the reason they're without a doubt, the most [I][B]DESPISED[/B][/I] group of fans on any sports board, blog, etc..U can visit on the internet..

Michael Jordan will always be better than Kobe Bryant.

/end Thread

As much as I love Michael Jordan and absolutely like a religion believe MJ in his prime and his career is always better than Kobe Bryants prime or career, in this specific case how can you choose a rookie Michael Jordan.

There are simply too many intangibles in this league that you can only learn with experience. As an offensive and athletic freak Michael Jordan as a rookie is better because he will always be better in this category in retrospect of his entire career. But when you just look at his rookie season, the experience of Kobe Bryant, knowing how to best use his teammates to the best outcome, and the fact that he is in the prime of his career, is simply the better choice if I was to choose between the two to lead my team for "said" year.

However, since I am fairly new, let me make it perfectly clear that Michael Jordan is, will, and forever will be the best player to ever play the game on all levels both on and off the court. I would trade all my monetary money (well maybe thats a stretch) just to see his prime play again in this current crybaby, flopping, weak call league and prove all nay-sayers wrong who say that he wouldn dominate just as he did in the late 80's and 90's.

... sorry got a lil carried away there. I usually do when talking about MJ.

kobe will never be mj

[QUOTE=Shep]current bryant is easily better than '85 jordan, as was '07 bryant, '06 bryant, '04 bryant, '03 bryant, '02 bryant, '01 bryant, and '00 bryant.

peak bryant ('03) wasn't better than '88 jordan, '89 jordan, '90 jordan, '91 jordan, '92 jordan, '93 jordan, '96 jordan, or '97 jordan.[/QUOTE]

04' Bryant? He shot under 43.8% and averaged 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg. I know part of the drop in his numbers was because of Malone and Payton but still his shooting % was too low.

As far as 00' Kobe being better than 85' Jordan....not even close. 01' is debatable too.

Other than those 3 points I actually agree with you for once.

[QUOTE=VCMVP1551]But the W-L record wasn't you f*cking moron. What good is better numbers if the W-L record is worse? He should have been a deferring the whole time considering Shaq was the teams clear best player. It's no coincidence that the teams winning % was better without Kobe(.786) than with Kobe(.662)[/QUOTE]

Ya, that's why Kobe was our best player in the Kings and Spurs series by TAKING over against our two biggest threats that year. Sure LA was better without him. Keep it up ISHiot:oldlol:

all i know is at age 40 mj still managed to get 20 ppg ... [B]AT AGE 40[/B]....
MJ will be the greatest player ever to play this game.....

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Ya, that's why Kobe was our best player in the Kings and Spurs series by TAKING over against our two biggest threats that year. Sure LA was better without him. Keep it up ISHiot:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Taking over when Shaq was doubled and tripled every other f*cking play.

There is a reason why Shaq was the leading scorer on a 15-1 playoff team.

Lets see Kobe do that.

The numbers don't lie. 11-3 record without Kobe in 2000-2001.

You know what the Lakers record was in the 31 games that Kobe missed and Shaq played during the 3peat?
25-6.

What's your response for that?

Kobe missed 32 games, not 31:roll: Shaq himself called KOBE the best player in the league during the 01 playoffs. Second, those teams were built around Shaq, of course they were going to do well as long as he was in there:rolleyes: Keep telling us inaccurate heights, ISHiot:oldlol:

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Kobe missed 32 games, not 31:roll:[/QUOTE]

I said games that Kobe missed and Shaq played. Shaq missed one of those 32 games f*cking retard.

You can't even f*cking read. :oldlol:

[QUOTE]Shaq himself called KOBE the best player in the league during the 01 playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Shaq has also said KG can't play defense. You can't take what Shaq says seriously.

[QUOTE]Second, those teams were built around Shaq, of course they were going to do well as long as he was in there:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

If the teams were built around Shaq then Kobe shouldn't have been trying to be the first option. :roll:

[QUOTE]Keep telling us inaccurate heights, ISHiot:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

You've said ISHiot atleast 5 times in this thread. Come up with a new insult.

As for "inaccurate" heights, pre-draft measurements and players own claims are pretty damn accurate.

[QUOTE=VCMVP1551]Taking over when Shaq was doubled and tripled every other f*cking play.

There is a reason why Shaq was the leading scorer on a 15-1 playoff team.

Lets see Kobe do that.

The numbers don't lie. 11-3 record without Kobe in 2000-2001.

You know what the Lakers record was in the 31 games that Kobe missed and Shaq played during the 3peat?
25-6.

What's your response for that?[/QUOTE]

Actually, it was Kobe who led that team in scoring until I think the last game in the finals.
Basically, Kobe was leading them firmly in scoring until the finals when Shaq exploded for like 38 ppg or something and Kobe was at 26.
Either way, it's not like it's a big difference, I think Shaq in the end was at 30 and Kobe at 29 ppg.

What bugs us, Kobe fans there is that he is the only guy ever to average 29-7-6 in the playoffs and then get labeled as a second option. It's just wrong. Usually, by second option you consider a guy to be a second option caliber player. Like Parker.
I mean, at least say then that Kobe was the top 3 player which he obviously was that year and a first option playing a 2nd option. It's more politically correct lol.

[QUOTE=Emile]

What bugs us, Kobe fans there is that he is the only guy ever to average 29-7-6 in the playoffs and then get labeled as a second option. It's just wrong. Usually, by second option you consider a guy to be a second option caliber player. Like Parker.
I mean, at least say then that Kobe was the top 3 player which he obviously was that year and a first option playing a 2nd option. It's more politically correct lol.[/QUOTE]

Kobe is definitely not the only guy to ever do that. Jordan, Oscar, Lebron, and T-mac have all done that. But I really don't see how thats wrong, when its true. Shaq was just a monster during those years, and clearly the most important player to that team. But people do have to look into it with more detail then just he was a 2nd option, cause he was a better 2nd option then most.

[QUOTE=guy]Kobe is definitely not the only guy to ever do that. Jordan, Oscar, Lebron, and T-mac have all done that.[/quote]

Yeah, but he meant the only player to do that AND get labeled a second option (which he was). I understand his point, and I believe that Kobe was one of the 2-3 best second options of all time during those years, but it doesn't change the fact that he WAS the second option and, more importantly, he was not as vital to that team's success as Shaq. It wasn't 75%/25% or anything (except maybe in 2000), but it was at least 55/45 (2002/2003) or 60/40 (2001/2002) Shaq.

Current Kobe, physically bigger/stronger than a rookie MJ. And I'm assuming its in todays game as well.

[QUOTE=guy]Shaq was just a monster during those years, and clearly the most important player to that team. But people do have to look into it with more detail then just he was a 2nd option, cause he was a better 2nd option then most.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. As good as Kobe was he was the second optiond espite being a top 5 player in the league. he just happened to be playing on a team with the best player in the league.

another jordan and kobe comparision:rolleyes: kobe could never fit in jordans jock strap. he will never be like mike. MJ is the best SG to ever play this game. kobe is a ballhog.

[QUOTE]04' Bryant? He shot under 43.8% and averaged 24 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg. I know part of the drop in his numbers was because of Malone and Payton but still his shooting % was too low.[/QUOTE]
'04. not 04'. i've told you about this. its '04. the "'" comes before the abbreviated year. yes, kobe shot the ball worse, but he was a much more mature player, and a much better defender than the rookie michael jordan. the pace of the game in '85 was also alot quicker than the '04 pace aswell. bryant also shot free throws better, and actually had a game outside 15 ft. its close, but bryant wins.
[QUOTE]As far as 00' Kobe being better than 85' Jordan....not even close. 01' is debatable too.[/QUOTE]
both years bryant was clearly the better player.

Yeah the game had a faster pace but the defense was also much tougher.

1985 Michael Jordan- 28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 spg, 51.5 FG%, 84.5 FT%, 82 games
2004 Kobe Bryant 24.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.7 spg, 43.8 FG%, 85.2 FT%, 65 games
2000 Kobe Bryant 22.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.6 spg 46.8 FG%, 82.1 FT%, 66 games
2001 Kobe Bryant 28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 46.9 FG%, 85.3 FT%, 68 games

Jordan played in all 82 games in the 1985 season, rebounded better and average more assists than Kobe in any of those years. He got more steals and shot a much better %. He also scored far more than Kobe did in 2000 or 2004.

Jordan also had to lead his team. Kobe was not the best player on his team in any of those years and he missed an 14 games in 2001, 16 games in 2000 and 17 games in 2004.

As for Jordan not having a game past 15 feet well Jordan came into the league already with an 18-20 foot jumper. Back in the early to mid 80's not many people had a game past the 3 point line which is why Isiah Thomas once finished second in 3P% despite shooting under 30%.

[QUOTE]Yeah the game had a faster pace but the defense was also much tougher.[/QUOTE]
no it wasn't. there was only 2 or 3 good defensive teams in the league in '85. pace was high, and with this comes increased statistics - part of the reason for jordan's numbers being higher than bryant's. teams averaged 111 ppg on 89 fga per game and shot the ball 49% from the field, with detroit leading the league with an almost inconceivable 98 fga per game, and denver averaging 120ppg. 19 years later teams averaged 93 ppg on 80 fga per game and shot the ball 44% from the field.
[QUOTE]1985 Michael Jordan- 28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 spg, 51.5 FG%, 84.5 FT%, 82 games
2004 Kobe Bryant 24.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.1 apg, 1.7 spg, 43.8 FG%, 85.2 FT%, 65 games
2000 Kobe Bryant 22.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.6 spg 46.8 FG%, 82.1 FT%, 66 games
2001 Kobe Bryant 28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 spg, 46.9 FG%, 85.3 FT%, 68 games[/QUOTE]
:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE]Jordan played in all 82 games in the 1985 season, rebounded better and average more assists than Kobe in any of those years. He got more steals and shot a much better %. He also scored far more than Kobe did in 2000 or 2004.[/QUOTE]
games played doesn't come into discussion. are we talking about who was the better player or who had the better season? factor in pace and kobe narrows the gap in all statistical area's where he trailed mj..and sometimes he beats him. as for fg% kobe shot the ball equal to or better than the league average every year, mj was only 2% better than the league average in '85..so it wasn't a "much better %" when you think about it.
once again kobe was a far better defender than mj was at this point, including 1st team all-defense in '00, '03, and '04, and 2nd team all-defense in '01, and '02. kobe was also part of hugely successful teams, and for the years you are arguing against him he was a top 6 player in the nba each year. jordan led his team to a pitiful 38-44 record.
[QUOTE]Jordan also had to lead his team.[/QUOTE]
this means you have the ball in your hands at all times. you don't have to share the ball, and you can do what you want, when you want with the ball..especially because your team is going nowhere.
[QUOTE]As for Jordan not having a game past 15 feet well Jordan came into the league already with an 18-20 foot jumper. Back in the early to mid 80's not many people had a game past the 3 point line which is why Isiah Thomas once finished second in 3P% despite shooting under 30%.[/QUOTE]
jordan shot the three ball at 17% in his rookie year..made 9 shots in 82 games, 3144 minutes. a three pointer was made by michael jordan every 349 minutes of actual court time, or every 9 games. he couldn't shoot. its a fact. most of his baskets came from isolation plays where he took his man off the dribble

[QUOTE=Shep]no it wasn't. there was only 2 or 3 good defensive teams in the league in '85. pace was high, and with this comes increased statistics - part of the reason for jordan's numbers being higher than bryant's. teams averaged 111 ppg on 89 fga per game and shot the ball 49% from the field, with detroit leading the league with an almost inconceivable 98 fga per game, and denver averaging 120ppg. 19 years later teams averaged 93 ppg on 80 fga per game and shot the ball 44% from the field.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but Jordan's rookie year was not in the superstar protected era Kobe played in. The game was far more physical in the 80's too.

[QUOTE]:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

That just shows Jordan had clearly better numbers so when one playr has clearly better numbers the other usually isn't clearly better.

[QUOTE]games played doesn't come into discussion. are we talking about who was the better player or who had the better season? factor in pace and kobe narrows the gap in all statistical area's where he trailed mj..and sometimes he beats him. as for fg% kobe shot the ball equal to or better than the league average every year, mj was only 2% better than the league average in '85..so it wasn't a "much better %" when you think about it.
once again kobe was a far better defender than mj was at this point, including 1st team all-defense in '00, '03, and '04, and 2nd team all-defense in '01, and '02. kobe was also part of hugely successful teams, and for the years you are arguing against him he was a top 6 player in the nba each year. jordan led his team to a pitiful 38-44 record.[/QUOTE]

I can't see Kobe being a top 6 player in 2000. I don't consider him top 10 that year but I could see him top 5 in 2001 and 2004.

As for Jordan's record well look at his supporting cast and then consider Kobe was playing with the best player in the league.

[QUOTE]this means you have the ball in your hands at all times. you don't have to share the ball, and you can do what you want, when you want with the ball..especially because your team is going nowhere.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but because you are the first option the entire team is aiming to stop you. Kobe played with the best player in the league so he had a far easier time getting shots because the defense couldn't aim to stop him as much as they could with Jordan. That's why Kobe shot a better % when Shaq was on the team than he did after Shaq left. That is significant because Kobe has been better in the post Shaq era.

[QUOTE]jordan shot the three ball at 17% in his rookie year..made 9 shots in 82 games, 3144 minutes. a three pointer was made by michael jordan every 349 minutes of actual court time, or every 9 games. he couldn't shoot. its a fact. most of his baskets came from isolation plays where he took his man off the dribble[/QUOTE]

And your point is? a 3 point shot is 23,9 not 18-20 feet.

How pathetic is is when you have to compare a rookie with an 11-year vet to receive a favorable response?

MJ >>>> Kobe. Give this topic a rest!

[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]How pathetic is is when you have to compare a rookie with an 11-year vet to receive a favorable response?[/QUOTE]


Actually, this is kobe's [B]12th year[/B] & you're [I][B]ABSOLUTELY[/B][/I] right!!

And I've already [B]PROVEN[/B] that [B][I][U]OVERALL[/U][/I][/B], MJ's [B][I]ROOKIE[/I][/B] season [B][I][U]TROUNCES[/U][/I][/B] any season kobe has [B][I]EVER[/I][/B] had in a previous post on this thread..

If U have to compare a [B]ROOKIE[/B] or [B]Wizard's[/B] MJ to Kobe to get a favorable comparison, that [I][B]IN ITSELF[/B][/I], not only highlights how [B][U][I]TRULY[/I][/U][/B] desperate kobe fans are to find a way around the [B]FACTS[/B] regarding this absurd comparison, but it really shows their [B][I][U]DESPERATION[/U][/I][/B] in trying to prove kobe is #1 [B][I]ALL TIME[/I][/B] or at least in the running for that honor, but they keep getting [B][I][U]BLINDSIDED[/U][/I][/B] by a little something called [I][B][U]FACTS[/U][/B][/I], that'll continue to blow their silly & [B][I]UNINFORMED[/I][/B] argument, which is nothing more than their [I][B]"opinions"[/B][/I] to begin with, out of the water [B][I][U]EVERYTIME[/U][/I][/B] & [I][U][B]PROVE[/B][/U][/I] them [B]WRONG[/B] in the process..

Hey kobe homers, ask yourselves this question: If kobe's the better player, "[B]WHY"[/B] do U have to [B][U]CONSTANTLY[/U][/B] use MJ as the measuring stick to determine [B]"HOW"[/B] good kobe is & [B]"WHERE"[/B] he ranks in the Pantheon of Guards?

That [B][U]OUGHT[/U][/B] to tell U something is wrong about your claims regarding him being so much better than MJ!! If he truly were better, in 12 yrears of play, his offensive & defensive resume would've been [B][U]FAR[/U][/B] beyond anything MJ [B][U]EVER[/U][/B] did! But it's not!

In [B]FACT[/B], the changes to the Defensive Rules is what has [B][U]ALLOWED[/U][/B] kobe to even be included in this argument..

[B][U]Kobe Bryant in years that handchecking was allowed:[/U][/B]
561 games - 21.77 ppg on 42% shooting

[B][U]Kobe Bryant in the final 3 years handchecking was allowed (2001-04)[/U][/B]
227 games - 24.29ppg on 43% shooting

[B][U]Kobe Bryant

LOL @ 00 Kobe being better then rookie Jordan.