The battle for rank #10 all time... Hakeem vs Kobe

[QUOTE=Fatal9]Debate for 10th is between Kobe and Wilt.[/QUOTE]

In which case...players like Kareem, Bird, and Hakeem would be on the outside of the Top-10, and looking in.
:facepalm

Hakeem has NO case over Wilt...and in fact, he was a BORDERLINE Top-10 player. Hell, the man was seldom regarded as even a Top-4 player in HIS era.

ONE MVP, and that came in a season in which the REAL best player took the year off. One other SECOND place finish. And only TWO more FOURTH place finishes...in EIGHTEEN seasons. The man was not even considered a Top-TEN player, in his OWN era, in HALF of those EIGHTEEN seasons.

The more I study Hakeem's career, the WORSE it gets. The only "great" to "lead" his teams to EIGHT FIRST ROUND EXITS (and in 15 post-seasons...or over HALF the time.)

Moses was more dominant at his peak, and had a 3-1 edge in MVPs. His best seasons were FAR stronger than Hakeem's best. And he outplayed a considerably younger Kareem, in a more dominant fashion, too. And he never allowed Kareem to average 33 ppg and on a mind-boggling .634 shooting, covering FIVE H2H games, either (and Kareem was 38 at the time!)

Hell, an OLD Wilt reduced a PRIME Kareem to a .464 shooter in their 28 H2H games (and fortunately for Kareem, he NEVER faced a PRIME Wilt), while an OLD Kareem shot .599 against Hakeem in their 22 H2H encounters...and at ages 38 thru 41.

Im not a big fan of these types of debates..but i will go as far as...I would draft Hakeem before Bryant..if they were both in the same draft class....hmm like someone else hakeem got drafted over..ha

[QUOTE=jlauber]



The more I study Hakeem's career, the WORSE it gets. The only "great" to "lead" his teams to EIGHT FIRST ROUND EXITS (and in 15 post-seasons...or over HALF the time.)


[/QUOTE]

The only time you've "seen" Hakeem play is on basketball-reference, you old fart. Your comments regarding his games and some of his match-ups may be the most retarded ever, you live in your little bubble where Wilt is the greatest at everything with your pathetic "MY GOD"-bs while your analyzing skills regarding Hakeem is worse than a kid's. You even wrote that there's not much difference between rookie and 2nd year pro Olajuwon compared to his prime.. :facepalm

Go watch the games, you only bring up stats but you have not even once break down any of the games you've commented...:facepalm

"Research"..:facepalm

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Kobe is better than both IMO.

Hakeem is one of my favorite players of all time though.[/QUOTE]
I'll give you Oscar, but I disagree with Hakeem. Anyhow, I think the top 8 (Jordan, Russel, KAJ, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Duncan) is kind of set in stone, and neither of those guys should be in there, at least if we'd assume that Kobe's career would end right at this moment.

Goddamit, I'm beginning to see why jlauber rants so much. The Wilt hate on this board is insane! Shit, there is no way Kobe is anywhere remotely close to Wilt ****ING Chamberlain. Period. And LOL @ that one guy leaving Wilt off his list completely. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=RRR3]Goddamit, I'm beginning to see why jlauber rants so much. The Wilt hate on this board is insane! Shit, there is no way Kobe is anywhere remotely close to Wilt ****ING Chamberlain. Period. And LOL @ that one guy leaving Wilt off his list completely. :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8[/url]

[QUOTE=millwad][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8[/url][/QUOTE]
:violin: :sleeping

Ha ..agendas , agendas and god damned agendas...

I agree pauk, they are close, but ultimately there is a clear edge for kobe:

9. West
[B]10. Bryant
11. Olajuwon[/B]
12. Robertson

Hakeem has become a little overrated in the last few years. People forget that there were legitimate concerns about hakeems leadership and ability to raise his teammates level of play (i admit, he had some pretty mediocre teammates) in the late 80s/early 90s. That's what happens when you get knocked out of the first round 4 years in a row.

I also can't shake the fact that he won his 2 rings with the goat out of the league. How many rings would barkley/malone/drexler have if jordan took his 2 years off a couple years earlier or later?

[QUOTE=oolalaa]
I also can't shake the fact that he won his 2 rings with the goat out of the league. How many rings would barkley/malone/drexler have if jordan took his 2 years off a couple years earlier or later?[/QUOTE]
Yet you'll be fine with LeBron winning 'em if they come alongside Wade and Bosh... right?

Hakeem is a bit of an odd case in terms of his career ranking. His peak from 93-95 isn't long, but his level of play was extraordinary in that short window. From 84 to 92, he didn't really separate himself from Ewing and David Robinson( and then of course Shaq entered the picture). In fact prior to 1993, I imagine many people would have placed him lower than Ewing/Robinson. David Robinson's own legacy was probably ruined by Hakeem destroying him in the 95 playoffs. I think he'd be even more highly regarded if not for that.

Unfortunately for Hakeem, people are always going to place an asterisk to those years because Jordan was off swinging at( and mostly missing) baseballs. But I believe those mid 90's Rockets teams, especially the 95 team, would have been a handful for the Bulls, especially coming off a 3peat.

For one season, I'd pick Hakeem at his 94/95 level over Kobe at his best level( 02-03, 05-06,07-08) but Kobe's definitely had the better overall career and when it's all said and done, their GOAT rankings should reflect that.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]
For one season, I'd pick Hakeem at his 94/95 level over Kobe at his best level( 02-03, 05-06,07-08) but Kobe's definitely had the better overall career and when it's all said and done, their GOAT rankings should reflect that.[/QUOTE]
Succinctly put.

It's kind of a pity that Kobe's best statistical season came with his worst team around him. Or... maybe it was because of that.

[QUOTE=Fatal9]Debate for 10th is between Kobe and Wilt.[/QUOTE]
Wait what? I actually have Wilt 8th and Kobe 9th.

sorry i'm not too familiar with the rules for this... does this mean whoever loses this is ranked outside of the top ten? i feel like both Kobe and Hakeem should be top 10. i'd have a hard time naming 9 guys better than BOTH of them.

[QUOTE=with malice]Succinctly put.

It's kind of a pity that Kobe's best statistical season came with his worst team around him. Or... maybe it was because of that.[/QUOTE]

I assume you're referring to the 06 season? Personally, I think Kobe's 2003 season across the board was better. Scoring average aside, he shot a career high in 3's, put up 5.9 assists( second highest average for career), and career high in steals and rebounds. He wasn't at the level of leadership he displayed in 08 and beyond, but I believe his athleticism/physical peak and skills were perfectly in sync in 2003.