"Pippen was the best player in the world in 93, 94, 95" - Dennis Rodman

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14336849]Again. More revisionist history. I vividly remember a commercial the Bulls put out asking the fans to celebrate safely when they won the series when the Bulls went up 3-1 and had game 5 in Chicago. The Bulls never feared the Suns.

The only Series that scared me was the 98 series vs the Jazz. And that's only because Pippen hurt his back in game 6.[/QUOTE]

Ok, and? How did they lose Game 5? Jordan had 41/7/7 on 16/29 FG to Barkley's 24/6/6 on 9/18 FG, surely the Bulls blew them out since MJ had the much better team, right?

'97 Finals was just as close, and that's with a better MJ and Pippen. It wasn't as scary because Bulls had home court. We need to stop underrating the Bulls' competition. This wasn't a thing until the 2010s, now Pippen's all of a sudden a top 3 player of his era and the Bulls were SO much better than everyone else.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14336869]Ok, and? How did they lose Game 5? Jordan had 41/7/7 on 16/29 FG to Barkley's 24/6/6 on 9/18 FG, surely the Bulls blew them out since MJ had the much better team, right?
[/QUOTE]
The Bulls lost because much like what they did in Seattle, they began to coast when they felt comfortable.


[QUOTE]'97 Finals was just as close, and that's with a better MJ and Pippen. It wasn't as scary because Bulls had home court. We need to stop underrating the Bulls' competition. This wasn't a thing until the 2010s, now Pippen's all of a sudden a top 3 player of his era and the Bulls were SO much better than everyone else.[/QUOTE]

I feel the Bulls had great competition. I don't subscribe to the notion that the NBA was watered down in the 90s. But I'm also not gonna underrate the Bulls outside of MJ.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14336838]The 92 Blazers without Drexler were 2-4. [B]We saw what the Bulls could do without Jordan in 94. Just in case you forgot, the Bulls won 55 games[/B].

And before you try to argue sample size. Dont forget that you guys base players whole careers on what they did in a 5, 6, or 7 game playoff series.[/QUOTE]

Bulls winning 55 games in 1994 was something expected for defending champs but not really a special one just because MJ was out. Remember, 1993 Bulls underachieved and should've won more than 57 games. MJ & Pip were practically exhausted the whole 1993 season because they literally got no resting period because of the Olympics.

Saying Pip carried the 1994 Bulls was what should be expected, but nothing too spectacular to elevate Pip's status as top 5

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/portland-trail-blazers/last-dance-didnt-bother-mention-clyde-drexlers-injury-prior-92-finals[/url]

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14336210]I'm saying Pippen was a top 5 player. Definitely in the conversation.

You seem to think that's preposterous. That he wasnt that highly regarded. That's when you get inundated with a plethora of information from Coaches, players, GMs, the media, and even fans. At some point, it's not cherry picking as you called it.[/QUOTE]

Of course it isn't preposterous, but to claim #2 is. I agree it's a conversation where entering him into the top 5 during that time is concerned.

[QUOTE]I mean, Pippen was getting praise by some of the most arrogant players the league has ever seen in guys like MJ and Barkley, perhaps his biggest enemy (Isiah Thomas) said he was the 2nd best player after Jordan over the last 4-5 seasons. We got more guys calling him what I call him than what you call him.
[/QUOTE]

Because players make claims all the time. Some are right, some are wrong, some are interpreted differently to others, and some are specific to a time.

[QUOTE]Maybe you need to reevaluate your assessment bro. I mean, theres no reason for people to lie for Pippen. Prior to MJs retirement, people were calling the Bulls a one man show. It was Michael and the Jordanaires. They saw the growth.[/QUOTE]

I never denied this. My point is that:

- Pippen was a top 8 player between 1994-96.

- Pippen is in the discussion for top 5, though not likely over guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Malone, Barkley, MJ, and Ewing. Hence I would put him at #8.

- It is absurd to put him at #2 during that stretch.

- If you want to say he's definitively #5 then I would disagree. But saying he's #2, even within the discussion, is much more absurd than me and mehya saying he's #8.

[QUOTE=ImKobe;14336869]Ok, and? How did they lose Game 5? Jordan had 41/7/7 on 16/29 FG to Barkley's 24/6/6 on 9/18 FG, surely the Bulls blew them out since MJ had the much better team, right?

'97 Finals was just as close, and that's with a better MJ and Pippen. It wasn't as scary because Bulls had home court. We need to stop underrating the Bulls' competition. This wasn't a thing until the 2010s, now Pippen's all of a sudden a top 3 player of his era and the Bulls were SO much better than everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Yup...

MJ was the difference in the Suns series too. The Bulls needed a super clutch paxson shot to win in game 6, and that was with MJ averaging 40.

Terry Porter, Buck Williams, Kevin Johnson, and Thunder Dan were all All Stars. And MJ outplayed Clyde and Barkley.

[QUOTE=Bawkish;14336915]Bulls winning 55 games in 1994 was something expected for defending champs but not really a special one just because MJ was out. Remember, 1993 Bulls underachieved and should've won more than 57 games. MJ & Pip were practically exhausted the whole 1993 season because they literally got no resting period because of the Olympics.

Saying Pip carried the 1994 Bulls was what should be expected, but nothing too spectacular to elevate Pip's status as top 5[/QUOTE]

I dont disagree. They were that talented. I was only responding to this notion that if you switch Jordan and Drexler, the Blazers are the better team. Vehemently disagree.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14336550]You are obviously entitled to your opinion. So tell us. Why do you think Pippen is so highly regard by so many? By the professionals?[/QUOTE]

barkley, a professional, also thought pippen was selfish. and that he would never win without jordan.

[url]https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/05/20/charles-barkley-thoughts-scottie-pippen-houston-rockets/[/url]

nick anderson, another professional, thought 95 jordan was best in the world. meanwhile you think its ridiculous because mj [U]only[/U] played 17 games. if pros are the alleged "gold standard" then explain this.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14337176]barkley, a professional, also thought pippen was selfish. and that he would never win without jordan.

[url]https://spacecityscoop.com/2020/05/20/charles-barkley-thoughts-scottie-pippen-houston-rockets/[/url]

nick anderson, another professional, thought 95 jordan was best in the world. meanwhile you think its ridiculous because mj [U]only[/U] played 17 games. if pros are the alleged "gold standard" then explain this.[/QUOTE]

What was the context and when did Barkley say it? Wasnt his quite made after Pippen called him fat and lazy?

Nick Anderson may really belives that. That's his opinion.

My only point with the Scottie Pippen conversation is that soooooo many people had that stance.

[IMG]https://i0.wp.com/sneakerhistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/scottie-jordan-10-comeback-mj.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14337433]What was the context and when did Barkley say it? Wasnt his quite made after Pippen called him fat and lazy?

Nick Anderson may really belives that. That's his opinion.[/quote]

it was barkley reflecting back on pippen. chuck explicitly says pippen could NEVER win without jordan. nick anderson said his piece about jordan too. obviously he believed it. so who am i to take seriously, you or the pro? :confusedshrug:

[quote]My only point with the Scottie Pippen conversation is that soooooo many people had that stance.[/QUOTE]

and many more felt differently.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14337053]Of course it isn't preposterous, but to claim #2 is. I agree it's a conversation where entering him into the top 5 during that time is concerned.



Because players make claims all the time. Some are right, some are wrong, some are interpreted differently to others, and some are specific to a time.



I never denied this. My point is that:

- Pippen was a top 8 player between 1994-96.

- Pippen is in the discussion for top 5, though not likely over guys like Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Malone, Barkley, MJ, and Ewing. Hence I would put him at #8.

- It is absurd to put him at #2 during that stretch.

- If you want to say he's definitively #5 then I would disagree. But saying he's #2, even within the discussion, is much more absurd than me and mehya saying he's #8.[/QUOTE]

97 bulls, is this fair?

We know he was. Dennis has an excellent bbiq.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14337528]97 bulls, is this fair?[/QUOTE]

I think its fair for the most part. I mean. Nobodies opinion is wrong. I'd say Pip was number 2 in 95 and top 5 from 94-96. I don't think Shaq was better at the time because he was too young. And he was really only a dunker. I wouldn't take Ewing over Pippen either. Jordan wasnt in the league in 94 and 95. So the only real ones are Olajuwan and Robinson.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14337646]I think its fair for the most part. I mean. Nobodies opinion is wrong. I'd say Pip was number 2 in 95 and top 5 from 94-96. I don't think Shaq was better at the time because he was too young. And he was really only a dunker. I wouldn't take Ewing over Pippen either. Jordan wasnt in the league in 94 and 95. So the only real ones are Olajuwan and Robinson.[/QUOTE]

C'mon bro; Shaq may have been young, but he was definitely better than Pippen at least collectively for those three years.

He won 2 scoring titles* (I don't count Robinson's stat padding) in two of those three years. Dominated the Pacers in the ECF of '95, then went on to put up 28/13/6/3 on 60% against peak Hakeem. How many centers can ever claim they played that well against Hakeem, let alone in his peak?

Top 5 I disagree with, top 2 for one year I also disagree with, especially when Ewing led his team to a far better record putting up better numbers, after having beaten Pippen just the previous year.

But anyhow, if we agree it's fair, then that pretty much says it all. Don't tell the Bran stans though.

Btw I love how they all cheerlead but never have anything constructive to say :lol