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[QUOTE=32Dayz]ok so lets just ignore the amount of shots a player took, the pace of the game when he played and so many other factors because the only thing that matters is JMT's personal opinion.
Even though I have seen JMT post many times before and know he is personally biased against Oneal and dislikes him.
:applause:[/QUOTE]
Dislikes him? Only in comparison to better players. :applause:
[QUOTE=Pointguard]You a funny dude. You know full well that isn't Jlauder.[/QUOTE]
Well whatever I got them mixed up.
Forgive me.
They are both the main Wilt fans of this forum.
[QUOTE=32Dayz]Well whatever I got them mixed up.
Forgive me.
They are both the main Wilt fans of this forum.[/QUOTE]
It was inevitable that somebody that's followed the game for more than 10 years was going to show up sometime.
[QUOTE=JMT]It was inevitable that somebody that's followed the game for more than 10 years was going to show up sometime.[/QUOTE]
I've been following the game since 94.
So that's... what 18 years?
[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Not far. His peak puts him in the conversation because at his best he is arguably as good as any player has ever been.
However he is not someone I consider for the top spot for the following reasons...
1) [B]Wasted prime years[/B]. Being out of shape or not in harmony with his coaches/teammates cost him, that's not acceptable if a player of equal credentials/ability has set a higher standard as Jordan and Russell have for me. Both players took their teams as far as they could possibly go in every healthy full season they played.
2) [B]Inconsistent dominance bourne out of worth ethic[/B]. Shaq could have had a five or so year run as the insanely dominant player he was for 2000 and most of 2001 but first immaturity and second lack of discipline squelched that chance. Again Russell and Jordan never let those flaws arise and deter them.
3) [B]Hung on to long.[/B] This is a personal thing, but seeing 1989 Kareem or 1990whatever Moses or Toronto Raptor Hakeem is unsettling. Shaq post-Phoenix was a disaster. On occasion when a team dedicated their offense to his strengths he was efficient and effective, but otherwise he was a liability. That sucked. Russell and Jordan went out on top, even Wizard MJ was still a top 20-30 player in the league.
I love Shaq, I'll always take his side over Kobe and he may very well be the last GREAT center for a long, if not all-time. A player of his make-up would dominate in any era, physically he held a greater advantage over his peers than anyone in my opinion and only Wilt rivals him in that regard. I have often been tempted to rank him as high as fourth all-time, I struggle with him, Wilt and Kareem. He deserves to get the nod based on consistency during his peak, but those other guys were so much better for the rest of their primes and more importantly hold a defensive edge over Shaq that is more significant than any other distinction relevant to the conversation. At worst, Shaq is the ninth greatest player ever.[/QUOTE]
:cheers: This
#1.[B]
Jordan : Post Season - PER[/B]
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6
------------------------------------------------------------
#2.
[B]Shaq : Post Season - PER[/B]
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33
------------------------------------------------------------
#3.
[B]Wilt Chamberlain : Post Season - PER[/B]
Peak : 31.3
Top 5 : 28.36
[B]Top 7 : 27.59[/B]
[B]Top 10 : 25.46
Top 13 : 22.8[/B]
------------------------------------------------------------
#5.
[B]Kareem : Post Season - PER[/B]
Peak : 32.4
Top 5 : 27.4
Top 7 : 25.64
[B]Top 10 : 25.42
Top 13 : 24.7[/B]
14th to 16th Season (3 Seasons) - 20.9
Last 2 Seasons : 12.85 (26.65 MPG)
:applause:
What is this BS about Kareem or Wilt or any other Center having a better or longer Prime???
I would say that he should have it so that his career didn't overlap with Jordan's. That would help too.
[QUOTE=32Dayz]I've been following the game since 94.
So that's... what 18 years?[/QUOTE]
So you've seen all one of the players in this discussion. Great!
Your math is almost as good as your player analysis.
[QUOTE=JMT]So you've seen all one of the players in this discussion. Great![/QUOTE]
Not every NBA fan is 75 years old and has seen all the ATGreats.
I've watched all the video footage available publicly of Magic/Bird and the old time players.
I guess being 22 I am too young to be an NBA fan?
:facepalm
Your an idiot.
[QUOTE=32Dayz]Not every NBA fan is 75 years old and has seen all the ATGreats.
I've watched all the video footage available publicly of Magic/Bird and the old time players.
I guess being 22 I am too young to be an NBA fan?
[/QUOTE]
Nope, but it sure doesn't qualify you to speak as an expert on players that you never saw play.
Everybody's entitled to opinions. But when yours consists pretty much solely of one stat that you've hand selected...and is delivered complete with calling those who disagree "retard" and "idiot"...it pretty much diminishes the value of anything you've got to say.
Hell, at 22 you want to claim "following" the NBA as a four year old? You didn't even see[I] Shaq's [/I]whole career.
[QUOTE=JMT]Nope, but it sure doesn't qualify you to speak as an expert on players that you never saw play.
Everybody's entitled to opinions. But when yours consists pretty much solely of one stat that you've hand selected...and is delivered complete with calling those who disagree "retard" and "idiot"...it pretty much diminishes the value of anything you've got to say.
Hell, at 22 you want to claim "following" the NBA as a four year old? You didn't even see[I] Shaq's [/I]whole career.[/QUOTE]
I've been following Shaq since 94, he has been my favorite player since then till now.
And I have made plenty of arguments outside of PER, your just biased and dont want to understand or accept them because you are already dead set in your hateful opinions of him.
Anyway I am done in this thread, I expressed my opinions have fun.
[QUOTE=32Dayz]I've been following Shaq since 94, [B]he has been my favorite player since then till now[/B].
.[/QUOTE]
:roll: And since he's not my favorite, I'm biased?
Are you sure you're 22?
I see this was edited in afterwards:
[QUOTE=32Dayz]Why would I lie about something that can easily be looked up in 5 seconds? :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Conversely, why would you make a mistake about something that can easily be looked up in 5 seconds?
:confusedshrug:
In my experience, enthusiastic fans of certain players don't let facts get in the way, and frequently make assertions without verifying their validity. Since it is so easily looked up, there's really no excuse for it.
[QUOTE=32Dayz][QUOTE=Pointguard]You a funny dude. You know full well that isn't Jlauder.[/QUOTE]
Well whatever I got them mixed up.
Forgive me.
They are both the main Wilt fans of this forum.[/QUOTE]
Yet another "mistake." I am not jlauber, as Pointguard already said, and I am not one of "the main Wilt fans of this forum." I am neither a "Wilt fan," nor a "Wilt hater/detractor." I find this dichotomy irritating, that one must either be a stan or a hater. One can't impartially discuss a player since impartial/unbiased/agendaless discussion occurs so infrequently here.
[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]I am not one of "the main Wilt fans of this forum." I am neither a "Wilt fan"[/QUOTE]
I know who "you" are.
Dont feed me that obvious and "MASSIVE' lie.
:facepalm
You are a huge Wilt fan and have been for a very long time.
I am familiar with your posts on RealGM and other forums.
There is nothing wrong with that either so I dont see why you'd try to cover it up.
[QUOTE=32Dayz]I know who "you" are.
Dont feed me that obvious and "MASSIVE' lie.
:facepalm
[B]You are a huge Wilt fan and have been for a very long time.[/B]
I am familiar with your posts on RealGM and other forums.
There is nothing wrong with that either so I dont see why you'd try to cover it up.[/QUOTE]
:confusedshrug:
I find it ironic, considering the fact that I have been lumped into the category of "Wilt haters" on this very board, and now I'm "a huge Wilt fan."
:oldlol:
Funny.
Wilt Chamberlain is one of the greatest players ever to play the game. As a long-time basketball fan and student of basketball history, I respect that. I have posted when certain things have been said because I dislike falsehoods being stated, but for the most part, there are people like jlauber and PHILA to address most things Wilt-related. I am neutral. I have spoken for Wilt on certain occasions, and I've also spoken against him on certain occasions. I have no particular agenda either way, I just call it as I see it. I am now certain though, that you aren't in fact "familiar with my posts on RealGM and other forums."