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[QUOTE=Graviton]By your logic we can never criticize anyone until we are put in their shoes. [B]Guess I can't be critical of politicians unless I am one myself. And I can't condemn pedophiles unless I try raping some children. And I can't call out racist bigots unless I have plastic surgery and change my skin to their color. [/B]
Trying to "understand" someone isn't a prerequisite for criticism. When ignorant bullshit is being spewed without any logic or objectivety you don't need to be in someone else's shoes to realize it's wrong.[/QUOTE]
Nope completely missing the point so badly that it's laughable. :facepalm
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Nope completely missing the point so badly that it's laughable. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Then tell me your point, that phrase can be applied to absolutely anything to just excuse all kinds of horrible acts.
Like I said, if something is inherently stupid/evil/wrong, you don't need to "feel" for the person to criticize it. Just basic common sense would suffice.
[QUOTE=Dresta]Oh shut up, that was not what i was saying at all. As if i was saying the position and difficulties of the other side should be ignored. Are you saying the position of the 'other side' is ignorance and racism? If so you do that 'other side' a grand disservice. But then i don't even take the idiotic step of dividing this into 'sides' in the first place - that is the best way to create an irreparable divide.
There is NO excuse for spewing ignorance, especially hateful ignorance that some uninformed person could easily believe. There is NO reason to appease people with such views merely because their 'shoes' are different. You cannot understand what it is like to be anyone else by definition, so what you appear to be proposing is an impossible standard which would preclude people from passing judgement on ANYTHING.
This is the ****ing internet for God's sake: the guy could be a fat Chinese man trying to fill his time by winding people up, how the HELL is anyone supposed to be able to place themselves in the shoes of someone they don't KNOW anything about?[/QUOTE]
The poster ohthehorror is not a troll. He's a solid poster and I've seen him post in many other topics. I know it's hard to tell around here since there are so many posters, but I can tell that post was simply a response to all the bs that gets spewed around here about minorities.
There will always be sides to a divide. Always. Instead of assuming that there are no differences, if people ever want to actually make progress they need to at least try and understand why someone's perspective is the way it is. And I'm not saying it's racists to ignore the other perspective but the divide will always be there unless you try and understand. I have no idea about your life personally or struggles you've gone through, but if I sat down and understood where you were coming from I'd get a lot more clear picture of why you believe the things you do.
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]The poster ohthehorror is not a troll. He's a solid poster and I've seen him post in many other topics. I know it's hard to tell around here since there are so many posters, but I can tell that post was simply a response to all the bs that gets spewed around here about minorities.
There will always be sides to a divide. Always. Instead of assuming that there are no differences, if people ever want to actually make progress they need to at least try and understand why someone's perspective is the way it is. And I'm not saying it's racists to ignore the other perspective but the divide will always be there unless you try and understand. I have no idea about your life personally or struggles you've gone through, but if I sat down and understood where you were coming from I'd get a lot more clear picture of why you believe the things you do.[/QUOTE]
oh the horror is actually just an emotional poster that randomly lashes out at people for the most trivial things. I have experienced it first hand. He may not be a troll but he has their tendencies.
What he said may have been posted in the heat of a moment and in anger, but it was still an ignorant, hateful, racist comment. The state of his mind and feelings is irrelevant, it doesn't excuse what he did. Because he sure as hell didn't follow your advise to "put yourself in their shoes", he just went right to judging on his high horse. But now we are the bad guys for calling him out on that? :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Graviton]oh the horror is actually just an emotional poster that randomly lashes out at people for the most trivial things. I have experienced it first hand. He may not be a troll but he has their tendencies.
What he said may have been posted in the heat of a moment and in anger, but it was still an ignorant, hateful, racist comment. The state of his mind and feelings is irrelevant, it doesn't excuse what he did. Because he sure as hell didn't follow your advise to "put yourself in their shoes", he just went right to judging on his high horse. But now we are the bad guys for calling him out on that? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree about what he said being disrespectful and hateful, but do you really think he believes that? Basically what he did was twist words and history to paint a negative picture of white people. The exact same thing that has been posted about black people, yet I don't see the posters that called him out calling out the people that are posting things about black people. I'm not saying as a white person you need to defend minorities, but at the same time you have to acknowledge the crap that's getting thrown the other way and why someone would react that way. And I'm talking about strictly in this thread or all the threads related to this case.
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]I don't disagree about what he said being disrespectful and hateful, but do you really think he believes that? Basically what he did was twist words and history to paint a negative picture of white people. The exact same thing that has been posted about black people, yet I don't see the posters that called him out calling out the people that are posting things about black people. I'm not saying as a white person you need to defend minorities, but at the same time you have to acknowledge the crap that's getting thrown the other way and why someone would react that way. And I'm talking about strictly in this thread or all the threads related to this case.[/QUOTE]
:cheers: total agreement..
The thing about the incident that gets me (and Ive said it before) is how now it is OK to go for your gun if you are getting your ass kicked..
I remember growing up and there was a debate between black kids and white grown ups about the gun culture.. and white grown ups would say
"Its p*ssy to pull out a gun just because you cant fight"
and now? that logic doesnt seem to be the case anymore..
My thing is this.. You gotta be a bigtime p*ssy to need your gun because some kid 8 years younger than you is whupping your ass..
George Zimmerman would be dead today if didnt have his gun to shoot an kill an unarmed teenager? really? c'mon
That is ridiculous, and it is even more astounding to see people try and justify that way of thinking..
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]:cheers: total agreement..
The thing about the incident that gets me (and Ive said it before) is how now it is OK to go for your gun if you are getting your ass kicked..
I remember growing up and there was a debate between black kids and white grown ups about the gun culture.. and white grown ups would say
"Its p*ssy to pull out a gun just because you cant fight"
and now? that logic doesnt seem to be the case anymore..
My thing is this.. You gotta be a bigtime p*ssy to need your gun because some kid 8 years younger than you is whupping your ass..
George Zimmerman would be dead today if didnt have his gun to shoot an kill an unarmed teenager? really? c'mon
That is ridiculous, and it is even more astounding to see people try and justify that way of thinking..[/QUOTE]
Yeah man the way this whole trial has brought out the worst in some people just baffles my mind. I understand people arguing in favour of the justice system and I even to a degree understand people arguing in favour of gun laws, but this whole Zimmerman can never do anything wrong way of thinking is disturbing. The guy that trained in MMA couldn't take a teenager? And of course the guy would lie to cover his own ass, I doubt anyone will ever hear the true story.
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Yeah man the way this whole trial has brought out the worst in some people just baffles my mind. I understand people arguing in favour of the justice system and I even to a degree understand people arguing in favour of gun laws, but this whole Zimmerman can never do anything wrong way of thinking is disturbing. The guy that trained in MMA couldn't take a teenager? And of course the guy would lie to cover his own ass, I doubt anyone will ever hear the true story.[/QUOTE]
I saw that chick Rachel Jeantel on some interview, and she mentioned "ass whuppin"...
take your ass whuppin like a man... It was a situation where somebody was getting their tail kicked and he pulled out a gun..
Now, anybody can say "I thought my life was in danger so I just shot him"
Now everybody has gotta pack their sh*t and shoot first..
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]:cheers: total agreement..
The thing about the incident that gets me (and Ive said it before) is how now it is OK to go for your gun if you are getting your ass kicked..
I remember growing up and there was a debate between black kids and white grown ups about the gun culture.. and white grown ups would say
"Its p*ssy to pull out a gun just because you cant fight"
and now? that logic doesnt seem to be the case anymore..
My thing is this.. You gotta be a bigtime p*ssy to need your gun because some kid 8 years younger than you is whupping your ass..
George Zimmerman would be dead today if didnt have his gun to shoot an kill an unarmed teenager? really? c'mon
That is ridiculous, and it is even more astounding to see people try and justify that way of thinking..[/QUOTE]
I agree with the gun but at the same time, going by GZ story, if i was losing a fight, had my nose broken and was having my head smashed to the ground, I would fear for my life and if I had a gun I probably would have pulled it myself. I think the majority of people would have done the same in that situation since in that situation it's a fight or flight, and if TM is on top of him flight is not an option.
Now if GZ was punched in the gut and pulled out a gun then it's a different story.
What I'm more angered about is the total circus this trial has become and the medias race baiting tactics. Using old photos of Trayvon, using edited 9/11 calls to make it seem GZ was this racist and the out right calling GZ white. I'm more upset these journalist were more interested in creating a story than looking at the facts and evidence.
[QUOTE=ALBballer]What I'm more angered about is the total circus this trial has become and the medias race baiting tactics. Using old photos of Trayvon, using edited 9/11 calls to make it seem GZ was this racist and the out right calling GZ white. I'm more upset these journalist were more interested in creating a story than looking at the facts and evidence.[/QUOTE]
Im more upset about an unarmed kid getting shot to death and people insinuating that he somehow brought it on himself..
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I saw that chick Rachel Jeantel on some interview, and she mentioned "ass whuppin"...
take your ass whuppin like a man... It was a situation where somebody was getting their tail kicked and he pulled out a gun..
Now, anybody can say "I thought my life was in danger so I just shot him"
Now everybody has gotta pack their sh*t and shoot first..[/QUOTE]
Well, it didn't sound like a normal fight. It sounded like one person on the offensive who didn't suffer a single blow and one person entirely on the defensive, possibly calling for help.
Way different than, say, two willing participants fist fighting on their feet or something.
[QUOTE=2013 Lakers]Well, it didn't sound like a normal fight. It sounded like one person on the offensive who didn't suffer a single blow and one person entirely on the defensive, possibly calling for help.
Way different than, say, two willing participants fist fighting on their feet or something.[/QUOTE]
How is Zimmerman getting his ass kicked by a kid so easily? :oldlol:
The kid is unarmed..Zimmerman is a grown man who evidently has some kind of training in fighting..
I obviously dont believe a word of Zimmerman's story and he obviously has every reason to lie about what happened..
but all that aside.. Its almost like Zimmerman is helpless.. How is he so helpless?
Like I said, you gotta be the biggest chump around to need your gun in that situation..
It gives almost anyone the justification to do the same thing if they ever get into a situation where they are losing a fight..
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]How is Zimmerman getting his ass kicked by a kid so easily? :oldlol:
The kid is unarmed..Zimmerman is a grown man who evidently has some kind of training in fighting..
I obviously dont believe a word of Zimmerman's story and he obviously has every reason to lie about what happened..
but all that aside.. Its almost like Zimmerman is helpless.. How is he so helpless?
Like I said, you gotta be the biggest chump around to need your gun in that situation..
It gives almost anyone the justification to do the same thing if they ever get into a situation where they are losing a fight..[/QUOTE]
His MMA trainer gave him a rating of 0.5/10 for his fighting ability and body control. That's pretty bad.
All I'm saying is the situation seems markedly different than one where two people willingly enter into a fight. If it was as one-sided as the injuries make it look, I can easily see George getting hit with fear at some point during the assault where he realizes, [I]Oh shit, I'm not gonna be able to get this guy off of me.[/I]