Russell to LeBron: "Thank you for leaving me off your Mt. Rushmore."

[QUOTE=chosen_one6]How many people would honestly put Russell on a top 4 Mount Rushmore?

Besides CavaliersFTW's nostalgic, LeBron-hating ass I doubt there'd be a lot of people that would.[/QUOTE]
What? How many people don't have Russell in their top 4 all time?

Russell
Is overrated by titles he was not a dominant force as a player just a very good team player and piece of puzzle.

I started a thread several hours ago;
[QUOTE=Odinn]It's gone too far. And I was thinking about not starting a thread about it. But the following thing must be clear;

[B]LeBron listed the most [U]influential[/U] players to him. Picking Mount Rushmore is more like picking the most influential ones rather than the greatest ones.[/B]

If Shaq declares his Mt. Rushmore I can see him naming Hakeem which Shaq respects the most among all-time great bigs.[/QUOTE]
[B]fpliii[/B] and [B]CavaliersFTW[/B], I respect you guys. But I have to say it, you're just too sensitive in this particular thread.

Tho, I saw some posts of Pointguard via quotes and it's saddening that he just keeps BSing around...

[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Russell
Is overrated by titles he was not a dominant force as a player just a very good team player and piece of puzzle.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm He's arguably the best defensive player of all time. Piece of a puzzle?

[QUOTE=fpliii]Right, and my question is, isn't play without the ball skill-based as well? Doesn't play on the other end give you comparable advantages?

Rebounding and shot-blocking (plus intimidating) is big, but the Celtics teams also played a pressing defense, so he was involved with that in trapping and making sure the path to the rim wasn't available. He'd also come out to the perimeter to defend the Oscars of the world, and would help his teammates by shading onto their men. He'd throw the outlet on the break, and also pass some from the high post. There's also that line about him knowing/playing all 5 positions in each C's play on offense.

He obviously wasn't a great scorer/shooter, but from everything out there he seems extremely skilled without the ball. With the ball he was a smart passer as well.[/QUOTE]
Good one fplii, you made the great point. Have to leave work now. I just moved Russell into my four spot and he might be still climbing.

[QUOTE=Odinn]I started a thread several hours ago;

[B]fpliii[/B] and [B]CavaliersFTW[/B], I respect you guys. But I have to say it, you're just too sensitive in this particular thread.

Tho, I saw some posts of Pointguard via quotes and it's saddening that he just keeps BSing around...[/QUOTE]
I know I'm probably a bit sensitive about this thread, I've tried to avoid Russell threads in particular, but I don't like faulty or weak arguments being made. I [I]do think[/I] there are definitely legitimate anti-Russell arguments to be made, but most people in this thread are trolling, and taking pride in celebrating ignorance.

Just to clarify though, I don't have an issue with LeBron. I do on the other hand take issue with the reaction on this board and other similar forums, piling on Russell and such.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Good one fplii, you made the great point. Have to leave work now. I just moved Russell into my four spot and he might be still climbing.[/QUOTE]
lol I'm not trying to convince you to move him (apologies if it came off that way), I just wanted to try and see where you're coming from. I don't have a GOAT list personally and don't mind where people are coming from so long as they're informed (which you seem to be). Good talk though.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]To say somebody is GOAT, better than Jordan without the ball in his hand is absurd.

Name me an intangible we should imagine Jordan didn't have that Russell did?


Tell me something he did that no other player didn't do. Don't tell me what his team did.

We can't assume to fill in the gaps. That's all I'm saying. In every other sport the greats are the guys who mastered the tool they work with. In life its the same way. Please show me guys who are the best in their sport without the tool they work with and I will say you are right. Its not hard. I will end the conversation. If you can't then ask yourself why are you so gullible for Russell.[/QUOTE]

I never said Russell was better than MJ. So total strawman there...

I said that your narrow definition of skill doesn't give justice to Russell's real impact.

Again I go back to Magic. What would you say to someone arguing that Lebron is better than Magic because Lebron is twice the defender...or that Hakeem is better than Magic because he's 5 times the defender????

You also can't just ignore what Russell's teams did...they are a product of his impact on the floor.

Pretty much all the evidence points to Russell probably being the best defender ever. Think about that please...think about that impact.

We get too caught up in this "mold" that each player has to fit. Hear it all the time about Dirk. How he doesn't fit the "mold" of the traditional pf...who ****ing cares? It's about the true impact a player has.

Again, narrow definition of skill (as if defense/rebounding isn't a skill) and an under-rating of his impact.

Honestly...I can't remember the last time I saw a list that didn't have Russell in the top 5 all time. I don't know where Kobe and Lebron are getting this notion of for sure Magic/Bird in the top 4 either. MJ for sure. Russell for sure. And then personally it's Magic next for me. Then either Wilt/Duncan/Kareem in any order for me...usually you see Kareem in there.

How awkward is it gonna be if LBJ wins a FMVP this year?

[QUOTE=chazzy]:facepalm He's arguably the best defensive player of all time. Piece of a puzzle?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because YOU took the time to study film and analyze his defense, right? :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=TylerOO]How awkward is it gonna be if LBJ wins a FMVP this year?[/QUOTE]
Depends if Bill is still alive by that time..........



That might be a little tasteless.

too much retard

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]I never said Russell was better than MJ. So total strawman there...

I said that your narrow definition of skill doesn't give justice to Russell's real impact.

Again I go back to Magic. What would you say to someone arguing that Lebron is better than Magic because Lebron is twice the defender...or that Hakeem is better than Magic because he's 5 times the defender????

You also can't just ignore what Russell's teams did...they are a product of his impact on the floor.

[B]Pretty much all the evidence points to Russell probably being the best defender ever. Think about that please...think about that impact. [/B]

We get too caught up in this "mold" that each player has to fit. Hear it all the time about Dirk. How he doesn't fit the "mold" of the traditional pf...who ****ing cares? It's about the true impact a player has.

Again, narrow definition of skill (as if defense/rebounding isn't a skill) and an under-rating of his impact.

Honestly...I can't remember the last time I saw a list that didn't have Russell in the top 5 all time. I don't know where Kobe and Lebron are getting this notion of for sure Magic/Bird in the top 4 either. MJ for sure. Russell for sure. And then personally it's Magic next for me. Then either Wilt/Duncan/Kareem in any order for me...usually you see Kareem in there.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and all evidence points to Tyler Hansbrough being an all time great when he plays against weak competition. Turns out, level of competition makes a really big difference. You can appear really good in one ecosystem, but not so good when you enter another.

get raped, Lebron James.

waiting for pauk's essay

[QUOTE=plowking]Whenever Lebron is mentioned you end up looking stupid and more butthurt than Russell. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

yet whenever lebron is shat on, you're there to back him up with ur life - you're equally bad.