Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson - Complete Career Head-to-Head Stats

[QUOTE=jlip]If I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that according to public opinion at the time, Bird was not considered better than Magic pre-'87? If so I have to disagree. I personally consider Magic greater overall, but I'm almost certain that before '87 the consensus was Bird.

As it pertains to winning, prior to '87 they both had the same number of rings and Bird had more MVPs. They were 1-1 in the Finals against each other. Also, Magic was not perceived by the masses as his team's leader before '87. Bird was. I even remember Magic saying in an interview that before Rilley asked him to take a larger scoring role in Kareem's absence in '87, many people considered him basically a "game manager" who didn't have to ability to take over a game with his scoring. Again, Magic may have already truly been the leader, but that wasn't the consensus. The '87 season and beyond are what swung the pendulum in Magic's favor in regards to the public perception of who was greater.[/QUOTE]

Bird before '84 was not consistent at all in the playoffs. Had one subpar series for almost every good series and when they won it all, nondescript Cedric Maxwell won FMVP. In '84 he has a great complete year which is what people were waiting for. But in '85 he isn't the best player on the team in the finals AGAIN despite a great year otherwise and the Celtics lose. But in '86 he has another great complete year. So the wave went back to Bird as the '87 season began. Magic reclaimed the wave for good in '87 when he produces the best film work of a player making other players better in the history of the game.

Before Magic and Bird the center position was the prime position. Now these two thinking, creative, make players around them better, superskilled players, turned the league over to perimeter players. This transition happened on Kareem's watch, probably years before when Barry could win it all without a solid player in sight and Kareem couldn't pull off the same. The game was decentralized because Kareem in his peak and prime showed that you can't dominate consistently from that position.

Kareem in his 8 year prime and peak was never as important as he was post prime with Magic and its not even close. Anybody can see a very simple narrative with Kareem as it relates to Magic. He becomes a winner after Magic's appearance. This is not questionable, nor does it have another narrative that makes sense. Magic could win with Kareem somewhat in the way - as Kareem ate up a ton a clock in his later years.

Magic's ability to make others around him much better and relevant was evident from day one. His versatility and all around offensive game was evident from day one along with his smarts, creativity, control, management, ability to fill MANY holes (like out rebounding his center) were all evident from day one.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Bird before '84 was not consistent at all in the playoffs. Had one subpar series for almost every good series and when they won it all, nondescript Cedric Maxwell won FMVP. In '84 he has a great complete year which is what people were waiting for. But in '85 he isn't the best player on the team in the finals AGAIN despite a great year otherwise and the Celtics lose. But in '86 he has another great complete year. So the wave went back to Bird as the '87 season began. Magic reclaimed the wave for good in '87 when he produces the best film work of a player making other players better in the history of the game.

Before Magic and Bird the center position was the prime position. Now these two thinking, creative, make players around them better, superskilled players, turned the league over to perimeter players. This transition happened on Kareem's watch, probably years before when Barry could win it all without a solid player in sight and Kareem couldn't pull off the same. The game was decentralized because Kareem in his peak and prime showed that you can't dominate consistently from that position.

Kareem in his 8 year prime and peak was never as important as he was post prime with Magic and its not even close. Anybody can see a very simple narrative with Kareem as it relates to Magic. He becomes a winner after Magic's appearance. This is not questionable, nor does it have another narrative that makes sense. Magic could win with Kareem somewhat in the way - as Kareem ate up a ton a clock in his later years.

Magic's ability to make others around him much better and relevant was evident from day one. His versatility and all around offensive game was evident from day one along with his smarts, creativity, control, management, ability to fill MANY holes (like out rebounding his center) were all evident from day one.[/QUOTE]

:bowdown:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Interesting that a near prime Kareem couldn't carry loaded rosters past team's with far less talent in the late 70's, and in as weak an era for champions as you will find (50-32 and 44-38 teams winning the title), but MAGIC immediately transformed them into a 60 win title team, and would carry those Laker teams to NINE Finals, and FIVE Rings, in his 12 years. And even after Kareem retired, Magic was still taking them to 63-19 and 58-24 records. And yet, after Magic retired, the Lakers fell flat on their face.

Hmmm...

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Here is their post-season scorecard folks...

'80...Magic by a mile

'81...Bird, even with a horrid Finals (Magic had missed half the season due to injury BTW)

'82...Magic...by a mile

'83...Magic

'84...This is interesting..."Tragic's" statline was probably at least the equal of Bird's, but since Bird was handed that ring...I'll go Bird, but just barely

'85...Easily Magic

'86.. Bird. The only post-season in which he was clearly better

'87...Magic and by several miles

'88... Magic by a continent

'89...Magic (well, you get the picture)

'90...Magic (again, just a lopsided margin)

'91...Magic (not even close.)


Hmmm... Bird "wins" in '81, '84, and '86
Magic "wins" in '80, '82, '83, '85, '87, '88, '89, '90, '91[/QUOTE]

Your scorecard reeks of bias.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Bird before '84 was not consistent at all in the playoffs. Had one subpar series for almost every good series and when they won it all, nondescript Cedric Maxwell won FMVP. In '84 he has a great complete year which is what people were waiting for. But in '85 he isn't the best player on the team in the finals AGAIN despite a great year otherwise and the Celtics lose. But in '86 he has another great complete year. So the wave went back to Bird as the '87 season began. Magic reclaimed the wave for good in '87 when he produces the best film work of a player making other players better in the history of the game.

Before Magic and Bird the center position was the prime position. Now these two thinking, creative, make players around them better, superskilled players, turned the league over to perimeter players. This transition happened on Kareem's watch, probably years before when Barry could win it all without a solid player in sight and Kareem couldn't pull off the same. The game was decentralized because Kareem in his peak and prime showed that you can't dominate consistently from that position.

Kareem in his 8 year prime and peak was never as important as he was post prime with Magic and its not even close. Anybody can see a very simple narrative with Kareem as it relates to Magic. He becomes a winner after Magic's appearance. This is not questionable, nor does it have another narrative that makes sense. Magic could win with Kareem somewhat in the way - as Kareem ate up a ton a clock in his later years.

Magic's ability to make others around him much better and relevant was evident from day one. His versatility and all around offensive game was evident from day one along with his smarts, creativity, control, management, ability to fill MANY holes (like out rebounding his center) were all evident from day one.[/QUOTE]

We are saying two different things. My position is that the [B]public opinion[/B] before 1987 was that Bird was the better player. This was partly do to the fact that [B]he was viewed[/B] as the leader of his team while Magic was [B]not viewed as the leader by the masses[/B].

Now...Was Magic actually better than Bird before 1987? Maybe? Was he truly the leader of the Lakers before 1987? Maybe. But that was not the general consensus at the time.

Trust me. Magic is my favorite player of all time, and IMO has a case for GOAT, but I'm simply stating what the opinion of these two players was in the 80's.

[QUOTE=jlip]We are saying two different things. My position is that the [B]public opinion[/B] before 1987 was that Bird was the better player. This was partly do to the fact that [B]he was viewed[/B] as the leader of his team while Magic was [B]not viewed as the leader by the masses[/B].

Now...Was Magic actually better than Bird before 1987? Maybe? Was he truly the leader of the Lakers before 1987? Maybe. But that was not the general consensus at the time.

Trust me. Magic is my favorite player of all time, and IMO has a case for GOAT, but I'm simply stating what the opinion of these two players was in the 80's.[/QUOTE]
I don't get this who was the leader of the team thing. The team before Magic was totally different than the team once he arrived with Magic being the only new piece. Magic was given the franchise contract his second year and in consequence Kareem, who never really had great connect with teammates, threatened to leave the team. I don't see how he could be considered the leader of the team under those conditions.

If you watched the games it's obvious as day who the decision maker was and you could not name me anybody in the history of the league that had more control of the game than Magic did? Who are you saying was the leader of the team?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]In '85, when Bird was in his incredible peak of three years, in the finals who was the best player for the Celtics? McHale also had pretty much better series than Kareem who guarded him a lot in that series. McHale guarded Bird's man too. Not only did he outscore Bird by 2ppg but he outshot him 598% to 449% and outrebounded him by 2 as well.

Also you don't mention how Magic took the legs of DJ, one of the most clutch players in the 80's and Danny Ainge. They shot 20% in that last game 6 for 31 because Magic ran them to death. Bird shot 40% in this game and this happened because Magic was the only player in the history of the game that could run on a made shot. It could qualify as one of the best defensive effects ever by a player. Magic legally took their legs from them.[/QUOTE]

McHale better than Kareem in '85 Finals? Please show me one source that claims that. Look at their assist numbers and clutch scoring from recaps. Bottom line is in the 1980 run and also the 1985 Finals Kareem > Magic and he should have won both FMVP's. I mean there is no way around that.

Of course when Lakers could force their tempo Magic would thrive but until 86-87 he wasn't a great half-court player.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]He simply made everyone around him so much better. My god, KAJ's FG%'s went thru the roof after Magic arrived. Worthy put up some ungodly FG% post-seasons. Byron Scott became a 20 ppg scorer because of Magic. He took Michael Cooper, who couldn't shoot a lick before he entered the NBA, and made him an effective 3pt shooter. The reality was, Magic made player-after-player, much better.[/QUOTE]

Kareem shot higher % in the 80's because he played at a higher pace and because he took far fewer shots. Sure Magic helped him but also vice versa. Kareem would retire with 1 title without Magic but Magic might have retired with 0 without Kareem.

[QUOTE=Psileas][/QUOTE]

Magic, Lebron, and Hakeem are my favorite all-time players. But the Kareem and Bird hate on this thread is ridiculous.



As for Magic vs. Bird let's really break it down. And don't forget Bird was a MUCH BETTER defensive player. Off-ball he was like a chess player anticipating his opponents' moves. He did things that don't show on the stat sheet like deny passes, cut off driving lanes, and forcing difficult shots without blocking them.

Magic quite truthfully was a liability against smaller PG's. He held his own against forwards which he usually covered and he could rack up steals but he was just about an average defender.

[B]79-80 [/B]

Bird joins a 29-win team and they win 60 games, biggest turnaround in league history at the time. He finishes 2nd in MVP voting and leads his team to the ECF putting 21/11/5 on 47% shooting in the playoffs.

There is no way Magic was better this year unless you take his Game 6 in the Finals and ignore everything else.

[B]80-81[/B]

Bird leads his team to an upset of the Sixers while handily outplaying MVP Dr. J. Of course he then wins a title title while averaging 22/14/6 on 47% shooting in the playoffs.

In 81-82 and 82-83 I can give Magic an edge but in '83 playoffs Bird suffered from a myriad of injuries. And Magic had a rather bad series in the '83 Finals.

[B]83-84[/B]

Bird leads his Celtics over the favored Lakers while averaging 28/11/6 on 52% shooting in the playoffs and 27/14/4 on 48% shooting in the finals. Meanwhile Tragic Magic chokes away two games.

[B]84-85[/B]

Again Bird is a monster in the playoffs averaging 26/9/6 on 46% shooting. By the end of the ECF against Sixers he suffers an injury and plays well below 100% but is still great in the finals putting up 24/9/5 on 45% shooting.

[B]85-86[/B]

No comment needed. Bird >>

[B]86-87[/B]

Bird averages 27/10/7 on 48% shooting and leads the heavily depleted Celtics with injuries to almost all starters except Larry to the Finals and a close loss to the Lakers. Magic is transcendent but barely better than Bird.

[B]87-88[/B]

Bird struggles against Detroit but look at his performances against the Hawks and all season long. He averages 25/9/7 on 45% shooting in the playoffs.

In 88-89, Bird's back gives out and he's never the same player again.

So in their first 9 years it's something like this.

Magic was easily better in '82 and '83
Magic was a bit better in '87 and '88
Bird was a bit better in '85
Bird was a lot better in '80, '81, '84, and '86

Overall for their careers I would take Magic over Bird by a hair because his prime was effectively 3 years longer. But those who watched both of them... Boston fans would say Bird is better, LA fans would say Magic is better, and all the neutral fans would refuse to rank them or put them side by side.

I never want to hear shit like Magic >>> Bird (or vice versa) ever again! Please for the love of god. :cheers:

I have no agenda here. Love them both, watched them both play. Have Magic ahead slightly all time. But a good argument could be constructed for 84-86 peak Bird.

This thread has two things about it that I find completely ridiculous:

The main one:
1. You can't compare head to head in this case (and such a small sample size), because Bird was going up head to head against [B]MICHAEL Freakin' COOPER[/B] in these games...not to mention Big Games James...
DJ was a great defender (in his prime especially), but the Celtics had small guards, and were no match at all for Magic size wise..pass/shoot over 'em all day..
Michael Cooper is one of the top defensive players ever...an NBA Defensive Player Of The Year...and the player who Bird said was the toughest player who ever guarded him...

So let's put things in perspective here:
It's like showing Bird's stats against Michael Cooper, Dennis Rodman (or any of the long rangy defender the Pistons would rotate against him) or Bobby Jones guarding him as opposed to smaller guards often in the West (the Lakers were so long across the board the time, it was hard for the other team to have all bigger people guarding them_ ...I mean c'mon I wonder which stats would be better...
I'm just saying a Bird statline of 25, 11, and 5 with 45% shooting against Michael Cooper is more like 30, 12, 7 with 50% shooting against almost anyone else...
Bird's going head to head with Bobby Jones and Michael Cooper and Rodman and the Pistons all the time in these long playoff series...while Magic's cruising up and down the court at will in the wide open West against the likes of Dallas and Denver...
No player ever had a bigger defensive challenge than Larry Bird did series after series in the '80's, where every team had a long[B] ALL TIME[/B] defender on his a** the whole game...these numbers in this thread are pretty worthless for that reason alone...

2. I was there watching Kareem and Magic and the Lakers as a kid at the time...Magic was clearly the leader of the Lakers hands down...Kareem could put up numbers because he had the hook and Magic got him the ball all the time...but Magic was clearly the most important cog from '82 on...unless you watched it, you wouldn't know..the poster who said the Lakers were Kareem's team until '87...what ARE you smokin? :pimp:

too bad larry couldnt come through in 3 title opportunities vs magic. no excuses either. bird shot .449% in the '85 finals and shot .445% in the '87 finals.....if he played well i wouldnt say shit..but lets be real... not only did he lose to magic's lakers 3 times, he played well below his standards in all 3 matchups.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]I don't get this who was the leader of the team thing. The team before Magic was totally different than the team once he arrived with Magic being the only new piece. Magic was given the franchise contract his second year and in consequence Kareem, who never really had great connect with teammates, threatened to leave the team. I don't see how he could be considered the leader of the team under those conditions.

If you watched the games it's obvious as day who the decision maker was and you could not name me anybody in the history of the league that had more control of the game than Magic did? Who are you saying was the leader of the team?[/QUOTE]

magic would have swept the sixers without kareem.....no big man to slow the team down. thats why the lakers scored a series high 123 pts without kareem in game 6. he(magic) did something that will never be done again....get handed the nba finals mvp as a rookie.....the magic man was the man.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]I don't get this who was the leader of the team thing. The team before Magic was totally different than the team once he arrived with Magic being the only new piece. Magic was given the franchise contract his second year and in consequence Kareem, who never really had great connect with teammates, threatened to leave the team. I don't see how he could be considered the leader of the team under those conditions.

If you watched the games it's obvious as day who the decision maker was and you could not name me anybody in the history of the league that had more control of the game than Magic did? Who are you saying was the leader of the team?[/QUOTE]

Kareem was considered the leader of team it seems. Right before the 1987 season, Pat Riley wanted Magic to be more aggressive and become the leader and first option of the team, and Magic wanted to ask if it was ok with Kareem first. I don't know what that entitles. Officially being captain of the team, vocal leader, first option, or whatever. It was documented that in 87, Pat Riley told Magic that he wanted him to score more and be the first option on the team. Magic, Riley and Kareem said this:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Zqj9p033g#t=44m10s[/url]

[quote]
"Everybody could see that we wasn't favorite pals or buddies the first three or four years. [B]I think I wanted him to know I wasn't trying to get into his territory; he was the man.[/B] But things came so fast for me that maybe he thought I was intruding. I don't know."

Kareem could see Magic holding back, but that was OK with Abdul-Jabbar. He wasn't the type to rush into a deep friendship, either.
[/quote]
[url]http://articles.latimes.com/1987-01-08/sports/sp-2903_1_magic-johnson[/url]

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]too bad larry couldnt come through in 3 title opportunities vs magic. no excuses either. bird shot .449% in the '85 finals and shot .445% in the '87 finals.....if he played well i wouldnt say shit..but lets be real... not only did he lose to magic's lakers 3 times, he played well below his standards in all 3 matchups.[/QUOTE]


Well in 85 he had an excuse because he was dealing with injuries, but the Celtics team in 85 was better than it was in 84. Plus he went against Michael Cooper, who Bird claims is the best defender to guard him.

And in 84, I always felt that he and Kareem were the best in the series. The team tried to stop Kareem more than they tried to stop Magic, and the Lakers stuck to Bird like glue if I can recall, but he was missing some jumpers and layups around the rim. But he battled for the boards against Kareem, and give his team extra chances. But the Lakers shot themselves in the foot mostly. In 85, the Celts I thought had the better team with Mchale becoming unstoppable and good defensively, but Bird got injured and didn't perform well.

And there are excuses, but Bird in general wasn't a better playoff performer than Magic.

[QUOTE=dankok8]McHale better than Kareem in '85 Finals? Please show me one source that claims that. Look at their assist numbers and clutch scoring from recaps. Bottom line is in the 1980 run and also the 1985 Finals Kareem > Magic and he should have won both FMVP's. I mean there is no way around that.
[/quote]
Kareem of the 80's was a byproduct of Magic. Simple question to you, who would you rather have: Kareem in his peak and prime or Kareem next to Magic. There is a reason for that.

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]

2. I was there watching Kareem and Magic and the Lakers as a kid at the time...Magic was clearly the leader of the Lakers hands down...Kareem could put up numbers because he had the hook and Magic got him the ball all the time...but Magic was clearly the most important cog from '82 on...unless you watched it, you wouldn't know..the poster who said the Lakers were Kareem's team until '87...what ARE you smokin? :pimp:[/QUOTE]

Not until 8 years into Showtime did Magic become better than Kareem my friend. Here are some articles that talk about how Magic finally took the torch from Kareem in 86-87 and became the leader of the Lakers.

[url]http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...f=64&t=1200219[/url]

[QUOTE]
Kareem passed the torch, unselfishly, realizing that at 40, he could no longer dominate the offense.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]“Everyone on the team accepted my new role, and that was the key,” said Magic, who has added an adaptation of Abdul-Jabbar’s sky hook to his showcase. “Kareem gave me the nod. He told me to take over, go for it. - Magic Johnson[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]“I never had doubts that I could do it, but there were other people to consider. Kareem, James [Worthy]. I didn’t know how they would be affected. It would have been frustrating if they hadn’t accepted my new role.
I knew I would eventually shoot more, but I thought it would be after Jabbar was gone.” - Magic Johnson[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]“I had doubts, repeated doubts that this would work,” Riley confessed. “I was unfamiliar with the territory I was treading. The first week of training camp was as chaotic as anything I’d ever been through. I was comfortable with the old offense. I had the greatest post player of all time. But I knew we had to make a change.”
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
This season’s Lakers were different from any previous Laker teams. When it came time for “Showtime,” the spotlight was on, not Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, as it had been for the previous decade, but Johnson. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Kareem of the 80's was a byproduct of Magic. Simple question to you, who would you rather have: Kareem in his peak and prime or Kareem next to Magic. There is a reason for that.[/QUOTE]

I'll take two superstars over one but prime 70's Kareem is better than any version of Magic or Kareem after '82.

This notion that Kareem needed Magic to make him is pretty crazy. Kareem led his team to a title in '71 on maybe the most dominant team ever. In '74 with Oscar playing like a role player, Lucious Allen, and no all-stars on his team Kareem led the Bucks to a Game 7 Finals loss against a vastly superior Celtics squad. He won 5 MVP's (tied for most overall) before Magic ever set foot on the court. He couldn't win more because he a) didn't have the right talent around him especially with the Lakers b) his teammates got injured. Apart from '73 playoffs Kareem played pretty damn great with many of those years on GOAT level. Look at how Kareem played in '70, '74, '77, and '79 for instance.

[QUOTE=dankok8]McHale better than Kareem in '85 Finals? Please show me one source that claims that. Look at their assist numbers and clutch scoring from recaps. Bottom line is in the 1980 run and also the 1985 Finals Kareem > Magic and he should have won both FMVP's. I mean there is no way around that.

Of course when Lakers could force their tempo Magic would thrive but until 86-87 he wasn't a great half-court player.



Kareem shot higher % in the 80's because he played at a higher pace and because he took far fewer shots. Sure Magic helped him but also vice versa. Kareem would retire with 1 title without Magic but Magic might have retired with 0 without Kareem.



Magic, Lebron, and Hakeem are my favorite all-time players. But the Kareem and Bird hate on this thread is ridiculous.



As for Magic vs. Bird let's really break it down. And don't forget Bird was a MUCH BETTER defensive player. Off-ball he was like a chess player anticipating his opponents' moves. He did things that don't show on the stat sheet like deny passes, cut off driving lanes, and forcing difficult shots without blocking them.

Magic quite truthfully was a liability against smaller PG's. He held his own against forwards which he usually covered and he could rack up steals but he was just about an average defender.

[B]79-80 [/B]

Bird joins a 29-win team and they win 60 games, biggest turnaround in league history at the time. He finishes 2nd in MVP voting and leads his team to the ECF putting 21/11/5 on 47% shooting in the playoffs.

There is no way Magic was better this year unless you take his Game 6 in the Finals and ignore everything else.

[B]80-81[/B]

Bird leads his team to an upset of the Sixers while handily outplaying MVP Dr. J. Of course he then wins a title title while averaging 22/14/6 on 47% shooting in the playoffs.

In 81-82 and 82-83 I can give Magic an edge but in '83 playoffs Bird suffered from a myriad of injuries. And Magic had a rather bad series in the '83 Finals.

[B]83-84[/B]

Bird leads his Celtics over the favored Lakers while averaging 28/11/6 on 52% shooting in the playoffs and 27/14/4 on 48% shooting in the finals. Meanwhile Tragic Magic chokes away two games.

[B]84-85[/B]

Again Bird is a monster in the playoffs averaging 26/9/6 on 46% shooting. By the end of the ECF against Sixers he suffers an injury and plays well below 100% but is still great in the finals putting up 24/9/5 on 45% shooting.

[B]85-86[/B]

No comment needed. Bird >>

[B]86-87[/B]

Bird averages 27/10/7 on 48% shooting and leads the heavily depleted Celtics with injuries to almost all starters except Larry to the Finals and a close loss to the Lakers. Magic is transcendent but barely better than Bird.

[B]87-88[/B]

Bird struggles against Detroit but look at his performances against the Hawks and all season long. He averages 25/9/7 on 45% shooting in the playoffs.

In 88-89, Bird's back gives out and he's never the same player again.

So in their first 9 years it's something like this.

Magic was easily better in '82 and '83
Magic was a bit better in '87 and '88
Bird was a bit better in '85
Bird was a lot better in '80, '81, '84, and '86

Overall for their careers I would take Magic over Bird by a hair because his prime was effectively 3 years longer. But those who watched both of them... Boston fans would say Bird is better, LA fans would say Magic is better, and all the neutral fans would refuse to rank them or put them side by side.

I never want to hear shit like Magic >>> Bird (or vice versa) ever again! Please for the love of god. :cheers:[/QUOTE]

You didn't refute a DAMN thing in my previous post...

Post-season play:

1980...only a complete idoot would claim that Bird was better than the well-deserving FMVP in a post-season. Hell, they won the deciding game without Kareem forcryingoutloud. Evidently he was holding Magic back...as evidenced by a Finals game far greater than Bird ever had.

1981. I gave that one to Bird by default, and not because Bird played well. He was simply awful in the Finals, and needed Ced Maxwell's well deserved FMVP to barely beat a 40-42 team in the Finals. In a season in which Magic missed half the year, and was eliminated in the post-season by a stupid best-of-three series, and in that series, Moses completely annihilated your boy KAJ.

1982. Here again, Bird struggled against the Sixers, while Magic destroyed them in the Finals. Not even close.

1983. Bird was injured, so what. Magic missed the last half of the '81 season. And, while Magic was not exceptional in the Finals, he also wasn't KAJ getting creamed by Moses, either.

1984. One bad Worthy pass, and one Magic missed FT cost LA a sweep, which would have easily earned Magic his third FMVP. KAJ gagged in the critical five, and Bird's teammates overcame his awful shooting in the clinching game seven (6-18 from the field) to win a FMVP. Here again, I gave this one to Bird, but not by much. "Tragic" put up an 18 ppg, 7.7 rpg (leading LA,...where was your boy KAJ?), 13.6 apg, .560 FG% Finals...while Bird shot .488 and Kareem an even worse .481 (just one of several in which he shot below the post-season norm.)

1985. KAJ was the FMVP, but Magic was CLEARLY better than Bird, who was only the FIFTH best player in the series, and was badly outplayed by his teammate McHale. What a disgrace.

1986. Thanks to Kareem's hug e dropoff from his regular season annihilation of Hakeem (actually thanks to Sampson's suffocating defense on KAJ, instead of a helpless Hakeem), the Lakers were stunned by the Rockets. Bird had a great Finals, and I would give him a clear edge here.

1987. Magic's '87 Finals was better than any that Bird ever dreamed of having, and Bird again wasted a fine effort by both DJ and McHale, and couldn't shoot for his life (.445.) And please...a CLOSE series??? The Lakers slaughtered Boston in three of their four wins, and won the close game because Magic made the winning shot, while Bird bricked his.

1988. Bird was awful against the Pistons...plain-and-simple. A Piston team that Magic destroyed, along with Worthy, while KAJ was a nice role player. Incidently, 87-88 was probably Bird's greatest regular season, too. And then he butchered the post-season. A CLEAR win for Magic (who SHOULD have won his 4th FMVP.) As a sidenote, has there ever been another GOAT candidate who played as awful as KAJ in the '88 post-season, and Finals (and just puked all over the floor in that game seven?)

1989. Bird was washed up. Meanwhile, magic carried LA to an 11-0 playoff record. But in the 11th win, they lost Byron Scott (and his 20 ppg) to a season ending injury, and then Magic in game two. Without Magic, and with Kareem a complete waste, the Lakers were swept. In any case, a HUGE edge to Magic.

1990. Without KAJ, Magic carries LA to a 63-19 record. And Bird actually had a good post-season for once, but it only lasted for five games, in a 4-1 blowout loss. Meanwhile, even in a second round loss, Magic was by far greater than Bird had been that post-season. Another solid win for Magic.

1991. While Bird was simply awful in the '91 post-season, Magic carried an injured and rapidly declining Laker team to the Finals. A HUGE wdge for Magic.

Those were the FACTS. And yes, Magic >>>>>> Bird in their post-season play.