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There's more music than you could ever listen to in a lifetime that fits your bill. You just have to look for it. Plenty of [I]musicians[/I] making records out there.
I'm just saying you can't judge technical mastery from a hip hop record. Well, unless you're a drummer I guess.
lol hey you don't have to tell me about other music than the mainstream pop, I got hundreds of records and CDs from every genre with recordings spanning 90 years, and I've been an amateur musician for 20 years. I've heard a lot of music in my time, and I'm always looking for more, I just want some of these artists who have the global spotlight to use it to really reach out and slap some sense and imagination into the huddled masses. Hell at this point I don't even care if it doesn't work, I just want someone to go down in flames trying.
outkast said on BET the album really isnt a soundtrack.. there isnt any music they actually use in the movie featured on the album..
OK, understood but they didn't get into the global spotlight with any instrument mastery they may or may not have. And they're are lots of pop artists that try to switch it up, and guess what, they go bye-bye. No one will buy it, and no label will promote.
see that seems like fun to me, but I've always been a bit of a masochist, so probably not a great example
[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]You being a musician for only 9 years does not qualify you. [/quote]I've been a [i]professional[/i] musician for 9 years - been playing instruments for 20 years. I was offered full college scholarships on more than one instrument. I'm almost done with my doctorate in music. Point is, I can tell whether or not somebody can play an instrument at a professional level.
[quote]It's not an inference you can make.[/quote]No, it's not an inference [i]you[/i] can make.
[quote]If you were such a great musician you would realize that pop music is driven by simplicity and clever hooks. Not how well you can shred on a guitar or drop some Liszt on the keyboard.[/quote]In this thread, I've stated that A: Andre3000 cannot play any instruments at a professional level, and B: I like Andre3000 lot and have all of his albums. How can you read statements A and B, and then come away from it thinking that I believe pop music is based on guitar shredding and virtuoso piano?
Why do you believe that just because [i]you[/i] aren't qualified to make a certain judgement that nobody else alive is either?
It mystifies me why people continue to get into arguments about music with adamcz. you will lose everytime.
HE KNOWS MORE THAN YOU. ok??
You tell 'em GeeWiz!
And before anybody tries to basterdize what I'm saying, I think Andre3000 is a better musician than I am. There aren't many rappers that I would say that about, but he's one of them. He just doesn't happen to play any instruments really well.
[QUOTE=geeWiz15]It mystifies me why people continue to get into arguments about music with adamcz. you will lose everytime.
HE KNOWS MORE THAN YOU. ok??[/QUOTE]
A lot of people on here talk about music as if they know it, when in acutality they are more counter-culture or saw a special about the topic on VH1 and are inclined to believe they are experts. I can talk about music, but by no means do I talk about it like I hold the final word. I've taken a couple music classes at a university with a top music program and listen and love pretty much any and all music, so I can atleast see more than one side of teh story.
[QUOTE=Suns4Life]A lot of people on here talk about music as if they know it, when in acutality they are more counter-culture or saw a special about the topic on VH1 and are inclined to believe they are experts.[/QUOTE]
Buy Admanz album, then decide what he knows about music.
There is a solid point here. You can't always tell how good an artist is instrumentally by what the choose to put on a record. But it is possible to take an educated guess.
Think about a journalist. If this writer writes an AP wire story, the skill he shows will be very low. But if he then decides to write a book, he's probably going to use more skill. You can't judge how good a writer he is by the AP story.
I'm going to agree with Admanz, that he could not play on a Profesional level as far as Classical or Jazz. His skill is as a pop-writer. Writing a good pop song is incredibly underrated. Writing a good, original, and innovative pop song is rare. OutKast are very good at what they do. I like them a lot.
[quote=xxxSuperStar]If you take the songwriting and musical talent of mainstream bands and put it toe to toe with "indy" bands, in almost every case the mainstream people are better singers, better on their instruments, better performers and better songwriters. That's why they get record deals.
A lot of indy and non mainstream bands are really good, but by and large there is a flaw in something they do (songs sound similar, they don't have the capacity to produce more than one good album, they have internal problems, ect)
I'm leaving bubble gum pop and AMerican Idol stuff out of this because a lot of that is based on looks and appearence, but country, rock, punk, heavy, alternative, adult contemporary, jam bands, hip hop and everything else the mainstream people are amazing.[/quote]
You musn't know what to listen to if you think that's the case. That's a rediculous statement you've just made. Lyrically mainstream lyrics are just that appealing to the mainstream. I'll give you some of the musical talent is better, but it depends on what style you're looking at. The problem with mainstream bands is their songs sound "too similar".
back to idlewild... haven't heard it yet, have heard 'morris brown' and 'mighty o', though. to me, nowhere near as good 'aquemini', which is one of my fave albums of all time.
@ adamcz - you can judge his proficiency based on the technicality of his work, but eh... if all musicians played to their "musical potential", nobody would write simple songs... and sometimes simple songs are the most beautiful.
[QUOTE=playtetris]@ adamcz - you can judge his proficiency based on the technicality of his work, but eh... if all musicians played to their "musical potential", nobody would write simple songs... and sometimes simple songs are the most beautiful.[/QUOTE]Not true. Lots of guys who can [i]really[/i] play still write simple songs. Stevie Wonder, Charles Mingus, I could name 100.
Good to hear a professional's opinion of Andre's skills. The man can definitely sing, though - now there's no doubt that he's a class unto himself in that regard.
The other thing about him that you guys may have noticed but not thought about is that he is not tied down to the beat. Almost every rapper (and musician in general) uses rhythms that are almost rigidly locked down to the beat. Simple divisions of two and three. Check out "Return of the Gangster": after he says the words I put in quotes, he frees himself from the beat, and meets up with it later. Sounds simple, but I've been around music long enough to know that not many feel comfortable doing that. He does this a lot at a really subtle level - placing his words right where he wants to, ahead or behind of the beat.
And like somebody else said, writing good pop songs is a very underrated skill. If everybody could do it, they would. I know I would if I could.
[QUOTE=adamcz]The other thing about him that you guys may have noticed but not thought about is that he is not tied down to the beat. Almost every rapper (and musician in general) uses rhythms that are almost rigidly locked down to the beat. Simple divisions of two and three. Check out "Return of the Gangster": after he says the words I put in quotes, he frees himself from the beat, and meets up with it later. Sounds simple, but I've been around music long enough to know that not many feel comfortable doing that. He does this a lot at a really subtle level - placing his words right where he wants to, ahead or behind of the beat.
And like somebody else said, writing good pop songs is a very underrated skill. If everybody could do it, they would. I know I would if I could.[/QUOTE]
Playing the flute good dosen't make you an expert at music. Back when i was in High School I could play that thing like a wizard. Got so many awards and everything. I've seen what you look like. Thats what I looked like in high school. Skinny, glasses ,red hair, acne. Those days are long gone for me, but you obvisloly haven't got past that playing the flute gets you nowhere in the music buisness these days.
[quote]I never considered them hip hop, songs like "Hey ya" and "Church" seemed more like pop songs than hip hop. but if you disagree, then tell me your definition of hip hop, maybe mine is different.[/quote]
you only started listening to them since hey ya right? pick up their albums and try to tell they aint hip hop again...
also hiphop is a culture. outkast came from that culture so they're hip hop and making hip hop music. mary j came from that culture. thats why she's considered the queen of hip hop.
you're saying they aint hiphop, now i'm asking you: what's hiphop and why arent they hip hop?
pop music is popular music, which means a lot of hip hop songs can be considered pop. so that, for one, eliminates your post.
Kiss Alive II, great double album
[IMG]http://driver8.seesaa.net/image/alive2.jpg[/IMG]
Gene
[IMG]http://www.passzio.hu/kepek/kiss/6/alive2_gene2_bw.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=adamcz]I have all the Outkast albums, so the only way you're right is if he hasn't demonstrated his proficiency on them. Nice guess though.[/QUOTE]
That's my point. He doesn't really play any instruments on their albums. His supposed proficiency would be outside of his albums.
[QUOTE=adamcz]Not true. Lots of guys who can [i]really[/i] play still write simple songs. Stevie Wonder, Charles Mingus, I could name 100.[/QUOTE]
good call on the mingus. ****'s some of my favourite jazz
[QUOTE=loot]you only started listening to them since hey ya right? pick up their albums and try to tell they aint hip hop again...
also hiphop is a culture. outkast came from that culture so they're hip hop and making hip hop music. mary j came from that culture. thats why she's considered the queen of hip hop.
you're saying they aint hiphop, now i'm asking you: what's hiphop and why arent they hip hop?
pop music is popular music, which means a lot of hip hop songs can be considered pop. so that, for one, eliminates your post.[/QUOTE] I don't listen to Outkast period because that's not my style of music. I'm not going to waste my money on music I know I'm not going to like. My definition of hip hop, in layman's terms, is modern day rap. You had the old school rap from the early-mid 90's that you hear very little of today, so I just figured hip hop was the people like Three 6 Mafia and Lil Jon who only release songs to the radio that have to do with dance steps and ****in women.
Pop music to me is people like Pink, Jessica Simpson, Ashlee Simpson Kelly Clarkson, Britney Spears, N'Sync, people who just sing to studio made music but may carry a band around on tour for ****s and giggles.
[quote=adamcz]I've been a [I]professional[/I] musician for 9 years - been playing instruments for 20 years. I was offered full college scholarships on more than one instrument. I'm almost done with my doctorate in music. Point is, I can tell whether or not somebody can play an instrument at a professional level.
No, it's not an inference [I]you[/I] can make.
In this thread, I've stated that A: Andre3000 cannot play any instruments at a professional level, and B: I like Andre3000 lot and have all of his albums. How can you read statements A and B, and then come away from it thinking that I believe pop music is based on guitar shredding and virtuoso piano?
Why do you believe that just because [I]you[/I] aren't qualified to make a certain judgement that nobody else alive is either?[/quote]
Dude, it's obvious you're just pumping your ego. No one cares if you have or are getting your Phd in Performance. You think I didn't get a full ride on music? Think I don't run a record store and have been playing for 20 years? No one cares. We're talking about Andre and what he can do.
It doesn't matter how much you have trained or what you think you know, you can't judge someones musical talent from what they put on a hip pop record.
Your skills and training have nothing to do with it. You don't know crap about Andre, or any hip-hoppers musical skills across a variety of instruments, based on what they put on their pop record. How is that so hard to understand?
Once again, have you jammed with Andre? Was he in one of your classes? Did you see him at a performance concert, possibly playing some jazz or classical?
Please bring some evidence, something that holds ground other than your unfounded opinions based on yoru ego and his hip pop records.
[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]You think I didn't get a full ride on music? Think I don't run a record store and have been playing for 20 years?[/quote]
No, I don't think that. Your (lack of) command of the English language makes it very doubtful that you are an adult, much less a college graduate. Anything's possible, but this is one story that I'm not buying.
[quote]Your skills and training have nothing to do with it. You don't know crap about Andre, or any hip-hoppers musical skills across a variety of instruments, based on what they put on their pop record. How is that so hard to understand?[/quote]How is it so hard for [i]you[/i] to understand that when I hear somebody play an instrument, I can tell how good they are at it? I don't need to hear "virtuoso" passages to know if somebody can play - the highest level of virtuosity is subtlety anyway.
Do you think Jerry West needs to see 360 between the legs dunks to know if somebody can play basketball? Does he need to see three pointers from half court?
[quote]Please bring some evidence, something that holds ground other than your unfounded opinions based on yoru ego and his hip pop records.[/QUOTE]It's funny that you think the burden of proof lies on me here. What if I create a thread that claims Shaq is not only an Oscar-worthy actor, but also a better painter than Monet, and a better author than Hemmingway. According to your (lack of) logic, nobody can argue with my statement unless they can bring to the table a serious movie, painting, and novel by the Diesel? Would you enter that thread to defend my claim?
this album is a blend of hip hop, r and b, instruments, pop.. i love it..
big boi brings the heat on some tracks, but you can tell andre is trying to stay as far away from the dance hip hop as possible, which is a nice change..
im really into this album..
[QUOTE=Lascar78]That's my point. He doesn't really play any instruments on their albums. His supposed proficiency would be outside of his albums.[/QUOTE]Who takes the piano and soprano solos on "My Favorite Things" on Love Below? I assumed it was Andre, since why else would it be on the album?
First thing out of Dre's mouth on the album:
You ain't a hater? Can't tell.
Either wish me well, go to hell, or go to Yale.
Fitting.
This award should be reserved until next February when the Ghostface/MF Doom album comes out.
[QUOTE]My definition of hip hop, in layman's terms, is modern day rap. You had the old school rap from the early-mid 90's that you hear very little of today, so I just figured hip hop was the people like Three 6 Mafia and Lil Jon who only release songs to the radio that have to do with dance steps and ****in women.
Pop music to me is people like Pink, Jessica Simpson, Ashlee Simpson Kelly Clarkson, Britney Spears, N'Sync, people who just sing to studio made music but may carry a band around on tour for ****s and giggles.[/QUOTE]
you're definitions are screwed up.
hip hop isnt modern day rap, hip hop was hip hop back in 1979 already. modern day rap = also k-fed or what's his name. he's rapping, but no way he's hip hop.
[quote]Pop music to me is people like Pink, Jessica Simpson, Ashlee Simpson Kelly Clarkson, Britney Spears, N'Sync, people who just sing to studio made music but may carry a band around on tour for ****s and giggles[/quote]
every rapper uses studio ,ade music. you want to record on the streets? some carry a band around too... the definitions you just gave, just show you shouldn't comment at all. you're not interested in outkast, you didnt listen to their albums, so you shouldn't speak on the subject. period.
[QUOTE=funkylikemonkey]This award should be reserved until next February when the Ghostface/MF Doom album comes out.[/QUOTE]
hell yes
the album is 25 tracks.. some skits.. but its sucha solid album from 1 to 25.. the beats r akward, but they always have been without outkast..
its pure music, i love it...
outkast is the best duo ever
By the way, this album really isn't a duet album.
[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Dude, it's obvious you're just pumping your ego. No one cares if you have or are getting your Phd in Performance. You think I didn't get a full ride on music? Think I don't run a record store and have been playing for 20 years? No one cares. We're talking about Andre and what he can do.
It doesn't matter how much you have trained or what you think you know, you can't judge someones musical talent from what they put on a hip pop record.
Your skills and training have nothing to do with it. You don't know crap about Andre, or any hip-hoppers musical skills across a variety of instruments, based on what they put on their pop record. How is that so hard to understand?
Once again, have you jammed with Andre? Was he in one of your classes? Did you see him at a performance concert, possibly playing some jazz or classical?
Please bring some evidence, something that holds ground other than your unfounded opinions based on yoru ego and his hip pop records.[/QUOTE]
You flat out killed adamcz. Wow! :applause:
So who plays piano on My Favorite Things? Is it not Andre?
[QUOTE=JohnnyBravo5]I don't know if it is the best album, but Oukast is by far the best hip hop duo/Group of all time. They smoke, P.E., BDP, De La, Tribe, EPMD, Furious Five, Whodini, Get Fresh Cru, Wu Tang...all of em.
They only group that gives them comp are Run DMC, but they have a historical relevance that Outkast could never have so they aren't even in the discussion.
But out of the remaining groups, Outkast trumps them on [B]orginality, creativity, lyrical content, style, every level[/B]...[/QUOTE]
And you're an Atlanta fan praising an Atlanta group. Go figure. And how long you are relevant has little to do with how good/great you are. Wu Tang for the most part have artists who have put out classic, near classic albums. Who continue to do thier solo career. You'll never find a group that consisted of x amount f emcees each bringing thier own style/flava and morphing into 1 when they come as one/a group. So to just throw them out there like there is no competition for Outkast is retarded.
Your statements are dumb. But you're biased so why am I even going there?
i really dont listen to outkast but with pop-punk bands out there today u can that they arent very talented even if just by listening to their CD. You dont have to have jammed with those losers to kno that they suck. All they play are power chords and lame harmonic crap with two strings. This applies to what adamcz is playing. If andre had this talent then im sure he would show some of it.
BTW shredding isnt that skillful either. there is a difference between shredding and soloing.
[QUOTE=adamcz]So who plays piano on My Favorite Things? Is it not Andre?[/QUOTE]
No its McCoy Tyner:banana:
Right ;)
Best Album of Tha Year:
Rick Ross - Port of Miami
[QUOTE=LakerzFan4Life]Best Album of Tha Year:
Rick Ross - Port of Miami[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry bro, but RR is the worst dude out right now.
rick ross is a horrible rapper, outkasts album will and is blowing ross away..