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[QUOTE=Marchesk]What has Lebron done that Wilt didn't do? Or Magic or Oscar or Bird. On the other hand, there's lots of things Lebron hasn't done that Wilt has.[/QUOTE]
Lebron is better than Wilt Chambarlain in every facet of the game other than rebounding.
In his prime Wilt would be competing with KLOVE for rebounding title in this era but other than that he would be quite irrelevant
[QUOTE=$LakerGold]The way I see Wilt is that he was just steps ahead of everybody in his Era. With the way how Athletic everyone is now, I really doubt he'll average the same numbers as he did back then. PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO LET GO. Face it, the game has evolved & there's a reason for it.
Shaq Or Hakeem.[/QUOTE]
Shaq and Hakeem aren't in the league anymore. Why does everyone think athleticism is the same thing as skill. Is Nash super athletic? What about Dirk? Pierce in his 30s? Garnett? Athleticism is overrated. There are tons of athletic dudes who either don't make the pros or ride the pine because they don't have the skill. Skill matters. Athleticism is nice to have, but it doesn't make you a good basketball player.
Anyway, Wilt was plenty athletic, and the reason he wouldn't average those numbers now is because the style of the game has changed, not because of super athletes. Really, is Lebron supposed to be keeping Wilt from scoring? Like he kept Hibbert from scoring? Lebron can't guard a legit 5. (Or a legit 4 for any length of time).
You need legit bigs with good defense to do that. What athletic big men are you using today to slow Wilt down? You can argue for more advanced defensive tactics, and strategies to hack or deny Wilt the ball. But it won't be because of athleticism.
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Something funny? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Wilt's Finals stats
A guy who puts up the stats he did? Only if the league once again averages up to ~150 possessions a game, compared to todays ~90.... i seriously doubt that will happen.... i made a thread a time ago which might interest you on this topic: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294854[/url]
Will we see another Wilt? Yes, there has been similar Centers or perhaps even better... stats dont show it, but if you take a look at the thread above you will see why that is and how well other greats from modern era would do with Wilt's pace/poss. per game....
[QUOTE=Haks]Lebron is better than Wilt Chambarlain in every facet of the game other than rebounding.
In his prime Wilt would be competing with KLOVE for rebounding title in this era but other than that he would be quite irrelevant[/QUOTE]
Lebron is better at rim protecting? :lol
What makes you think Lebron is a better scorer? I'll give you passing because Lebron plays point-forward. But it's not like Wilt didn't have seasons where he had assist totals similar to Lebron's.
[QUOTE=pauk]A guy who puts up the stats he did? Only if the league once again averages ~150 possessions a game, compared to todays ~90....
[B]Will we see another Wilt? Yes, there has been similar players or even better.[/B]..[/QUOTE]
Not to be a stickler, but I am purely referring to stats. There's a reason why I didn't bring dominance into it, because it would start a Lebron vs Jordan vs Wilt battle etc.
It's not out of the question to think that Wilt could be very dominant stat wise in today's league with the lack of good centres.
Something like 25 points, 22 rebounds and 4 blocks is about right for him, depending on his role in the team.
The better question to ask is not will we see someone put up those kind of numbers again, because it would require a faster pace than has been played since that era.
The question to ask is will we ever see player who does the following:
Leads the league in scoring 7 times. Leads it in rebounding 11 times. Leads it in FG percentage 9 times. Is the assist leader once. Is a league leader in blocks the entire time (with one or two others - Russell and Thurmond).
Nobody else in history - not Oscar, not Mike, not Lebron - have led the league in that many categories. Now that is statistical dominance.
Interesting question, not necessarily in the stats sense, but could any player basically "break" the game of basketball in this era? Could any player be "too good for the game"? Shaq came close from 00 to 02, so I don't think it's impossible. Shaq and Jordan were two players that sometimes had you thinking they needed to be put in another, superior league than the NBA... only that league didn't exist.
[QUOTE=$LakerGold]:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Wilt's skill set makes Shaq blush. Wilt was much more skilled on top of that he was really tall, big, athletic, and strong. Wilt actually pride himself on his defense and rebounding. That makes him more dominant than Shaq.
[QUOTE=pauk]A guy who puts up the stats he did? Only if the league once again averages up to ~150 possessions a game, compared to todays ~90.... i seriously doubt that will happen.... i made a thread a time ago which might interest you on this topic: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294854[/url]
Will we see another Wilt? Yes, there has been similar Centers or perhaps even better... stats dont show it, but if you take a look at the thread above you will see why that is and how well other greats from modern era would do with Wilt's pace/poss. per game....[/QUOTE]
Serious question pauk: From where did you get the 150 possessions a game estimate? I've seen you cite it numerous times, but you've never provided calculations or a source. There have been three attempts at estimating pace in the basketball statistics community:
ElGee (6 >= 130, highest 135.9): [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRWc&type=view&gid=0&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=18&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=25[/url]
basketball-reference.com (5 >= 130, highest 133.3): [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRWc&type=view&gid=1&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=19&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=25[/url]
Dean Oliver (3>= 130, highest 132.9): [url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dE5jQnJyOG50ODNCZ0hpZFZpaGhnRWc&type=view&gid=2&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=NBA&sortcolid=18&sortasc=false&rowsperpage=25[/url]
Now I don't care about Wilt, but I've seen you casually throw this 150 number around enough that I had to intervene. If you have calculations/a valid source then please provide it, otherwise stop spreading misinformation, and edit that post to say 130 from now on (I say from now on because I've seen that exact post from you more than a half dozen times). Not everybody will put the work in to investigate, and might take that post as fact.
[IMG]http://i.minus.com/iHXWVpqaZYXb2.gif[/IMG]
We have already seen two players better - Kareem and Shaq
Also one that is comparable in Hakeem who won the same amount of rings
We saw Shaq who was pretty damn close in terms of size and athletic ability.
If there will ever be a rookie with a similar physical makeup ever again, I'd say probably yes, the precedent is set(it just might not be anytime soon).
Btw Cavsfan if you are reading this, have you seen the Sportscience poll that rated Bo Jackson the greatest athlete of all time?
If so, what are your thoughts about it?
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]We have already seen two players better - Kareem and Shaq
Also one that is comparable in Hakeem who won the same amount of rings[/QUOTE]
Maybe - it's debatable. The question is whether we'll ever see anyone either put up those kind of numbers again, or lead the league in that many categories.
The leading the league in different categories is more telling, because the game changes over time. So you can ask when was the last time someone led the league in scoring, rebounding and shot blocks in the same season like Wilt did for several seasons (here I am assuming he would have beat Russell out some of the time for blocked shots)? Or rebounding, shot blocking and FG%?
It would be the finals version of Shaq during the 3-peat over multiple seasons. So Shaq could have come close to what Wilt did in that sense, if he had been more motivated.
I would still consider Wilt a better shot blocker and rebounder than peak Shaq. But peak finals Shaq is in the ball park on those categories.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]We have already seen two players better - Kareem and Shaq
Also one that is comparable in Hakeem who won the same amount of rings[/QUOTE]
What exactly made Kareem and Shaq 'better' than Wilt? Their rebounding? Defense? Scoring? Passing?... They've got little to nothing on Wilt in terms of being "better" players, and they're actually lagging behind in most categories you could make up as far as responsibilites/duties of the center position goes. The crux of your argument is "rings" and in Kareem's case particularly, longevity and free throws. Only one of those things is an actual ability, they other two are just things that can effect "greatness" rankings depending on who you talk to. But at their peaks, prime Wilt was a better overall player than both of those guys.