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[QUOTE=1987_Lakers][IMG]http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/838/9091playoffsfinalspistolx4.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[B]Back When Handchecking Rules and Real Fauls Where Something Common:applause: [/B]
[B]Back when Powerforwards Had Natural Strength, Could Run and Be Agressive:) [/B]
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[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]And? You are saying they would not use that Line Against the Bulls if it was 1986 Celtics vs 1996 Bulls? The Celtics where forced to Put that Line-Up to SLOW DOWN Hakeeem and Samson which they Succeeded but let me remined you: THEY ALSO SUCCEEDED in DESTROYING the ROCKETS BACKCOURT.:hammerhead: with EFFICIENT Base Linne Shooting with DJ, AINGE, BIRD and WEDMAN
Yes they would use that Line Up :rolleyes:. [U]The Celtics would not try to face the Bulls STRENGTH, Which is the FRONTCOURT: a Faster, more Athletic and Superior in Scoring if the Bulls they decide to put Pippen/Harper and Jordan. They would not Fall in to their GAME OF SUPERIOR BACKOURT of 2 Players [/U].:no:
[U]They would LOOK FOR THE BULLS WEAKNESS which is obviously:
The BULLS 3 FRONTLINE OF (F-PF/C-F AND C) = Which HAS NO SCORING POSSIBILITIES without Kukoc or Pippen:[/U] :hammerhead:
But here is the BULLS Trouble. What would Happen if the Bulls put in Pippen or Kukoc in the Frontline as SFs for Improoving their Scoring Possibilites in the Frontline? The Following:
1-If they use Pippen/Kucok in the FRONTLINE. They would [U]WEAKEN THEIR BACKCOURT CREATIVITY and DEFENSE (in Pippens case) which would Make it Easier for DJ/AINGE and BIRD to SCORE.:hammerhead: [/U]
By Putting in PIPPEn or Kukoc at the SF Position they Not Only Would Weaken their BACKCOURT CREATIVITY, ASSISTING AND SCORING POSSIBILITIES but also they would: [U]WEAKEN their FRONTLINE DEFENSE[/U]. :hammerhead:
Pip was GREAT BASE LINE and 1 on 1 DEFENDER but NOT A GREAT POST DEFNDER AGAINST BIGGER TALLER GUYS (Bird destroyed him in the Post at ages 32 to 34). And Kukoc whom although was Taller at 6`11 ft was an EVEN WEAKER POST DEFENDER. :hammerhead:
It would not be Possilbe for the Bulls to Defend the FRONT LINE without:
ATLEAST 2 CENTER-FORWARD LIKE DUDES of 6-10 ft Plus Presence :confusedshrug: AND ONE VERY STRONG 1 on 1 DEFENDER POWERFORWARD. Which is only RODMAN.
RODMAN will TRY to CONTEND McHALE to Stay Away from the Post (where he has never been succesful) but by doing so he would [U]furthen hismelf from THE REBOUND AREA: Which Would then be an [I]AREA FREE for the domination of PARISH AND WALTON/Kite [/I]Whom Already Dominate the PAINT in SCORING and DEFENDING but NOW THEY WOULD HAVE IT EVEN MOR EASIER IN REBOUNDING (without RODMAN in the Post trying to Stop McHale from Getting Close).[/U].
This would also make it for BIRD to Run in And Get Easier Rebounds. A Player Capable of Averaging 9-10 RPG or more in 1986.
2-Then Again by Putting Pippen at the SF Position, already LOSSING their CREATIVE GAME IN THE FRONTCOUR AND OFCOURSE DEFENSIVE GAME they [U]would be forced to Put in PAXON or KERR to Play at the PG Position. Any one of these would have major trouble trying to Guard a PRIME AINGE and PRIME DJ whom where not Only TALLER but BETTER DEFENDERS whom would Make it Hard not Only for KERR/PAXON to SHOOT but Also to PASS[/U]
If KERR/PAXON would Try Get Off Shots from PICK and ROLLS they would hardly be succesfull because they would be Guarded by SUPERIOR TALLER and STRONGER DEFENDERS in DJ/AINGE and yes the Celtics would have WALTON-PARSIH and McHALE fighting off those Picks WITH the WEAKER BULLS FRONTLINE.
That same Scheme would happen in the Bulls Court.wwhen the Celtics go for the Score, the would have; PARISH/McHALE/WALTON OR KITE SETTING UP THE PICK AND ROLLS but 6`6 1/2 ft Rodman pretty much WOULD BE CONSUMED & CONCENTRATED in STOPING McHALE and NOT LETTING HIM the POST (AWAY from RODMAN`s REBOUNDING AREA). This would make it EASY FOR BIRD to REBOUND and ASSIST PARISH/WALTON-KITE for EASY BASKETS and ocourse with PAXON/KERR playing the PG position, the Picks would help the FASTER, STRONER AND TALLER AINGE/DJ Go on to the Basket for EASIER HIGHER PERCENTAGE SHOTS.
3- IF they Go with the Harper PG and Jordan SG. Then they would Dominate the BACKOURT as if Pippen was there but it would only be PIPPEN or RODMAN (6`6 1/2 ft and 6`7 ft) in the FRONTLINE.
[U]THAT IS WAY TO SMALL TO CONTEND THE CELTICS BIG 3 and ofcourse THEIR BIG LINE UP with PARISH/McHALE and WALTON[/U]
[U]If they bench RODMAN away. They would be Loosing the only GREAT 1 on 1 DEFENDING PERSON in the POST to Guard McHALE and also the ONLY ONE CAPABLE of REBOUNDING OVER THE BIG 3.[/U]
[U]If They sit PIPPEN. Then they WOULD LOOSE THEIR SCORING ABILITIES in the FRONTLINE![/U]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]See? Its a DOUBLE EDGE SWORD!!![/COLOR]
There is No Way the Bulls can Beat the 1986 CELTICS and Their TALL LINE UP and BIG 3-4 with PARISH at CENTER, WALTON as a 2 Center Piece POINT CF, McHALE at PF as the Second Focal Scoring Point, BIRD at mix of SG/SF loose to Create (Assit, Rebound) and Score from both Inside or Outside, Post and Penetrate...Which the Celtics would use = FORCING THE BULLS TO PLAY THEIR CELTICS HALFCOURT/POST UP SLOW PACE GAME
Not Falling in to the BULLS SUPERIOR BACKCOURT GAME.
Lesson:
[COLOR="Red"]Yes a GREAT BACKOURT, Will ALWAYS BEAT AN AVERAGE MEDIOCRE OFFENSIVE FRONTLINE (which is what the Bulls faced in the 90s).[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Indigo"]A GREAT BACKCOURT AND A GREAT SCORING FRONTLINE can Beat Almost Anybody. Yes the 1980s LAKERS![/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]A GREAT FRONTLINE (BIG 3) will ALWAYS BEAT A GREAT BACKCOURT (2)
A GREAT SLOW PACE/POST UP/HIGH SCORING FG% FRONTLINE TEAM, WILL ALWAYS BEAT A GREAT BACKCOURT...
...Proof: What Just Happened in the 2008 NBA FINALS that we Just Saw.[/COLOR]:hammerhead:
And Let me Remined you that NOT ONLY WOULD THE CELTICS HAVE A SUPERIOR FRONTELINE AND BIG 3 with PARISH/McHALE/WALTON-KITE and BIRD but also a Tough BACKCOURT with DJ-AINGE and BIRD HIMSELF ALTERNATING the SG and SF Position when they PUT IN THEIR TALL LINE UP OF:
PARISH 7`0 FT (15-19 PPG 55-58% FG, 10-12 RPG, 2.5 BPG)
McHALE 6`10 ft POST SCORING MASTER (19-26 PPG 57-60% FG, 8-9 RPG, 2-2.5 BPG)
WALTON 6`11 POINT-CENTER-FORWARD (capable still of getting 15 ppg, 10 rpg. He averaged 7.6 PPG, 6.8 RPG and 1.3 BPG [U]in JUST 19 MPG in 85-86[/U])
KITE 6-11 ft and 250 lbs CF (BAD WHITE BOY: DEFENDER AND REBOUNDER whom would Chalange RODMAN in parts of the Game)
Who Would be Alternating that SG and SF Position?
BIRD = GREATEST SMALLFORWARD EVER. Yes, A TRIPLE DOUBLE MAN capable of putting these numbers in the Play-Offs = 25/30 PPG, 10-14 RPG and 6-8 ASPG at age 29 before His Back Problems (1989) and WAS THE THE CLUTCHES PERFOMER EVER, ALONG WITH MAGIC. THE 2 PLAYERS CAPABLE OF MAKING THEIR TEAMATEST BETTER THAN ANY
NO CONTEST :confusedshrug: [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not KC Jones and you're not KC Jones so all your talk of would is foolish nobody knows what the coach would do. All your talk would never convince me that a team that gave its starters over 30 minutes per game for an entire season would suddenly change to a different lineup makes no sense.
Double post.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Just because they didn't make the Finals doesn't mean they shouldn't be discussed. They still had 3 HOFers.:roll:
I'm sorry but the Celtics and Lakers bench players were former All stars, DPOY, and former MVPs.
Kevin McHale: Celtics 6th man 1981-1984. HOF player
Michael Cooper: 1987 DPOY
Bob McAdoo: 5 time all star. 1975 NBA MVP. HOF
Mychal Thompson: 1st pick of the 1978 NBA Draft. 20/10 player in '82.
Bill Walton: 1978 NBA MVP. 1986 Sixth Man. HOF
Scott Wedman: 1 time NBA All Star
To even compare guys like Tonu Kukoc, Steve Kerr, and Brian Williams to the Celtics-Lakers bench is laughable. :roll
That was seriously one of the dumbest arguments i've ever heard.[/QUOTE]
kevin mchale was a starter in 86
ill give you coop
mcadoo was old and washed up in 85 and wasnt on the 87 lakers (which team are you arguing for 85 86 87 88 you keep jumping around)
mychal thompson was solid in 87-88 as a bench player
same with walton
same with wedman
the 97 bulls players were all in their primes and the best players on other teams and came to the bulls to play a role.
but you gave me 6 bench players on 4 different teams, i gave you 3 bench players on 1 team. let me help you.
the 87 lakers main bench players were thompson, coop, and rambis
the 85 lakers main bench players were mcadoo, wilkes, coop
the 86 celtics main bench players were wedman, walton, sichting
[QUOTE=Loki]LOL @ Pippen being "very close" to Bird. :oldlol: There are only about 7-8 players in history who you could say that about, and Pippen is not only not one of them, he's not anywhere near the conversation.[/QUOTE]
like ive stated before, when basketball is only played on 1 side of the ball ill agree with people like you and 87 lakers. but since you have to play defense too and pippen is regarded as one of the top 3 perimeter defenders ever and could score and rebound etc. im sayn their close with an advantage to bird and his ability to make clutch baskets. even though i would pick pippen over bird every day of the week and twice on sunday if i needed a defensive stop.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]I'd put him in the top 5 with MJ, Magic, Wilt, and Kareem. And he is without a doubt the greatest SF of all time.
Pippen on the other hand might not be a top 5 SF. I have Bird, Havlicek, Barry, Baylor, and Erving ahead of Pippen.[/QUOTE]
and you know whats funny about your list of top 5 alltime SFs? everyone of those guys would not put up the numbers they put up if they were playing second to jordan. not to mention, pippen is closer to those guys in scoring than than they are to pippen defensively and thats 50 % of the game. i would say that pip is about 80 percent the scorer those players are as a second option playing in a structured offense and a slower tempo. and all those players are about 60 percent of pip defensively.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]like ive stated before, when basketball is only played on 1 side of the ball ill agree with people like you and 87 lakers. but since you have to play defense too and pippen is regarded as one of the top 3 perimeter defenders ever and could score and rebound etc. im sayn their close with an advantage to bird and his ability to make clutch baskets. even though i would pick pippen over bird every day of the week and twice on sunday if i needed a defensive stop.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I would have to disagree with you. Put prime Pippen in place of Bird on the Celtics, and they probably never win a title. Put prime Bird in place of Pippen on the Bulls, and they never lose more then 10 games a year, and they might still win the title that year Jordan retired. Defense is more about the structure of the team, and I think its much harder to be a great offensive player then great defensive player. If you really think Pippen is close to Bird, would you say Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier are close to as valuable as Carmelo Anthony or Steve Nash? Cause there's probably about 30 head coaches in the league that would say no.
[QUOTE=guy]Sorry I would have to disagree with you. Put prime Pippen in place of Bird on the Celtics, and they probably never win a title. Put prime Bird in place of Pippen on the Bulls, and they never lose more then 10 games a year, and they might still win the title that year Jordan retired. Defense is more about the structure of the team, and I think its much harder to be a great offensive player then great defensive player. If you really think Pippen is close to Bird, would you say Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier are close to as valuable as Carmelo Anthony or Steve Nash? Cause there's probably about 30 head coaches in the league that would say no.[/QUOTE]
to answer your bowen battier question NO, although in bowens case if you can take the other teams best scorer and make him a volume shooter or virtually non-existant id say thats equal to a player scoring 25 points .
not to mention in all sports the better defensive team almost always win out in the end. look at new england and new york in the super bowl. look at the lakers and celtics, or how about san antonio and phoenix. and i dont agree that bird instead of pippen on those bulls helps against magic in 91, or kevin jhnson in 93 or peyton or mark jackson. even when pippen wasnt defending those guys it was like he was because of his ability to hinder an oppositions offensive scheme. and its definately harder to be a great defensive player than offensive player. for every 1 great defensive player you name ill give you six offensive players scoring 20 or more points a night. offense is more glamerous. a good coach will say that the object of basketball is to score more than the opponent a championship coach will tell you that the object is to keep the opponent from scoring more than you.
[QUOTE=97 bulls]kevin mchale was a starter in 86
ill give you coop
mcadoo was old and washed up in 85 and wasnt on the 87 lakers (which team are you arguing for 85 86 87 88 you keep jumping around)
mychal thompson was solid in 87-88 as a bench player
same with walton
same with wedman
the 97 bulls players were all in their primes and the best players on other teams and came to the bulls to play a role.
but you gave me 6 bench players on 4 different teams, i gave you 3 bench players on 1 team. let me help you.
the 87 lakers main bench players were thompson, coop, and rambis
the 85 lakers main bench players were mcadoo, wilkes, coop
the 86 celtics main bench players were wedman, walton, sichting[/QUOTE]
Steve Kerr was nothing more than a shooter. And Brian Williams only played 9 games all year for the '97 Bulls. and only averaged 6 PPG during the playoffs. Those guys don't compare to Cooper, McAdoo, & Thompson.
McAdoo might of been past his prime by 1985 but he was still putting up over 10 PPG while shooting over 50% FG.
Let me take u back to tha 90s tha best decade, that's whea tha real ballers played, whea greats like mj did his thang, had dummies going tha other way, and tha knicks went to tha finals twice, how mj had 6 rings, and made mark price pay tha price, many many times, hakeem finally got that piece of tha pie, tha beginning of kobe and ai, and how tha spurs beat tha knicks that brought tears to my eyes, when miller always shine in tha due or die, and when shaq's fat ass broke tha glass, 90s was a blast!
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Steve Kerr was nothing more than a shooter. And Brian Williams only played 9 games all year for the '97 Bulls. and only averaged 6 PPG during the playoffs. Those guys don't compare to Cooper, McAdoo, & Thompson.
McAdoo might of been past his prime by 1985 but he was still putting up over 10 PPG while shooting over 50% FG.[/QUOTE]
id pick a 28 year old williams over an old mcadoo. and that all kerr needed to do was shoot. that was his job and thats what they paid him to do. and he was great at it. and yeah he was puting up those numbers in a faster pace league normalize it to 90s pace and it probably about 5 ppg.
[QUOTE=willds09]Let me take u back to tha 90s tha best decade, that's whea tha real ballers played, whea greats like mj did his thang, had dummies going tha other way, and tha knicks went to tha finals twice, how mj had 6 rings, and made mark price pay tha price, many many times, hakeem finally got that piece of tha pie, tha beginning of kobe and ai, and how tha spurs beat tha knicks that brought tears to my eyes, when miller always shine in tha due or die, and when shaq's fat ass broke tha glass, 90s was a blast![/QUOTE]
funny
[QUOTE=willds09]Let me take u back to tha 90s [B]tha[/B] best decade, that's [B]whea[/B] tha real ballers played, [B]whea[/B] greats like mj did his [B]thang[/B], had dummies going [B]tha[/B] other way, and tha knicks went to [B]tha[/B] finals twice, how mj had 6 rings, and made mark price pay [B]tha[/B] price, many many times, hakeem finally got that piece of tha pie, tha beginning of kobe and ai, and how tha spurs beat tha knicks that brought tears to my eyes, when miller always shine in tha due or die, and when shaq's fat ass broke tha glass, 90s was a blast![/QUOTE]
ENGLISH MOTHER ****ER! DO YOU SPEAK IT!?!?!?!?!
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