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[QUOTE=juju151111]I am really confused here. So he is saying we should ignore Firms good games because they Loss, but doesn't noticed Terry played like hot garbage those games.[/QUOTE]
Yea as DMAVS41 said he is only showing the games where Terry played well to attempt to prop up his arguement and ignore that Dirk played well the whole series when Terry was on and off
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This just isn't true. In Dirk's 10 highest scoring games in the 11 playoffs...the Mavs went 8-2. Like...what more do you really want? Because they won a few games with Dirk not playing great...he doesn't matter?
Your problem is that you fail to realize just how much to the table Dirk brings than you give him credit for. If you really think Dirk is just a higher ppg scorer than Terry and that is the only difference...you just don't know basketball.[/QUOTE]
I was talking about the finals.
Dirk is great. No question there. One of the best.
But I don't think his offense meant more than their defense though. Magic was the only guy I might say that about in the playoffs . I think in the regular season Dirk pulls it off several times.
And I believe Dirk's experience makes him better than Durant in a tight playoff series. He's great no doubt.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]I was talking about the finals.
Dirk is great. No question there. One of the best.
But I don't think his offense meant more than their defense though. Magic was the only guy I might say that about in the playoffs . I think in the regular season Dirk pulls it off several times.
And I believe Dirk's experience makes him better than Durant in a tight playoff series. He's great no doubt.[/QUOTE]
Like I have said repeatedly...the defense was very important...especially what it allowed us to get on offense after stops...etc.
But while the defense was very good and very important...it was about average at best for a championship winning team. That is what I am grading it on. Just like Terry...he was so good...made so many key shots and big plays...but he's still a subpar 2nd option for a title winning team.
That has been my point from the beginning with you. I'm not denying how important terry and the defense were...i'm just saying they weren't as good as you claim. Literally every title team of this era has a better 2nd guy than Terry other than the 03 Spurs. And has a better defense outside of the 10 Lakers.
[QUOTE=Black and White]But that doesn't mean that Dirk played bad in the wins does it? He still played extremely well, so maybe you should rephrase what you said about they win when he plays bad.[/QUOTE]
My point was that Terry was much more efficient and consistent and that he shouldn't be played down. Timely scoring is a value on every team that wins championships. SA definitely wins it all with that quality.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]My point was that Terry was much more efficient and consistent and that he shouldn't be played down. Timely scoring is a value on every team that wins championships. SA definitely wins it all with that quality.[/QUOTE]
But who has said Terry wasn't great in the finals? I just haven't heard anyone claim that Terry wasn't absolutely key in winning the series against the Heat.
Hell, I've even heard people (wrongfully so) claim he was the fmvp. You act like people are claiming he sucked or something.
If terry played like he did in the finals more consistenlty...the Mavs would probably have 3 titles since 06.
[QUOTE=Black and White]Yea as DMAVS41 said he is only showing the games where Terry played well to attempt to prop up his arguement and ignore that Dirk played well the whole series when Terry was on and off[/QUOTE]
Dirk didn't play well the whole series. In two of the wins he played bad one whole game and most of the other. He had a great playoff run, but I am very specific in what I say.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Like I have said repeatedly...the defense was very important...especially what it allowed us to get on offense after stops...etc.
But while the defense was very good and very important...it was about average at best for a championship winning team. That is what I am grading it on. Just like Terry...he was so good...made so many key shots and big plays...but he's still a subpar 2nd option for a title winning team.
That has been my point from the beginning with you. I'm not denying how important terry and the defense were...i'm just saying they weren't as good as you claim. Literally every title team of this era has a better 2nd guy than Terry other than the 03 Spurs. And has a better defense outside of the 10 Lakers.[/QUOTE]
Richard Hamilton wasn't an adequate two guy to me either. But Rasheed or Tayshaun was a great 5 guy. Tyson or Marion great 5 guys.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Richard Hamilton wasn't an adequate two guy to me either. But Rasheed or Tayshaun was a great 5 guy. Tyson or Marion great 5 guys.[/QUOTE]
Yea...he wasn't great or anything...but that team was not built around a star so it's hard to judge.
But I'd still take 04 Hamilton over Terry here. He did average 22/5/4 on good efficiency...especially in one of the toughest defensive years ever.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Yea...he wasn't great or anything...but that team was not built around a star so it's hard to judge.
But I'd still take 04 Hamilton over Terry here. He did average 22/5/4 on good efficiency...especially in one of the toughest defensive years ever.[/QUOTE]
Haven't seen a Mavs game this year. Is Dirk still the first option? How many more years do you see him playing and as a first option?
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Haven't seen a Mavs game this year. Is Dirk still the first option? How many more years do you see him playing and as a first option?[/QUOTE]
He and Ellis are about even offensively so far.
Hopefully 0...he can't be a championship first option anymore in my opinion. Well, he could be, but that team would have to absurdly stacked.
Great question
Prime Dirk,but this is very close
prime dirk for me is the 2011 playoff Dirk...:bowdown: I love watching youtube repeats of that year's playoff run, just so ficking awesome...
clutch as you like and was incredibly dominant.....hit the shots at the right times, step up when it's needed, pass when he needs to and doesn't freeze his team mate out by taking all the shots.....
handled the pressure like nobody's business......
current durant has yet to prove he can do that, even with his stats...
I am a big KD fan....maybe his career will unfold like Dirks....get back to the finals a few years later, he has the game....
Not considering playoffs, this is unquestionably Durant
Current Durant
29.6 ppg 8.2 rpg 4.9 apg 3.0 TOV 62.7 TS% 29.9 PER .318 WSp48 123 ORTG 99 DRTG 20.4 Win Shares
Peak Dirk
26.6 ppg 9.0 rpg 2.8 apg 1.9 TOV 58.9 TS% 28.1 PER .275 WSp48 123 ORTG 103 DRTG 17.7 Win Shares
Durant's a better scorer, rebounder relative to position, passer, defender.
[QUOTE=Joyner82reload]Not considering playoffs, this is unquestionably Durant
Current Durant
29.6 ppg 8.2 rpg 4.9 apg 3.0 TOV 62.7 TS% 29.9 PER .318 WSp48 123 ORTG 99 DRTG 20.4 Win Shares
Peak Dirk
26.6 ppg 9.0 rpg 2.8 apg 1.9 TOV 58.9 TS% 28.1 PER .275 WSp48 123 ORTG 103 DRTG 17.7 Win Shares
Durant's a better scorer, rebounder relative to position, passer, defender.[/QUOTE]
I think your post shows that Durant is statistically better...that is all.
Dirk's impact goes beyond stats in a way I don't think Durant's does to date.
It will be interesting to see what Durant does with better help than Dirk ever had in his career. We already saw 12 Durant come up short with that roster...hopefully he has a healthy team this year so we see it.
Prime Dirk slightly.