Dirk is one of those guy's whose impact you just can't quantify. I'd love to have seen him dominate with the team that drafted him. He'd get a lot more respect around here.
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Dirk is one of those guy's whose impact you just can't quantify. I'd love to have seen him dominate with the team that drafted him. He'd get a lot more respect around here.
Dirk, not even close. Durant can't win,period. Nothing but a taller Iverson.
Prime Dirk > Current Durant
Prime Dirk ? Prime Durant
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]I think your post shows that Durant is statistically better...that is all.
Dirk's impact goes beyond stats in a way I don't think Durant's does to date.
It will be interesting to see what Durant does with better help than Dirk ever had in his career. We already saw 12 Durant come up short with that roster...hopefully he has a healthy team this year so we see it.[/QUOTE]
I would pick prime dirk..
but you know whats funny Dmavs41. When there is a player who is a better scorer than dirk you highlight other things he can do as oppose to kg who is not a ben wallace on scoring you failed to his greatness outside of scoring that dirk clearly has over KG. but here now you go stating that as an excuse again that dirk had the one of the worst second option in scoring but their defense even a 50 year old jason kidd played outstanding defense that helped them get the title you mention that but still you weigh things as OFFESE>> DEFENSE because you always say that dirk didnt have a Great 2nd option . Why is it that it sounds like its a workload for dirk if he was such a good scorer. AI didnt have a team mate that scored more than 15 ppg in his playoff run just so you know .
[QUOTE=veilside23]I would pick prime dirk..
but you know whats funny Dmavs41. When there is a player who is a better scorer than dirk you highlight other things he can do as oppose to kg who is not a ben wallace on scoring you failed to his greatness outside of scoring that dirk clearly has over KG. but here now you go stating that as an excuse again that dirk had the one of the worst second option in scoring but their defense even a 50 year old jason kidd played outstanding defense that helped them get the title you mention that but still you weigh things as OFFESE>> DEFENSE because you always say that dirk didnt have a Great 2nd option . Why is it that it sounds like its a workload for dirk if he was such a good scorer. AI didnt have a team mate that scored more than 15 ppg in his playoff run just so you know .[/QUOTE]
I can't make sense of this post.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]I can't make sense of this post.[/QUOTE]
Your arguments are inconsistent and borderline contradictory and he's getting tired of it. That's what I got from that.
[QUOTE=moe94]Your arguments are inconsistent and borderline contradictory and he's getting tired of it. That's what I got from that.[/QUOTE]
How?
[QUOTE=Milbuck]Dirk is one of those guy's whose impact you just can't quantify. I'd love to have seen him dominate with the team that drafted him. He'd get a lot more respect around here.[/QUOTE]
He's a super hero here in Dallas...can't be more respected anywhere else than he already is here.
[QUOTE=kenny817]He's a super hero here in Dallas...can't be more respected anywhere else than he already is here.[/QUOTE]
When he'll finally retire in 2025, his fadeaway will make for the ugliest athlete statue of all time.
[QUOTE=veilside23]I would pick prime dirk..
but you know whats funny Dmavs41. When there is a player who is a better scorer than dirk you highlight other things he can do as oppose to kg who is not a ben wallace on scoring you failed to his greatness outside of scoring that dirk clearly has over KG. but here now you go stating that as an excuse again that dirk had the one of the worst second option in scoring but their defense even a 50 year old jason kidd played outstanding defense that helped them get the title you mention that but still you weigh things as OFFESE>> DEFENSE because you always say that dirk didnt have a Great 2nd option . Why is it that it sounds like its a workload for dirk if he was such a good scorer. AI didnt have a team mate that scored more than 15 ppg in his playoff run just so you know .[/QUOTE]
Again, I don't really follow, but I'm getting really sick and tired of the whole "defense" was the reason why the 11 Mavs won.
It simply wasn't. It was a below average defense both in the regular season and playoffs for a championship team.
I've gone over this time and time again. Was the defense really good and really important? Yes...just not nearly as good or as important as the offense. Also, Dirk made a positive impact defensively (which you seem to ignore)
Offense is more valuable than defense at the individual superstar level...that is what I have argued in the past. Team defense vs team offense? I'd lean towards defense actually...although it's based on circumstances and specific teams and years.
But again. People need to really stop the "defense" won it for the 11 Mavs kick.
The Mavs had a 112.9 offensive rating in the 11 playoffs. The next closest team was OKC at 109.5. Which is a pretty big gap between 1 and 2. Then the next best was the Lakers at 107.8....
Defense? Mavs had the 8th best playoff defense. Definitely worse than the top 4...and absolutely nothing special historically for a champion. In fact, most championship teams of like the last 25 years played better defense.
Give me Dirk anyday. He's a proven winner.
Durant lost in the finals against Lebron playing alongside Westbrook and Ibaka while Dirk took out the same Heat team with far lesser talent.
Why are people saying Dirk is a proven winner? He has only won one final series. Did you somehow forget Dirk's entire career before that? The lost to Golden State? The countless choke jobs?
Kevin Durant is only 25 years old and he put up better numbers in the finals then Dirk ever did. The only difference is that Lebron decided to actually show up in 2012 instead of the disappearing like in 2011. Dirk is lucky to have that ring. You can be sure if Lebron played like he did in 2012 in the 2011 finals Dirk would still be ringless.
[QUOTE=navy]Why are people saying Dirk is a proven winner? He has only won one final series. Did you somehow forget Dirk's entire career before that? The lost to Golden State? The countless choke jobs?
Kevin Durant is only 25 years old and he put up better numbers in the finals then Dirk ever did. The only difference is that Lebron decided to actually show up in 2012 instead of the disappearing like in 2011. Dirk is lucky to have that ring. You can be sure if Lebron played like he did in 2012 in the 2011 finals Dirk would still be ringless.[/QUOTE]
Repeat: Durant lost in the finals against Lebron playing alongside Westbrook and Ibaka aka Durant choked. The same team Dirk took apart with scrubs.
No one remembers MJ's losses in the first round and ECF against the bad boys. You only count the rings. So yes, Dirk is a proven winner.
[QUOTE=navy]Why are people saying Dirk is a proven winner? He has only won one final series. Did you somehow forget Dirk's entire career before that? The lost to Golden State? The countless choke jobs?
Kevin Durant is only 25 years old and he put up better numbers in the finals then Dirk ever did. The only difference is that Lebron decided to actually show up in 2012 instead of the disappearing like in 2011. Dirk is lucky to have that ring. You can be sure if Lebron played like he did in 2012 in the 2011 finals Dirk would still be ringless.[/QUOTE]
could you please list the countless choke jobs. please. list the countless choke jobs outside of the 07 series.
a series in which Dirk was hiding an injury, his father was having serious surgery during the series, against his old head coach, against a nightmare matchup....with Avery Johnson literally crumbling before even game 1.
please list those countless choke jobs...
Love doing this to the morons...we'll be waiting. You are going to have to get very creative...
[QUOTE=GoranDragon]Repeat: Durant lost in the finals against Lebron playing alongside Westbrook and Ibaka aka Durant choked. The same team Dirk took apart with scrubs.
No one remembers MJ's losses in the first round and ECF against the bad boys. You only count the rings. So yes, Dirk is a proven winner.[/QUOTE]
Jason Terry outplayed Lebron in the Finals. If Dirk won with scrubs then what did the Heat have outside of Wade?