Draft day, free agency, training camp, pre season...

[QUOTE]Your point that more Cs will be 3 point shooters moving forward is a good, solid point! IDK if there will be enough 5-out teams to make Rudy’s interior D significantly less valuable in a few years than it is now. But it’s at least a thing JZ and DL will need to think thru with any Rudy extension talk.
*(Which was also the point: Jokic is a below-average 3point shooter who operates best at the elbow/in the paint. We took away his strength to force him/Den to beat us with something that isn’t his strength. And Jokic responded by being an elite 3-point shooter in the playoffs. Props to him! But that was a smart plan…one that almost led to a playoff sweep for us.)

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/l3uddyh011y"]l3uddyh011y[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345243"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:11 AM[/URL]
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teams appear to be getting bigger again if anything

[QUOTE]I also wonder if the contract won’t have incentives built in. Something like 5 years at 150 but if you are an all star or DPOY then you get a bonus of say 3-5 million that year.
That makes sure he performs to get that added value

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345773"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:27 AM[/URL]
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that's what they should be looking at. He should get more than Mitchell or any other team can offer. Put in bonuses to get the deal done if need be

[QUOTE] I think Gobert is not as good in the playoffs and as the jazz are now at probable contenders stage of things, this is something to really consider.
That said, I think the Jazz will pay him what ever he wants. With Gobert and Mitchell the jazz are potential contenders, though probably flawed because of the limits to Gobert’s game, but without Gobert, they are not in any way contenders. They have been working at this since they drafted Hayward 10 something years ago, and have gradually been climbing the mountain and are now within sight of the summit. If they don’t sign Gobert they slide half way down the mountain again. Both Gobert and Mitchell tuning out to be elite was lucky. There’s no guarantee that hitting on late draft picks will happen again, and its really unlikely the jazz will get a high pick for a long time.
So I think they will give into Gobert and try to make it work. Odds are favorable they will be (flawed) contenders for 4-5 years. If they get rid of Gobert, the odds they will be contenders anytime over the next ten years go way down.
One thing to remember is Conley comes off the books next year and opens up a big salary hole. Also, probably shouldn’t have signed Ingles for so much. Also, a good team built around Mitchell (but no Gobert) might be attractive to another top 10 free agent.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/BoufantPuffydoo"]BoufantPuffydoo[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534351377"]Dec 11, 2020 | 12:51 PM[/URL]
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they aren't a contender and they are a lottery team without Rudy. They are flawed because Mitchell plays one end ineffeciently. How would they get another free agent? Sign and trade for Clarkson?

[QUOTE]Major Luxury tax issues next season!

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534352299"]Dec 11, 2020 | 1:16 PM[/URL]
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which is why it's stupid to pay it this year for this team


[QUOTE][B]Am I the only one that see the limits to DM's game as more obvious than the limits to Gobert's game?[/B]


Every player has limitations. People criticize Rudy because he can’t do what Mitchell does, but nobody criticizes Mitchell for not being able to do what Rudy does.
They are both very good players, and perfectly complimentary. Mitchell needs a teammate exactly like Gobert, and Gobert needs a teammate exactly like Mitchell.
Yeah, it would be nice if Rudy could develop a 10-ft jumper and improve his passing. It would also be nice if Mitchell could improve his shot selection, efficiency, defense, and be a more willing passer.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534354713"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:39 PM[/URL]
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someone gets it. Without Rudy they suck. Without Mitchell they are still competitive

[QUOTE]Rudy is at the top defensively while just average on the offensive end.
The value from the NBA would be around $30M at best for Rudy IMO.
For the Jazz though he is worth more.
Being eligible for the Supermax does not mean being worth the supermax. Rudy is a limited player, but very important to the Jazz.
To me he is just like Donovan who received a "Max" (Rookie@25%) deal. Given Rudy’s deal at the max level would be at 30%, which is 5% more than DM. Rudy at the Max would be $190M/5yrs plus any incentives.
I still think that’s too much for the center position put not sure if the Jazz can get away any cheaper.
That’s paying Rudy $43M in his 5th year. That seems obscene.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534351640"]Dec 11, 2020 | 12:58 PM[/URL]
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1 of the best offensive players in the game

[QUOTE]Rudy might not be the most [I]skilled offensive player on the team, but he is easily the most [I]valuable offensive player on the team.[/I][/I]

[I][I]Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534355048"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:54 PM[/URL][/I][/I]
[/QUOTE]

this guy gets it!

[QUOTE][B]If he isn’t interested in a much cheaper contract[/B]


Deal him away. I honestly don’t like his attitude anyways. He sulks too much.
We have Favors who can start at Center. Azubuike who is our future Center in reserve.
Plus we should be able to pull in a ton of assets in a trade. Young players and draft picks.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Matt_Grbac"]Matt_Grbac[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341628"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:34 AM[/URL]

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Tanking! They aren't getting much in a trade. They aren't winning with Favors

[QUOTE]Rudy might be miffed since Mitchell’s deal is 5/163 (maybe 5/195), and he might be insisting on at least the low end of Donovan’s contract, but even a 5/150 would still show over a quarter-billion dollar total investment by the Jazz over Rudy’s two long-term contracts, so hopefully Gobert recognizes both the enormity of that financial commitment and the competitive repercussions of insisting on more.
I’m not optimistic though. I see this being contentious past the deadline. I guess we’ll see.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Korumbian"]Korumbian[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341960"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:45 AM[/URL]
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Why should he consider taking less than a guy that has yet to do what Rudy did 6 years ago? Rudy already took a discount on his last contract despite doing a lot more than Mitchell has to get his potential super max

[QUOTE]The pick of Azubuike and Favors’ three year deal (together) only make sense to me if the Jazz are planning for Rudy’s potential departure.
The moves tell me that they do not plan to offer the full supermax, and that they believe Rudy may demand more than they want to offer.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/I'mJazzed"]I'mJazzed[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534342054"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:47 AM[/URL]
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Udoka made sense regardless. Favors spotting up from 3 doesn't unless Rudy is gone and than they need to look to trade all their old guys anyway and start gathering assets
[QUOTE]That is why I would only offer a 4 year max deal at just north of 30 million. That basically means he replaces Conleys contract next year and Mitchell slots into Goberts. So the Jazz still have a full cap and need a replacement at pg near the minimum. Mitchell can take that spot. But then you need Need a backup still.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534344770"]Dec 11, 2020 | 9:56 AM[/URL]
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Hopefully they can get takers for Bojan, Ingles, Clarkson, Favors contracts if anything

[QUOTE]Ingle’s contract is not aging well.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Palmetto%20Bug"]Palmetto Bug[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345207"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:09 AM[/URL]
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wasn't when they extended it. Typical Jazz move

[QUOTE]We might see a solid above average year from ingles. His game doesn’t rely on quickness so I don’t see age being much of a factor.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345925"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:31 AM[/URL]
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He's declined the part two years

[QUOTE]And a single year contract for a guy is tradeable if needed for either a longer contract from someone looking for short term flexibility or by throwing in a second rounder or two.
I am not too worried.
The west is stacked this year at pg/sg with Curry, Harden, Lillard, Booker, George, and Doncic. Unless Mitchell has a full season like the playoffs I don’t see the super max kicking in meaning his salary would be about 33 million a year in that scenario.
That is a good aim for Gobert too.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534348071"]Dec 11, 2020 | 11:26 AM[/URL]
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continuing to trade picks to get rid of bad deals isn't a good strategy

[QUOTE]Last season was a down year for Ingles and the best season of Clarkson’s career, and Ingles was still more valuable.
Ingles is a better shooter, gets a lot more steals, and about 2.5x more assists. Ingles also has better advanced stats (OWS, DWS, Total WS, VORP). Clarkson has a better BPM, helped by the fact that he played with the bench.
I wonder if all of the negativity about Ingles is due to his poor playoff showing, but the bubble was weird and a very small sample size.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534354398"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:26 PM[/URL]
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but Clarkson sucks. Ingles has declined the past two years

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade[/url]

[QUOTE]The Jazz and the Bucks are in inverse situations. The Bucks would love nothing more than to give Giannis the supermax any day, Utah is doing everything they can to get a contract as far away from the supermax while still keeping Rudy in Utah.


[/QUOTE]

and if they're trying to pay him less than Mitchell or what other teams can pay him than he needs to say no

[QUOTE]Gobert is an elite, all-nba force and he deserves a BIG contract but, and it’s a huge but, if Utah gives him that money they are putting a hard ceiling on what the team is now and in the near future. Utah has also designed everything they do around Gobert’s strengths. So if things fall apart with Gobert midway through the contract it’s almost certainly untradable because he won’t fit as seamlessly with other teams. On top of that the center position is one of the most undervalued in the league right now. Considering the chemistry issues last season, these are real concerns.


[/QUOTE]

they've already capped out on what they can do with the current roster and their future payments to them. No contract is untradeable as we continue to see


[QUOTE]Now, it could be that the ceiling for the Jazz is the western conference finals, or maybe even beyond. The Jazz will find that out this season.


[/QUOTE]

We've already found it. Going back in time with Favors again doesn't change that

[QUOTE]It’s looking like December 21st is a big day for the Jazz. By December 22nd we’ll know if Gobert is going to be on the Jazz for a long while or if the Jazz might be looking for some sort of move. One thing is for sure, going through another Hayward situation is out of the question. This Christmas is going to be a unique one for sure.



[/QUOTE]

Not comparable. Rudy is without a doubt the 3rd most important member of the organization ever. Hayward was a 2nd fiddle as is everyone's darling Mitchell

[QUOTE][B]Too much[/B]


Giving Rudy anything more than a regular max is a mistake and I’m glad the FO has taken a hard stance on this. In fact, I think the target is just below a regular max.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/J-Note"]J-Note[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534339782"]Dec 11, 2020 | 7:42 AM[/URL]

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As long as tanking is your thing. He is the franchise as we've seen before he emerged and the 3 times he missed a month

[QUOTE]Rudy at the max is 30% of Salary cap. Donovan’s Rookie max is 25%, so Rudy’s ego shouldn’t be hurt.
My Rudy extension would look like this (Same for 3yrs then declining);
Year 1 $32.8M+Incentives
Year 2 $32.8M+Incentives
Year 3 $32.8M+Incentives
Year 4 $30.3M+Incentives
Year 5 $27.5M+Incentives (Team option, partially guaranteed)
Equaling: $ 156.2 +Incentives

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534353990"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:08 PM[/URL]
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Mitchell could get supermax. No way would I take less than what Mitchell could potentially get

[QUOTE][B]Even $133 Mil is too much[/B]


Rudy Gobert is one of the most underrated players in the league, but you have to be at least top 10 to even think about a supermax. In my opinion not even all of those players are worth that much money. And Gobert is not top 10. That said, Rudy is a great player and extremely valuable to the Jazz, but I think somewhere on the order of 4 years $100 million would be best for both sides and accurately reflects Rudy’s value.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/PianoGuy13"]PianoGuy13[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341017"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:18 AM[/URL]
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highly debatable. Not many guys carry their teams at both ends of the floor

[QUOTE][B]I don’t either[/B]


I just think that would be ideal. And I agree about Rudy needing to feel valued. I truly think Gobert will end up with the regular max, and his agent is just waiting until the last second to make sure the Jazz really won’t offer more. No sense in rushing into things.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/PianoGuy13"]PianoGuy13[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341532"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:32 AM[/URL]

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than he should leave and go to a franchise that is serious about winning

[QUOTE][URL="https://www.nba.com/jazz/utah-jazz-sign-trevon-bluiett"]The Utah Jazz announced today that the team has signed guard Trevon Bluiett[/URL].
– via [URL="https://www.nba.com/jazz/utah-jazz-sign-trevon-bluiett"]NBA.com[/URL]



[/QUOTE]

I could see him on the roster and even fighting for those last rotation minutes. Not sure why you wouldn't just have him in camp to start

[url]https://www.ksl.com/article/50065131/everybody-loves-fav-even-derrick-favors-new-jazz-teammates-are-excited-to-have-him-in-utah[/url]

[QUOTE]"You're reminded as a coach of really why you do this: to have a chance to go through the good and the bad times with someone that you rely on and trust," Quin Snyder said. "And that's a special part of the job, and I think it's unique to team sports."


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the fact that you trust Favors spotting up for 3 in the corner is reason enough as to why you shouldn't be the coach

[QUOTE]With Favors returning to fill the backup center role — a role the Jazz didn't quite realize the importance of until he left — the debate over whether or not he and Gobert can play together shouldn't need to begin again. The same can be said about the persistent trade rumors that followed Favors during his first stint in Utah. But it didn't take long for those to be hinted at once again.


[/QUOTE]

I think they realized how important it was. They spent their money last year on Ed Davis instead of a starting 4

[QUOTE][URL="https://theathletic.com/2241657/2020/12/10/hollinger-2020-21-jazz-preview-lineup-predictions-and-rudy-goberts-future/"]In a season preview[/URL] in The Athletic, John Hollinger (who was critical of the move to bring back Favors) did write "Favors was the best available player in free agency and thus could have trade value in-season." When Snyder said things felt normal, he probably wasn't referring to that. But Favors' teammates, both the old and the new, think things will work just fine.


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Hollinger seems to get it. Believe he's the one that said Shaq was their best move

[QUOTE]"I mean, I think that he's gonna be great for us," Bogdanovic said. "His basketball IQ is pretty high, he's got playoff experience which is most important for us … and he's going to give us depth to play either with the two bigs or helping the second unit. So I'm happy that he's here with us and I think that he's gonna be a big part of what we are doing."


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the two bigs part sounds good except for Favors spotting up in the corner for 3

[QUOTE]Clarkson could be one of the biggest beneficiaries of Favors' return. He'll now have an experienced screener and pick-and-roll man to play with in the second unit. That should make life a little easier for the guard who had to do most of the heavy lifting on the second unit last season.


[/QUOTE]

like Clarkson wants a screen! :roll:

[QUOTE]"He's a great screen setter so I know he'll get me open," Clarkson said. "I know he's able to catch, finish and make plays, so he's definitely a big factor of this second unit and this team. Excited to play with him, excited to run him, just glad that he's here."


[/QUOTE]

He had the best screen setter Rudy on the floor with him in the bubble yet Rudy, Mitchell and Conley stood around watching #1 option Clarkson go 1 on 5

Wish everybody had loved Millsap as much as they love Favors. Might have done something special

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22171339/utah-jazz-open-nba-preseason-against-the-phoenix-suns[/url]

[QUOTE]According to the Jazz Mike Conley and Royce O’neale will be out for rest and Shaq Harrison is still nursing a broken right hand.


[/QUOTE]

Figured Bojan might be out. Royce must be the other one with the Trump virus

[QUOTE]Are we going to see players moving well within the system? Utah has made very little adjustments to the main components of the roster. And adding Derrick Favors means they have a player already familiar with Quin Snyder and his systems.


[/QUOTE]

you mean besides Clarkson?

[QUOTE]Do we get to see the rookies play?


[/QUOTE]
I imagine with the 3rd unit for a bit late

[QUOTE]For a #27 pick and a #39 pick there’s a good amount of hype. Some of that comes from typical fanaticism but some of that also comes from a 2020 [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba-draft"]NBA draft[/URL] that was remarkably deep.


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most of it comes from Udoka sounding like he could be a bigger Rudy and Hughes getting guaranteed money for two years while Tucker was traded and Brantley is back on a two way

[QUOTE]Utah made a surprise pick at #27 picking Udoka Azubuike. Fans were surprised because they passed on other well esteemed players that were available at that spot like Desmond Bane or Xavier Tillman. It may be another example of the front office knowing better than fans with some of the reports out of camp.


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center was what they needed so he seems to make perfect sense. Hughes instead of a 1 not so much. Want to see the Rubio wannabe

[QUOTE]Azubuike has a chance to turn heads, and he needs to if he wants to see any playing time. The Jazz have said that they plan on having Derrick Favors play mostly backup center which means that Azubuike will have to leapfrog Favors to get regular minutes. That is very unlikely. More likely is that we see Azubuike get big minutes in the preseason and then in the regular season get occasional minutes when the Jazz have games where they use a Favors/Gobert front court. Against a team like the [URL="https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/"]Los Angeles Lakers[/URL], for example.


[/QUOTE]

doubt he gets big minutes except in the bubble with the Stars and if Rudy is traded

[QUOTE]So for Jazz fans, tonight is a big chance to see Azubuike in action. Does he surprise with his size and athleticism? Let’s hope so because it was definitely a surprise pick and Utah had other options at that spot.


[/QUOTE]

sounds like the best option

[QUOTE]This will also be a chance to see #39 pick Elijah Hughes. Hughes comes with a polished offensive game. His defense is a bit of a question mark because he comes from playing a zone at Syracuse. So tonight should be fun to see how he plays with the Jazz. Hughes has a lot of tools to be excited about. Normally I wouldn’t expect much from a #39 pick but there are reasons to be excited about the potential with Hughes. He has nice size (he’s listed as 6”6’) and his jumpshot looks like it will translate nicely to the NBA. He also looks like he has a strong frame (listed at 215 lbs.)


[/QUOTE]

wingspan isn't much and he didn't hit the 3 in college

[QUOTE]I still think the Jazz team is weak at the PF position. The Jazz doesn’t have much money or assets available to sign a free agent PF or trade for a PF on another team’s roster. However, I think that a roster slot used for developing a stretch-4 player would be much better utilized—both for the present and the future—than a roster slot being used on Nigel Williams-Goss, who is effectively the 7th-string point guard for the Jazz (behind Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Harrison, Clarkson and Forrest).
Skal Labissierre is still available as a free agent. He’s a player with 4 years of NBA experience, so his vet minimum salary would be the same as Harrison’s salary—$1,678,854—only $160,873 more than the current salary of Williams-Goss ($1,517,981). He has all the attributes to become a good stretch-4 PF, but still needs some development, whereas he has not played that much in his first four years in the NBA. He is tall, long, athletic, and has a nice shooting stroke. He also has nimble feet and shotblocking ability. His weaknesses are strength and motor. He would be an ideal project player to attempt to groom as a stretch-4 PF. He basically has the size and length of center, but will probably never have the strength and toughness to bang in the post. However, as a PF, he would not need to be as strong and tough, and has the skill set to become a good stretch-4 PF who can also play some defense and get rebounds.
That is the one tweak of the Jazz roster I would still like to for the upcoming season.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22171339/utah-jazz-open-nba-preseason-against-the-phoenix-suns#534387943"]Dec 12, 2020 | 2:29 PM[/URL]
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No starting 4 other than Favors spotting up for 3 is pretty weak eh? They are already developing Brantley and Morgan! Goss isn't behind Forrest and shouldn't be behind a guy that won't pass. He's a good pg. Not sure if he's an NBA pg. I like Skal but again is he better than the guys they have? They need a starter not another young guy.

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan[/url]

[QUOTE]Let’s be pretty clear - with the signing of Shaquille Harrison, Nigel Williams-Goss is highly likely to be cut, given their overlapping positions and Williams-Goss’ non-guaranteed contract. Justin Wright-Foreman, despite a G-League All-Star award, was not offered another two-way contract, so he may or may not choose to stay in the Jazz organization given the glut of players ahead of him. And, Rayjon Tucker was traded to the Cavs, who waived him; he’ll see action as part of the Clippers.


[/QUOTE]

They have the roster space so they can carry Goss. Be interesting to see if Forman plays with the Stars

[QUOTE]Harrison also eats into Miye Oni’s playing time. Oni has been mentioned as a potential contributor as a perimeter defender, with a dangerous enough outside shot, which also happened to be Harrison’s role on the Bulls the last two years. While Oni hasn’t been able to really show his abilities at the NBA level, he did beat out all of the other draftees for the final roster spot last year, and has shown that he can play as a ball-handler in the Jazz system in the G-League, with excellent shooting, rebounds, and assists.


[/QUOTE]

remains to be seen if Harrison will be ahead of any of these guys. Oni didn't shoot great to start the year. Horrible in fact

[QUOTE]Juwan Morgan and Jarrell Brantley both fulfill the-end-of-bench four-spot role. Behind Bojan Bogdanovic, Georges Niang, and the occasional minutes Royce O’Neale, Joe Ingles, and Derrick Favors will play at the spot, it’s unlikely that Morgan or Brantley will have much of a direct impact. However, it is worth mentioning that the Jazz looked particularly stable in the playoffs with Morgan starting, losing Game 1 in overtime and absolutely blowing out the Nuggets in Game 2 (small sample size, I know, I know). His Game 1 plus minus was a team +17; Niang was the next highest at +3 (though single-game plus-minus statistics should always be taken with a huge grain of salt). But with no one on the team able to truly match up with the forward mismatches along the likes of Lebron, Kevin Durant, and Kawhi Leonard, we may see Morgan play crucial minutes to reduce the workload that rests upon Royce and to a lesser extent Bojan and Jingles - Coach Quin clearly trusted him enough to start him and double his role in the playoffs.


[/QUOTE]

Brantley and Morgan should both be in the mix for the minutes. The open roster space ideally will remain flexible if they need to convert Brantley into a regular deal at some point

[QUOTE]Brantley is also a candidate for a bigger role. Brantley’s G-League numbers smell a little bit like Draymond Green’s, and with similar physical profiles, it would be excellent for him to gain experience at a higher level to develop into a Draymond-like player. It’s clear he dominates at a lower level, also having been selected as a G-League All-Star this past season, but NBA level performance can only come with experience and exposure. It is notable that Brantley is still on a two-way contract, so his time with the main team is still limited only 45 days across the season. With a more compressed season, his number may be called more often.


[/QUOTE]

He can be with the team more this year and again with their flexibility roster wise they shouldn't be worried about that

[QUOTE][h=4]I'm not sure why the Jazz is so enamored with playing Georges Niang as the team's primary backup PF this season, even though he is an excellent 3-point shooter.[/h]
He’s about the same size and has almost identical physical characteristics to that of Kyle Korver, who has never been considered to be a PF by any NBA management team. I’m guessing the only reason the Jazz want to play Niang at PF is because he’s even slower than Korver, and therefore, doesn’t have the minimum level of quickness to effectively guard NBA small forwards or guards. The problem with Niang playing the PF position is that he also doesn’t have the size, athleticism or physicality to effectively guard PFs or centers (or to effectively rebound against them)—even the smaller, less-physical ones. He’s basically a "tweener" in this NBA era when the word "tweener" is a dirty word, and the phrase "position-less basketball" is all the vogue.
I’m not saying that Niang still doesn’t have considerable value for the Jazz. In the right scenario, if Niang can come into the game for a few minutes, and nail 3 or 4 3-point shots in a row (which he has done on occasion)—without being a terrible liability on the defensive end—he can be a true difference maker for the Jazz. However, I think the Jazz need to carefully pick and choose the type of situations where Niang plays. If he comes into the game, gets 3 or 4 shots on offense, but only scores 4-5 points on those 3 or 4 shots, and then gives up 6 or 8 points on the defensive end, that doesn’t help the Jazz. He’s the type of player who can help a team win by his great shooting, or can help a team lose, if his shooting is a little off and he gets skewered on the defensive end by a bad defensive matchup. Therefore, his game isn’t really suited for him to be a regular rotation player as the 2nd string PF, in my opinion. Even Juwan Morgan—who really hasn’t yet really shown a high level of NBA talent—seems much better suited for that role. Perhaps Jarrell Brantley—who has shown flashes of NBA talent—will be able to play backup PF for the Jazz, even though he’s a bit undersized for the position (though not nearly as undersized as Niang).
My only disappointment of Jazz management in the off season is that management has been content to bring back the same assortment of pieces-who-don’t-quite-fit in order to man the backup PF position.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan#534390984"]Dec 12, 2020 | 3:32 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

remains to be seen if Niang plays ahead of them. Brantley has a 7'2 wingspan and a big body. He's hardly undersized! Would have been disappointing if they didn't bring back some of the 6 rookies. Made no sense to carry them unless they really saw something in them

[QUOTE]We have two very good PF’s:
Bogey and Favors.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan#534391912"]Dec 12, 2020 | 3:56 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE]I really don’t understand the hesitancy to have 10 minutes a game with Derrick and Rudy on the floor together.
They were positive before and now the Jazz have better shooters so I want to see it!
No O’Neale tonight

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan#534394430"]Dec 12, 2020 | 5:16 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

They have better shooters because they are wide open. With Favors man leaving him they won't be!

[QUOTE]Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Utah Jazz coach Quin Snyder said he wants to see a lot of the concepts the Jazz established in the bubble translate to tonight’s preseason opener. The Jazz want to play faster[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder: with how many shooters we have, it makes sense to take more shots[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




Ben Anderson: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Derrick Favors won’t start tonight according to Quin Snyder[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/BensHoops"]Twitter BensHoops[/URL]




Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder: our team is very different from a year and a half ago when we had Rudy and Fav (Derrick Favors). Spacing is important to us and with fav and rudy the space is different….and that’s ok[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder: Derrick has been terrific playing the five (center)…his rim protection has been terrific with our second unit[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




[/QUOTE]

Nothing about D is worrisome. Scoring points wasn't a concern though with Favors spotting up for 3 it might be

Based on the that game I'd start Morgan. O'Neale off the bench at the 4 and wing. No Favors from the corner was a relief. Clarkson wasn't as bad as he can be. Niang should still be ahead of Oni for the 10th spot until Shaq enters the equation. Goss can't be cut so easily! Not sure if he can defend in the NBA still. Hughes looked good. He isn't shy but at least no Clarkson yet. Forrest looked good too. Can they teach him to shoot?

[url]https://kslsports.com/448530/new-old-faces-flourish-in-jazz-preseason-win/[/url]

[QUOTE]Though Favors and Gobert never shared the floor, the backup big man did see time with Bogdanovic and second-year forward Juwan Morgan.


[/QUOTE]

Bojan isn't a big line up. You have to play big

[QUOTE]While Morgan and Favors stand just 6’8, they bring much-needed length and physicality to the team’s rotation.


[/QUOTE]

You mean Bojan? He's not long and physical. They kept saying Morgan was undersized. Don't know his wingspan but he looks and plays like a 4 despite his height

[QUOTE]Guard Miye Oni brought additional length in his defense against Suns star Devin Booker. Oni played 25 minutes, and though he scored just three points on 1-6 shooting, he proved to be a valuable body on the defensive end.


[/QUOTE]

got to hit shots though![CENTER][/CENTER]

[url]https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2020/12/12/triple-team-jazz-open/[/url]

[QUOTE]That’s a step forward for a guy who has already made big strides in the number of threes he takes. As a rookie, Clarkson only shot one of every five looks from beyond the arc. That’s steadily improved, now it’s about 47% of his looks. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Clarkson get over 50% of his shots from behind the arc this year. And that’s a good thing: it opens up space for others, keeps Clarkson efficient, and reduces some of the folly of his other midrange attempts.



[/QUOTE]

space for others to watch Clarkson go 1 on 5?

[QUOTE]Without a summer league, there’s been precious little opportunity to evaluate some of the players at the end of the roster. In particular, it’s been a shame not to be able to give time and coaching opportunity to guys like Udoka Azuibuike, Elijah Hughes, Miye Oni, Jarrell Brantley, Juwan Morgan, Trent Forrest, and Nigel Williams-Goss a chance to show what they can do.



[/QUOTE]

Tucker and Wright Forman as well as some of the Stars and guys that are now on Exhibit 10's

[QUOTE]Oni looked poised to gain a back-of-rotation spot going into the regular season, but the signing of Shaq Harrison makes that less likely — Harrison has the longer NBA track record of NBA defensive success. But there will be plenty of nights like this one in this NBA season too, where a wing can’t play in the rotation for whatever reason. Joe Ingles, Mike Conley, and Bojan Bogdanovic are all over 30, at some point someone will get COVID-19, and so on. Oni will likely be asked to contribute, and he didn’t look out of place in that scenario.



[/QUOTE]

has to be able to knock down open shots

[QUOTE]But there were also times when the excitement put him out of position, leading to easy rebounds or layups for Phoenix. He also struggled defensively on the perimeter a little bit. He’s got a decent shot to lead the league in blocks per minute, but will take some time to be a true impact player defensively — similar to Mitchell Robinson in New York.



[/QUOTE]

as long as they sign Gobert he has nothing but time

[QUOTE]• Elijah Hughes looked smooth offensively and pretty rough defensively. You never want to say you’ve been put through the ringer by Langston Galloway, but when Galloway earned an and-one on a 3-pointer, that’s exactly what happened. But I liked Hughes offense, and in particular, his willingness to take threes immediately off the catch and a couple of feet behind the line.



[/QUOTE]

Not sure how willing he should be if he can't hit them

[QUOTE]• I continue to love Juwan Morgan, because the guy just makes good decisions all the time. He’s not a very good athlete, but plays within himself, rebounds, and passes the ball extremely well. Tonight, the 3-ball went down — he scored 11 points on 3-4 3-point shooting. If that’s a weapon, he’ll stay in the league.



[/QUOTE]

It's a weapon. He defends too. Start him!

[QUOTE]And then he turned it around, made his threes, got to the free-throw line repeatedly, and ended up with 15 points in 15 minutes. It was a quiet 15 points, but 15 points is 15 points! I still believe he’s facing an uphill battle to make the regular season roster, but we’ll see.



[/QUOTE]

you could do worse. He's a good player. Not sure an NBA player though. Need another vet ideally



[h=2][/h]

[url]https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/12/12/22170833/utah-jazz-bojan-bogdanovic-phoenix-suns-nba[/url]

Looked like they were letting Niang show off his skills more posting up and running some pick and roll as well which makes him that much more valuable

[url]https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/12/12/22158986/instant-analysis-utah-jazz-phoenix-suns-jordan-clarkson-derrick-favors-preseason-nba[/url]

[QUOTE][h=1]Instant analysis: Jazz beat Suns as Jordan Clarkson steals the show and Derrick Favors returns in perfect fashion[/h]


[/QUOTE]

If gunning is your thing than sure Clarkson was the man! :facepalm

[QUOTE]I had nearly forgotten that one of my favorite parts of having Clarkson on the Jazz is that on a nightly basis we get to watch him get millimeters away from losing his handle and then somehow regain control and make a circus play of some sort. I’m going to go ahead and say that he’s the best in the NBA at that very specific thing.


[/QUOTE]

not really a good thing

[QUOTE]There were at least two instances on Saturday when Miye Oni was wide open for a 3 and seemed a little surprised or not ready when he received the ball from a teammate and then shot the ball a little flat. It was like he didn’t completely get his legs underneath him before taking the shot. This could just be first-night jitters, which would be super understandable, but Oni’s ability to knock down shots, especially the corner 3s, is tightly tied to him being able to break into the Jazz’s regular rotation.

[/QUOTE]

He's been more comfortable on the elbow than the corner

[QUOTE]It was great to see Bojan Bogdanovic back on the court, and there were certainly some flashes of what he’s capable of, but it’s going to take some time for him to get back to the old Bogey we’ve come to know and love. That’s not a bad thing. The guy hadn’t shot a live-game 3-pointer since March and is just coming off wrist surgery on his shooting hand. He went 2-of-6 from deep against the Suns. He’ll get there.

[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't know it but he sucked last pre season and everyone was worried. Put that to bed in game 1

[QUOTE]Before the game, Suns coach Monty Williams made a point to say that the preseason is no time to mess around because Phoenix is still a team that needs to earn respect around the league. Well, it’s kind of hard to really take the Suns seriously when Chris Paul, Jae Crowder and Dario Saric aren’t playing.

[/QUOTE]

yep they are being overrated. Prove something first

[QUOTE]Preseason games aren’t really the place to judge the defensive abilities of an NBA team. Rotations are all over the place, a certain percentage of players aren’t going to give it everything they have because it truly doesn’t count, and half the game is basically a G League contest, so we’ll have to wait and see where the Jazz are on that end of the floor.

[/QUOTE]

where they stand could depend on Snyder. Is Morgan starting?

[QUOTE][B]Wow you really hate Goss[/B]


He played all of 50 minutes last year. That isn’t enough to make a conclusion about a player. If he didn’t earn a roster spot tonight then it would’ve been impossible for him to.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Ethan%20Renshaw"]Ethan Renshaw[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534407940"]Dec 13, 2020 | 1:14 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

I love to read the opinions of people that haven't seen these guys with the Stars too!

[QUOTE]The Jazz have at least 4-5 players on the team who can fill the point guard role better than Williams-Goss. Williams-Goss has a skill set that probably at least 10-15 other fringe NBA players have, as well, and he’s at an age and at a level of experience where he is probably not going to get much better, so he could easily be replaced. I watched him in summer league several years ago when he was first drafted by the Jazz and did not observe any particular skill or attribute that would make him anything other than a very marginal NBA player. After playing over in Europe for a couple of years, when he came back to the Jazz last season, he had improved from the time he was drafted by the Jazz, but I still did not observe any particular skill or attribute that made him anything other than a very marginal NBA player. Watching him play tonight, although he has improved a bit over last season, I still did not observe any particular skill or attribute that made him anything other than a very marginal NBA player. And, his overall skill set is redundant on this particular Jazz team, and could be replaced by the skill sets of several other players currently on the team.
Instead of simply signing, trading for, or drafting a bona fide NBA PF during the off-season, the Jazz appeared to be trying to somehow create a PF from off of the bargain-basement, NBA scrap heap. Niang is a good shooter, but is not a good defender or rebounder, so objectively, he is only a marginal NBA player. In fact, I don’t think he will ever be even as good as the player he replaced—Jonas Jerebko, who is now out of the NBA altogether. Morgan seems to be better than Niang, and might be able to be developed into an NBA rotation-level stretch-4 PF, but currently appears to still be at least a year to two away from achieving that status. If the Jazz wants to be a serious contender this season, I would hope that the Jazz would quit "dinkin’ around" in trying to turn either Niang or Morgan into a rotation level stretch-4 PF, or in repeating the failed strategy of playing an undersized SF at the PF position, and just find a player who can already competently play the PF position.
Therefore, although I don’t hate Williams-Goss or Niang, I would just prefer to have a better player or players than Williams-Goss or Niang on the team, who could competently play the PF position.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534408178"]Dec 13, 2020 | 2:29 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

3 guys. Clarkson isn't a point and Forrest has played one game and can't shoot. You had him 7th earlier so he's moving up! Most guys don't impress in their first summer league. They don't think they need a 4 for whatever reason. Niang is one of the most skilled offensive players on the team. I liked Jonas too though. I'd love a starting 4 but who is available now? Morgan might be their best option. Not sure how you can't be impressed by him. He was solid last year when he played. If he hits the 3 he should start

[QUOTE]We probably could’ve gotten someone for that role with the MLE, but I think most would agree last year showed backup center was a much more urgent need.
Goss also definitely fills a need for the team. He’s the only natural point guard on the team besides Conley. If Conley or Ingles have to miss time due to injury or COVID, we need someone like him to run the second unit, much like Mudiay did last year when Conley went out. Goss can definitely fill that role at least as well as Mudiay, perhaps better. He’s halfway between when Jingles and Royce came into the nba after following a similar path. He’s got great size for a pg, can handle the ball, defend and pass well enough. He’s great finishing inside and can get to the line. If his shot is falling like it was against the suns he has a lot to offer. I just don’t see how someone can watch him play like he did and not think he deserves a shot at an nba roster. That just screams refusing to change your mind about a player with barley a full game of nba playtime.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Ethan%20Renshaw"]Ethan Renshaw[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534408573"]Dec 13, 2020 | 4:14 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

Already had a serviceable cheap backup center that will just get better. They thought that was more important last year and it killed them with Davis and no 4. Goss might be a better pg than Mudiay. He's not the scorer he is but fits what they do better. Can he defend?

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson[/url]

[QUOTE]In the second half, Quin rested his starters, and we got to see our bench play extended minutes. Lot’s of guys impressed, including [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/336713/juwan-morgan"]Juwan Morgan[/URL] who had 11 points, 7 rebounds, and shot 3 of 4 from the three point line. [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/285729/nigel-williams-goss"]Nigel Williams-Goss[/URL] was a pleasant surprise off the bench tonight. He finished with 15 points on only 4 shot attempts! His shot looked smooth, and he got to the line frequently with his aggressive play.


[/QUOTE]

He's a good shooter and player. Only question is if he's athletic enough to defend

[QUOTE]In a game where 15 players saw the court, and nobody played more than 25 minutes, the production was very evenly spread among the Jazz roster. That said, the game ball has to go to the Flamethrower, Jordan Clarkson. JC lit it up tonight, hitting shots from all over the court. He led the team in scoring, with 19 points, and did it efficiently, hitting 5 of 10 from three. Opposing benches will have a hard time guarding Jordan Clarkson this season.


[/QUOTE]

I'd go Morgan

[QUOTE]There were a lot of positive things to take away from this game. The Jazz ran more and rained threes all night. This team will put up a lot of points this year, and it will be a lot of fun for Jazz fans to watch.



[/QUOTE]

be a lot funner if they defend

[QUOTE][B]I loved Morgan's minutes.[/B]


I hope his 3 is as good as it looked tonight, but that’s still a question mark. I know what to expect from his defense and rebounding though and I think that should give him a chance to break into the rotation.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Calvin%20Chappell"]Calvin Chappell[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534406790"]Dec 12, 2020 | 10:50 PM[/URL]

[/QUOTE]

hit it with the Stars. No reason to think he can't hit open shots in the NBA as well

[QUOTE]Niang picked right up where he left off last season—he hit a few 3-point shots, but not at a great percentage; he played poor defense; and he tried to do too way much in the way of playmaking, which led to some unnecessary turnovers. I wasn’t impressed with his play, and I was truly puzzled why he got the start for the Jazz. If the Jazz are going to insist on playing Niang for regular minutes this season (for some inexplicable reason—because he’s not good), it’s going to lead to some unnecessary losses for the Jazz, because Niang is not yet ready to be a regular NBA rotation player on a good team (and I’m not sure he ever will be).
I thought Morgan looked better at the PF position than Niang—and he was hitting 3-point shots, but I don’t think he’s a rotation level PF yet either, although he might grow into that role in a year or two.
PF was an obvious weakness of the Jazz last season, and I’m not sure that Jazz management fixed the problem simply by adding Derrick Favors to the mix.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534407828"]Dec 13, 2020 | 12:51 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

I thought Niang looked good. Morgan was great and should get a chance to start. Favors played no 4 and hopefully won't. Yes they needed a proven vet starting 4

[QUOTE][B]Williams-Goss played better than last season, but I still don't think he did anything to deserve a roster spot with the Jazz, unless the Jazz just doesn't care who it has on end of its bench.[/B]


I thought Forrest looked better than Williams-Goss, in general, but Williams-Goss did hit some shots against the 2nd and 3rd string competition he faced tonight, to his credit. I would still like to see the Jazz try to switch out Williams-Goss for the best stretch-4 PF the team can afford.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534407851"]Dec 13, 2020 | 12:55 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

Forrest can't shoot. Goss fits the Jazz in every way. Only question is if he is athletic enough to defend. With Morgan and Brantley not sure what another young 4 does