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[QUOTE=Manny98;15007802]Not a fan of Fears I'd be annoyed if we traded up for him[/QUOTE]
I don't like him either.
I desperately wanted us to finish with the worst record so we would be 5th at worst because i think there is a drop off at 6, so natually that is where we ended up. :cry:
[QUOTE=GOBB;15007804]Tre is the best shooter in the draft.[/QUOTE]
I've been on the Tre bandwagon all year and thought we had a good chance to get him if we fall in the draft. Then we went on a late run and Utah went into shameless tank mode and passed us. SMFH
[QUOTE=tontoz;15007808]I've been on the Tre bandwagon all year and thought we had a good chance to get him if we fall in the draft. Then we went on a late run and Utah went into shameless tank mode and passed us. SMFH[/QUOTE]
I don’t think he’s a lock to go to Utah. Still a chance
Here's how Coop and similarly-sized NBA FWDs compare to all historically-measured SFs in a percentile-based composite score of barefoot height, standing reach, wingspan, and weight.
Flagg: 75.8% (18.5 draft age)
LBJ: 81.6% (18.5 draft age)
Smith: 72.3% (18.53 draft age)
Tatum: 57.7% (19.29 draft age)
PG: 70.0% (20.12 draft age)
Jalen Johnson: 69.1% (19.5 draft age)
Aaron Gordon: 68.9% (18.75 draft age)
Consider the draft age and the weight measurements. Tatum's measurements weren't done at the NBA Draft Combine, so his number may be understated a little.
One of my favorite comparisons: a 1.75" taller, better-shooting Jimmy Butler with 4.5" more wingspan and 5.5" more standing reach.
[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;15008131]One of my favorite comparisons: a 1.75" taller, better-shooting Jimmy Butler with 4.5" more wingspan and 5.5" more standing reach.[/QUOTE]
That's a good one. Jimmy with legit PF size.
[QUOTE=GOBB;15007804]Tre is the best shooter in the draft.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Tre shoots 39.7% on off-the-dribble threes; Kon shoots 14%.
[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;15008369]Agreed. Tre shoots 39.7% on off-the-dribble threes; Kon shoots 14%.[/QUOTE]
Tre is also money on movement 3s off the catch.
His problem is that he isn't that athletic which hurts him taking it to the rim and on D.
[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;15008130]Here's how Coop and similarly-sized NBA FWDs compare to all historically-measured SFs in a percentile-based composite score of barefoot height, standing reach, wingspan, and weight.
Flagg: 75.8% (18.5 draft age)
LBJ: 81.6% (18.5 draft age)
Smith: 72.3% (18.53 draft age)
Tatum: 57.7% (19.29 draft age)
PG: 70.0% (20.12 draft age)
Jalen Johnson: 69.1% (19.5 draft age)
Aaron Gordon: 68.9% (18.75 draft age)
Consider the draft age and the weight measurements. Tatum's measurements weren't done at the NBA Draft Combine, so his number may be understated a little.[/QUOTE]
Every time I see Flagg, I get surprised at how big he is. I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised at how practical athletic he is going to be.
Flagg has very long strides and very long shoulders, he is way more AD than a regular SF/PF hybrid.
He reminds me of Durant on offense, when Durant is driving. He can go from 3 point line to the hoop with a simple 1-2 step and on defense he is going to be able to close out on 3 point shooters like how AD can.
I’m back on Ace Bailey bandwagon. Draft him Philly
If Ace Bailey has a true work ethic to refine his already impressive skills off ball and introduce an acceptable handle to attack and change direction, this dude could easily become the best go to scorer from this draft class.
I doubt he will ever be a playmaker type.
In all honesty, I believe he fits better with the Spurs for the next 3-5 years than Harper does.
Cooper Flagg scouting report from Sam Vecenie:
[QUOTE][B]STRENGTHS:[/B]
● Great size for the combo forward position. Stands 6 feet 7.75 with a 7-foot wingspan and an 8-foot-10.5 standing reach. Has a strong 221-pound frame that makes it easy to forget that he doesn’t turn 19 until December. Those are elite measurements that will allow him to play either forward spot without issue.
● Flagg has a ridiculous combination of athletic reactivity and motor. First and foremost, he plays incredibly hard all the time. Doesn’t stop moving. Doesn’t stop attacking. Relentless in how he chases the game on both ends. He’s a genuinely elite competitor on both ends of the court. Never gives an inch. Plays with an intensity and passion that shines through on the court. He’s a classic energy-giver to his teammates with his big plays. Constantly engaged on the bench. Has serious competitive character and toughness on the court. Has zero fear.
● Athletically, has some pop both off of one or two feet vertically, but his athleticism has more to it than that. Very fluid. Gets off of the ground quickly. Doesn’t have a 40-plus-inch vertical, but hits his highest point seemingly faster than other players do. Also absorbs contact at an elite level. Can give out bumps but also makes it really hard to go through him. More than willing to play a physical brand of basketball and initiate contact.
● Will go down as one of the most impactful and productive freshmen of the last 25 years. He wasn’t quite Williamson in terms of pure box-score productivity, but he did exceed Davis outside of Davis’ obscene block numbers at Kentucky. Again, he also did all of this at 17 and 18 years old, having just turned 18 in December.
● Elite transition player. Turns defense into serious offense as we’ll discuss later in this section. If you give him some space, he has a functional enough handle to get all the way to the rim and finish. Fluid with the ball at his size, but also fills transition lanes incredibly well and creates a vertical threat o the ball. Great stride length. Motor shows up here in how hard he sprints. Covers ground quickly. Hard to stay in front. Explosive finisher if he gets a runway and will throw down some highlight-reel dunks. But more importantly, he finishes well with both hands at the basket on touch plays. Again, good contact balance. If you bump him, he’s still going to maintain his touch out on the break.
● Offensive play as a shot creator was a revelation this season and ultimately is why he has ended up as one of the best prospects of the last two decades. Duke used him as a primary playmaker, and the results were spectacular. After some early-season struggles in dealing with help defenders, Flagg adjusted and became one of the most lethal scorers in the country.
● Flagg was tasked with creating advantages and collapsing defenses himself for the first time in his career, and the results were ridiculous. Was a consistent mismatch nightmare. Duke used him a variety of ways, from a pick-and-roll ballhandler to an isolation threat to running him off screens as the primary option to using him as a roller and cutter. He was about as varied an offensive weapon as I can remember seeing in college basketball and he thrived in every single aspect.
● Moves really well without the ball and was able to find his way into about six points per game just through finding dead spaces in the defense off rolls and cuts or by playing hard and hitting the offensive glass. Always seems to be in motion when he doesn’t have the ball. Constantly trying to find ways to pressure defenders. Serious threat diving to the rim — either in pick-and-roll or just crashing the glass — because of his athleticism and ability to high-point the ball. Grabbed about 1.5 offensive rebounds per game. Empty-side ball screens with him as the screener were lethal. Elite in that short-roll area about 10 to 15 feet from the rim because of his ability to extend, stride out and finish with an advantage. Can’t really help off him because of his motor and activity.
● The way he grew in ball screens was the most exciting aspect of his game. Was consistently capable of getting downhill and getting all the way to the rim. Took about four half-court shots per game at the basket, a high number for a teenager. Shot 55 percent on these looks, but also had 19 dunks, showcasing his ability to finish above the rim. Additionally, Flagg lived at the foul line. Averaged more than six free-throw attempts per game this year and made 84 percent of them. Showcased a craftier handle than we’ve seen from him at lower levels, as well as a more advanced understanding of how to change pace. When he saw a crease, he was decisive in getting downhill. Has long strides that allow him to get to his spots quicker than you expect. Does a great job of using his off arm to create separation and cover ground. Has counters now depending on how defenders play him. Can spin back and use his strength to create separation. Has a solid crossover. Uses his pivot foot exceptionally well.
● Flagg’s midrange game was also lethal this year, something he’d shown a lot of strides with in his final year in high school, too. Hit his pull-up jumpers at a 45.8 effective field-goal percentage at Montverde in his last year, a massive leap. Took that to a new level this year. Showcased suddenness and comfort at stringing together moves to get to the spot he wanted. Has the ability to adapt in mid-air even if he goes up wrong-footed and re-align himself. Hit 33.3 percent of his pull-up midrange jumpers this year, per Synergy, which isn’t great but is a good building block. Loves to jab-step on a drive before setting a defender up and pulling from 3.
● Has also shown ability to knock down 3s, an underrated part of his game. Made 38.5 percent from 3 this season on nearly four attempts per game. Also made 39 percent of his 3s at Monteverde, showing growth as a shot-maker, especially off the catch. We’ll talk about some of the jumper questions in the next section, but Flagg has displayed comfort as a shooter. Montverde ran him off actions and sets and had him fire on the move. Duke did on occasion as well, and he made 10 3s this year off screens at a 43.5 percent clip, per Synergy. His ability to comfortably get his feet assembled and into position before firing on-balance is impressive. Can elevate on the jumper when he has to or take a set shot if he’s at a standstill. Can be wrong-footed and still elevate higher into a jumper while re-aligning himself in mid-air. Made pull-up 3s at a solid rate this year, too, hitting 41.4 percent on limited volume, per Synergy.
● Mismatch post threat. If he sets a screen and a switch comes, Flagg will aggressively go down onto the block and call for the ball to take advantage of his size, strength and footwork. Good at sealing smaller players away from the rim. Quick spin moves and drop steps. Was among the most efficient post players in the country this season largely because he picked his spots incredibly well.[/QUOTE]
...
[QUOTE]● All of this leads to what might be Flagg’s best offensive skill, though: his passing ability. A very unselfish player. Makes quick decisions. Doesn’t overdribble before finding his teammates. If someone is open, he’s going to hit them. Excellent at getting downhill and making live-dribble passes to create shots for his teammates. Does an amazing job of creating angles with jumps. Awesome at keeping his eyes up even as he goes up for a shot, looking for an easier opportunity for a teammate. Finds the cross-corner kickouts after the tagger sits on the roller. Finds the baseline reads to the corner. Excellent at finding cutters and dump-offs into the dunker spot.
● Even showed some extremely high-level short-roll kickout reads as the screener in ball-screen situations. Can put velocity on the ball, or just throw a well-timed lob with touch. Can throw nearly any pass he has to from any angle. Will be an awesome passer and playmaker for his teammates in the NBA when the passing windows get even wider. Averaged 4.2 assists per game this year versus only 2.1 turnovers.
● In high school, he was one of the best defensive playmakers I’ve ever evaluated at his age. He was incredibly disruptive. He flew around and used that tremendous reaction time to blow up plays all over the court in help situations. Clearly has preternatural anticipation compared to other players when roaming that weak side of the play. This year at Duke, it wasn’t quite that good, but it was still terrific. Averaged 1.4 steals and 1.4 blocks per game. Consistently made himself available for his teammates in help situations if they got beat. Had moments of very positive anticipation. He’s just constantly around the ball, and his presence stops offensive teams from even getting into the exact actions they want to.
● Wasn’t as elite a shot-blocker in college as he was in high school. Has maintained terrific fundamentals where he jumps straight up without fouling, and combines it with great timing to both bait the offensive player into the drive and also to get all the way across to high-point the ball and swat it. Stays big on the weak side. A significant piece of this, though, is that aforementioned anticipation. Didn’t play as much of a cat-and-mouse game this year at Duke, but in high school it felt like he was daring opposing players to try him. Sees things happen before other players do on the court.
● The numbers were ridiculous pre-Duke. Blocked 2.9 shots per game in the U17 World Cup as a 15-year-old in 2022. Blocked 4.8 shots per game on the EYBL circuit in 2023, a truly obscene number. Blocked 2.2 shots per game at Montverde in 2023-24. Interested to see if he can get back to that level in the NBA. But even at Duke, he definitely looked a step ahead of his competition.
● Has genuinely elite hand-eye coordination on defense. His timing to go up and contest or block shots is ridiculous. Always seems to get home on digs into the paint on drives and get his hand on the ball. Very timely with his decisions to double. Great at timing his anticipation reads when gambling to go for a steal. Disrupts opposing players on the ball with timely reaches. All of this leads to Flagg being truly elite at turning defense into early, high-leverage offensive possessions.
● Was good on the ball at Duke, not great. We’ll talk more about the negatives in the next section, but he had some moments where he got out-leveraged by smaller, quicker players. Will fight and recover against them, but does have some things to work on. However, against forwards, had absolutely no issues and was very impactful at Duke. Also did well in switches on centers. All told, he was a terrific defender at Duke whom offenses absolutely had to account for on that end of the court. He led Duke to a top-five defense nationally. He was rightfully a finalist for national college basketball Defensive Player of the Year this season. However, he wasn’t quite the potential challenger to Victor Wembanyama’s stranglehold over the NBA Defensive Player of the Year awards that he looked like he was in high school, either.
[B]AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT: [/B]
● Flagg’s jumper mechanics are a bit funky but improved during the year. He brings the ball up into his shooting pocket basically from his right shoulder and doesn’t always seem to have the same mechanics through the release. In high school, the arm motion through the shot was a bit off. But he drastically improved this part of his game and has really ironed out the mechanics this year. Things look much smoother coming out of his hand. Has really gotten rid of a number of hitchy issues he had at lower levels. I absolutely buy Flagg as a shooter long-term, but there may be some slight inconsistency early.
● More than anything, the handle is a potential point to watch. It can get a bit loose in a way that high school and college defenders couldn’t take advantage of because of how physical he is. Needs to tighten the handle up and keep it a bit closer to his body, especially on his drives toward the rim where the paint becomes even more condensed by length and aggressive, digging defenders.
● He plays a bit high and hunched off the bounce, which can lead to less suddenness and more awkwardness than you’d typically like to see when he gets into a crowded area. Sometimes struggled to separate from his man and had to take contested shots at the rim.
● I’m grasping at straws here, but his on-ball defense against perimeter players was not always amazing. He plays a bit high in his stance and can get out-leveraged by those players. Did give up more paint touches in these situations than I expected this season. Has the length and recovery ability to jump and contest from behind. His footwork and fundamentals can get awkward at times. Can get clipped occasionally going around screens.
● If Flagg ends up not making All-Defense in the NBA, I would bet that the reason will be because opposing guards try to take advantage of him in switches. He deals with these situations reasonably well for a combo forward, and I would bet he gets even better on the ball defensively against guards over time given that he’s still just 18, but wouldn’t project him to be as good as Kawhi Leonard, Herb Jones or Amen Thompson on the ball, either.
[B]SUMMARY:[/B]
Flagg is about as complete a prospect as I’ve evaluated in the years I’ve been doing this. I have him as the second-best prospect during my time as an evaluator since 2015, behind only Victor Wembanyama. While I think Williamson’s theoretical ceiling was higher than Flagg’s, Flagg’s overall game on both ends of the court and his blend of skill level and craft will likely translate better to high-leverage situations. Two other factors make me pick Flagg over Williamson. First, with Flagg, there is no roster-building limitation. Because he’s so complete and such an elite competitor in terms of mentality, he’s an amplifier of those around him. With Williamson, you always needed to build a specific type of roster around him, likely needing to find the all-important floor-spacing center, a difficult archetype to acquire. Second, Williamson had injury concerns going back to high school. Flagg has not. The level of safety you get with Flagg drastically exceeds that of Williamson, even on draft day in 2019.
I see Flagg as a future All-NBA player with his upside being that he could become a top-five player in the league. His overall impact on the game on both ends of the floor is remarkable. He’s the exact kind of player you want to build your organization around in terms of temperament and mentality if you want to try to win championships. He’s an immediate organizational centerpiece.[/QUOTE]
A nice player comparison video. Shows the most similarities with Pippen out of the guys shown, in my opinion. Tatum and Kawhi don't play off two feet like Cooper & Scottie. Andrei doesn't have the on-ball offensive game and is significantly taller and longer, standing at 6'9" barefoot, with a 7'4" wingspan and a standing reach of 9'1" to 9'3".
[video=youtube;tg7jQhWaZvU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg7jQhWaZvU&ab_channel=PandaHank41[/video]
Comparison talk from Iztok Franko:
[QUOTE]By now, you can see that Flagg is such an intriguing prospect and difficult to compare because of his two-way potential and skill set. That’s why names like Leonard and Garnett come up. But even Kawhi wasn’t nearly the passer or high-usage scorer Flagg is at such a young age. Because of that, I split my comparisons into two groups of players: one for offense and one for defense.
[B]Defense[/B]
First, it’s really hard to find a college prospect who matches Flagg’s combination of block rate, steal rate, defensive rebound rate, and defensive win share rate.
[img]https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:s teep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F6a3559f c-4b63-483f-86e5-b0ec1fde27bc_2974x1506.png[/img]
I don’t necessarily think Flagg will reach the same level of defensive impact as Anthony Davis, Kevin Garnett, or other anchor big types — or even Jonathan Isaac, who is truly elite when healthy. That’s mostly because those players have clear advantages in size and length. Draymond Green is another interesting comparison, partly due to the playmaking element, but he’s also a one-of-a-kind, high-IQ defender who’s tough to replicate.
Maybe Flagg’s competitiveness will help him become one of the best defenders in the league, but that’s hard to project. He’s also not the same kind of on-ball menace that someone like Toumani Camara or peak Ben Simmons was. However, even if his defensive ceiling ends up closer to that of a secondary rim protector and roamer — someone like Tari Eason, a comparison I personally like — that would still make him a very good, All-Defense caliber defender.
[B]Offense[/B]
If it’s hard to find comparisons that match Flagg’s rebounding, block, and steal rates, finding a forward with similar scoring, usage, and assist rates might be an even tougher job.
[IMG]https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:s teep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F600e6de b-df43-4a09-94e5-569ffa924721_3032x1778.png[/IMG]
If you filter college stats for players with Flagg’s combination of scoring (over 20 points per 36), assists (over 4 per 36), usage rate (above 25%), and more than 100 three-point attempts in a season, you won’t find wings. Instead, you’ll mostly see high-usage scoring primary playmaking options like Stephen Curry, Kemba Walker, Damian Lillard, and Ja Morant.
A few interesting secondary playmaking wings that showed up in my comparisons once I lowered the thresholds were the previously mentioned Draymond Green and Ben Simmons, along with Evan Turner and Kyle Anderson. We’ll see whether Flagg develops more as a scorer — like Kawhi Leonard, Jayson Tatum, or Paul George — or as a playmaker in the mold of Draymond Green or Ben Simmons. The potential and uncertainty is what makes watching his career path unfold so intriguing.[/QUOTE]