The more I watch Lebron the more I am starting to think he's better than MJ

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]I think you mean the triangle offense.

Your agenda isn't that subtle, or gone unnoticed. A notorious poster attempting to diminish Jordan. There was no "primary ball-handler" on the championship Bulls team. It was done by comittee. Paxson, BJ, Pippen, Jordan, Harper, Brown, Kukoc, Kerr etc.

The nature of their offense required copious amounts of cutting, and ball movement. A playmaking PG, or Point Forward like LeBron who dominates the ball or creates off the dribble typically would suffer in Tex Winter's system.[/QUOTE]


Thank you. You noticed how RBR tries to toss shade MJ's way every chance he gets, too, huh? He'll hype up Lebron, but tear down MJ. He ain't slick.

mods on collective vacations?

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/sf6lCE5.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE]There was no "primary ball-handler" on the championship Bulls team.[/QUOTE]

What I meant was this:

*MJ led the Bulls in assists in 1985, 1988, 1989 and 1990. He was hurt for most of 1986 and in 1987 it was Paxson.
*Pippen led the Bulls in assists from 1991-1998.

That was a significant switch implemented along with the triangle. The purpose of the triangle was to create more ball movement. MJ led the league in FGA per game practically every year (more often than even Wilt) and is the all-time leader in FGA per game. Lebron has never led the league in FGA. Jordan averaged 23.3 FGA as a Bull along with 5.4 assists; Lebron has averaged 19.9 FGA for his career along with 6.9 assists. In Miami Lebron has averaged 18.2 FGA with 6.7 assists. You don't see a difference? :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE]He'll hype up Lebron[/QUOTE]

I was a Lebron skeptic when I joined ISH (I had Wade as the league's best player in 2009). The fact is Lebron has [I]a chance[/I] to surpass MJ. Why does that fact make MJ fans terrified? He still has a way to go and even then it will remain debatable but it is delusional to act as if Jordan is far and away better and that Lebron does not have a chance to surpass him. As to MJ, I have him in my top 5 of all-time and have him as the GOAT perimeter player. It is not as if I consider him a scrub.

The public GOAT torch is always passed. I warned MJ fans of this in 2009-2010, remember? I told you guys that over time the "Lebron is the GOAT" crowd would grow just like the "MJ is the GOAT" grew in the 80's and early 90's. MJ had 3 rings, 3 MVP's and was viewed as GOAT over people like Kareem who had double the MVP's and rings or Russell with 11 rings and 5 MVP's. There is a bias for the most recent "top-tier great" player--and a bias for who you saw. Add to that massive marketing machines, which no athlete has enjoyed as much as MJ, and it is easy to see how people like Russell and Kareem tend to be forgotten and Wilt ridiculed. You would think basketball started in 1980 or even 1990 reading much of this board. This is not an attack; it is a commentary. You could see the same thing on a NFL board. How many threads are there about Unitas or Van Brocklin?

This thread is a perfect example of what I projected half a decade ago--which MJ fans dismissed as impossible because no one could ever--ever--match what MJ did, the world would forever be frozen in 1998. See, to us MJ is real but to most of ISH MJ is as historical a figure as Kareem or Wilt are to us. People tend to lose track of how fast time flies in the historical sense. An incoming college freshman this year would have been 3 years old when Bill Clinton left the White House...to us people like Clinton, Jordan, prime Shaq are live figures but to an increasing number of people they are ancient history. Barring injury, the likely scenario is that 5 years from now most people will believe Lebron is the GOAT...

The same thing will happen to Lebron one day, though.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]

That is a fair point. In terms of team strength there was more competition in the 80's, at least at the top [B](remember, the Bulls made the playoffs as a 30 win team in one season :oldlol: )[/B].[/QUOTE]

I just wanted to make a point here. It was a different era. I don't think it's laughable matter in a bad way or saying they were weak because of their record, but because of the relative era. Look at the Eastern and Western conference. Everybody was losing to each other. The sixth seed of the East only had 39 wins. The sixth seed in the West only had 40 wins. The talented Pistons only had 46 wins. The fifth seed in the west only had 42 wins.

Only six teams out of 23 teams in the NBA in 1986 got 50 wins or above. What does that show? I say hella competition from the non elite teams. Everybody were losing to each other except for the top tier teams. Those top tier teams were super stacked and some of the GOAT teams.

[QUOTE=sportjames23]Thank you. You noticed how RBR tries to toss shade MJ's way every chance he gets, too, huh? He'll hype up Lebron, but tear down MJ. He ain't slick.[/QUOTE]
Guy is a clown, thinks he's subtle too. He isn't a Bulls fan. His whole agenda is anti-Jordan. It's been obvious for YEARS. He used to hype Kobe on the sly, now it's LeBron. Hyped up Pippen to ridiculous levels. When a Bulls fan clings to the 1994 team's success as the end all / be all argument. It's with agenda. Any Bulls fan who watched that season knew we out performed expectations due to people not taking us seriously sans Michael. The very next season before MJ showed up they were struggling to stay at .500. The very comment about "it not being a surprise the Bulls success came with the emergence of a distributor ball handler" tells me first hand he didn't even watch the championship Bulls. Or at least understand what he was watching. They didn't have a primary ball handler.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Why do you repeat yourself in every thread, power glove?

Reality is not "nostalgia".. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
You should know better... atlwhatever is not me.

:roll: I basically did not even post on this board for several years. The "agenda" could not be that important if I had something like 30 posts in 3 years. Besides, aren't I "Fatal9"? What happened to that wacky conspiracy theory?

[QUOTE]He used to hype Kobe on the sly, now it's LeBron.[/QUOTE]

I have not cared much for Kobe either way. In fact, Lakers fans at one point viewed me as a foe because I advocated for Amare.

[QUOTE]Hyped up Pippen to ridiculous levels.[/QUOTE]

Yeah--you know, my favorite player of all-time, whose jersey I still have. :rolleyes: Not all of us jumped on the biggest bandwagon going (like you, from MJ straight to Kobe). Let me guess: your favorite football player is Tom Brady?

[QUOTE]When a Bulls fan clings to the 1994 team's success as the end all / be all argument. It's with agenda.[/QUOTE]

To showcase how underrated Pippen is, especially by agenda-driven MJ fans who want to act as if MJ won all by himself.

[QUOTE]Any Bulls fan who watched that season knew we out performed expectations due to people not taking us seriously sans Michael. The very next season before MJ showed up they were struggling to stay at .500.[/QUOTE]

[I]This[/I] is agenda posting. Notice how he left out the part about Horace Grant's 15/11 and elite defense leaving after 1994? The biggest change between the 1994 and 1995 teams was the loss of Grant, which made them a weak rebounding team and weak in terms of interior defense. Why do you think they were so desperate, after a shellacking even after MJ returned at the hands of Shaq-Penny-Grant, to take on Rodman? Rodman was a huge risk at the time--that is why the Bulls got him for a scrub center. The Spurs could not get better value and were desperate to unload him. The Bulls, though, knew the reward was worth the risk because he corrected their biggest weakness.

Regarding the 1994 Bulls, more spin. The 94' Bulls were in contention for the top seed pretty much all season. The idea that they snuck up on anyone is laughable. I think they even had the best record in the East at the all-star break.

[QUOTE]They didn't have a primary ball handler.[/QUOTE]

Who brought the ball up the court, had the ball the most and led them in assists every year (during the years they were winning championships)? Primary simply means more than the secondary and tertiary. I am not saying it was a Chris Paul-type scenario.

Regarding being a Bulls fan, Samuri is the only Bulls "fan" who thinks the Hue Hollins call was legitimate--all because he cannot fathom the idea of the Bulls advancing in the absence of that call without MJ.

I was a MJ supporter until I came to ISH and met his fans en masse. It will be a joy to watch them squirm as Lebron surpasses MJ as the public GOAT. It is hilarious to see it already happening when Lebron is not even close yet! :lol

mj mythologists shook :lol

[QUOTE=atljonesbro]Jordan Mythologists/Nostalgists are a funny, insecure group.[/QUOTE]

Not as funny as the dudes that started watching in 2011.

And its not Jordan mythologists, the vast majority of people thinks that Jordan is better than Lebron. Only people that think Lebron as an argument are his stans, people that just follow him and not basketball.

[QUOTE]And its not Jordan mythologists, the vast majority of people thinks that Jordan is better than Lebron.[/QUOTE]

Will that be the case in 5 years? I don't think so. This is what terrifies MJ stans. Kobe could have done it but just did not have that top-tier level of greatness. MJ stans dodged that bullet but Lebron is the most formidable threat to MJ's status as the public GOAT that there has ever been.


[QUOTE]Only people that think Lebron as an argument are his stans, people that just follow him and not basketball.[/QUOTE]

4-5 years ago [I]no one[/I] thought he did. It was assumed that he may reach the top 5 but that no one would ever come close to MJ. That is rapidly changing...every season as Lebron keeps adding to his legacy...and people like Samuri know it and are terrified. :pimp:

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Will that be the case in 5 years? I don't think so. This is what terrifies MJ stans. Kobe could have done it but just did not have that top-tier level of greatness. MJ stans dodged that bullet but Lebron is the most formidable threat to MJ's status as the public GOAT that there has ever been.




4-5 years ago [I]no one[/I] thought he did. It was assumed that he may reach the top 5 but that no one would ever come close to MJ. That is rapidly changing...every season as Lebron keeps adding to his legacy...and people like Samuri know it and are terrified. :pimp:[/QUOTE]

Maybe you are right and in 5 years he will have a case, highly unlikely IMO, but anything can happen. But to say that he already is better, or that is really close like some people here are saying is just ridiculous.

almost 300 replies:lebronamazed:

After reading some of the responses in this thread, I actually realized I'm not even that big of a LeBron stan. The length some of you will go to defend your favorite player is astonishing. :eek: It's really not that big of a deal.

[QUOTE=bukowski81]Maybe you are right and in 5 years he will have a case, highly unlikely IMO, but anything can happen. But to say that he already is better, or that is really close like some people here are saying is just ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone is saying Lebron is better than Jordan all-time. What some are saying is that Lebron is a better player than Jordan was and/or that Lebron could wind up as the most decorated player of all-time when it is all said and done.

Lebron already has 4 MVP's (Jordan had 5) and 2 rings. If he finishes with, say, 6-7 MVP's and 4-5 rings why would he not have a legitimate case as the GOAT? The GOAT is a subject of debate but it would be hard to say Lebron would not at least have a case if that is what he finishes his career with. It is not unrealistic that he wins 2-3 more rings and 2-3 more MVP's.

Time works for Lebron. Everyone watching basketball today has seen Lebron play; there is an increasing percentage of the basketball world who has not seen Jordan play and that will hurt him over time just as it has hurt Kareem vis-a-vis Jordan, even though Kareem has 6 MVP's and 6 rings and was the most dominant college and high school player ever as well (in other words, the greatest of [U]all[/U] time).

Lebron could fall off or just fall short but he has all the potential to overtake Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, Russell, Wilt.