Dunking Data For 1988-1993: MJ is the Goat In-Game Dunker for Wing Players

Lebron has no two footed jump. He`s also "only" quick in transition imho.

Jordan did it all - and better then everyone else. GOAT.

Those facials :bowdown: :bowdown:

This one is just insane!

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Warriors_ff386b9f086f55a04ef7357f890c6ddd.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=DJ Leon Smith]I agree. Look at the sophisticated defenses and defenders that LeBron carved up in the modern era.

[IMG]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg[/IMG]

vs Jordan LOL midgets!

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/iHwd5KuplF3Ml.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]


Ether most high. :cheers:

[QUOTE=DJ Leon Smith]I agree. Look at the sophisticated defenses and defenders that LeBron carved up in the modern era.

[IMG]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg[/IMG]

vs Jordan LOL midgets!

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/iHwd5KuplF3Ml.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
bad iso defense by the guard, retarded help by the big man and an extremly late contest by "10 inch vert" Ewing:roll:

Imagine what would LeBron do. Unlike Jordan, he would not actually be detrimental to his team's offense by jacking up 24 shots per game. Those Bulls teams would have few 120 oRTG seasons with him in MJ's place.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]bad iso defense by the guard, retarded help by the big man and an extremly late contest by "10 inch vert" Ewing:roll:

Imagine what would LeBron do. Unlike Jordan, he would not actually be detrimental to his team's offense by jacking up 24 shots per game. Those Bulls teams would have few 120 oRTG seasons with him in MJ's place.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/CruxisAurion/timetostopposting.jpg[/IMG]

Great thread btw 3ball.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]bad iso defense by the guard, retarded help by the big man and an extremly late contest by "10 inch vert" Ewing:roll:

[B]Imagine what would LeBron do.[/B][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/lebron-flop-3.gif[/IMG]

While Jordan would be easily the best slasher in the league now the numbers are still altered by the style of play in the 80s. Harder to get to thebasket in the halfcourt...but many more full court chances. Especially when playing the west. Teams would just let you run. Teams would run on made baskets.

Charles Oakley created quite a few of those 88 dunks off MJ taking off:

[IMG]http://oi57.tinypic.com/2czrldx.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://oi62.tinypic.com/2s0estf.jpg[/IMG]

That said...he would still get more today than any swingman.

[QUOTE=3ball]-
[B][U]Comparing Jordan's Dunking Data to Contemporaries[/U][/B]

For the 6 seasons between 1988 and 1993, Jordan had 746 dunks, or an average of 125 dunks per season.. His high was 158 (1988), and his low was 95 (1993)... (links to complete dunk data for each season are at the bottom of this post)

By comparison, from 2002-2009 (Kobe's athletic prime and highest volume period), Kobe averaged 65 dunks... Tracy McGrady averaged 75 dunks from 2001 to 2005 (his athletic prime and highest volume period)... Vince Carter in his prime and Paul George only get about 50 dunks per season.

Infact, Jordan's dunk totals dwarf every single wing player from this era except Wade, Lebron, and Durant... These are the only players that routinely amass over 100 dunks per year, although none of them have as many dunks over a 6-year period as Jordan - the high for any of these three players is 144, by Lebron this year.... Jordan has a season of 153 dunks and another with 158 dunks, and we don't have data for his biggest dunking year - 1987 when he averaged 37.1ppg on 27 shot attempts (still had 59%TS).


[B][U]Looking at the Dunking Environment Across Eras[/U][/B]

Of course, different eras use different rules and styles of play which affect how easy it is to get a dunk - this will sound crazy, but [I]Lebron dunked over defenders in a chest-to-chest scenario only 3 times the entire 2014 season - every other time the spacing and defensive 3 seconds prevented defenders from getting to the spot in time[/I]... and most of Lebron's dunks were completely wide open, not even a reach-in or fly-by - the 3-point shooting and floor-spacing creates too much ground and extra space for the defense to cover.... confirm for yourself... here are every single one of Lebron's dunks for the 2014 season - [I]only 3 posters[/I].

All Lebron dunks from 1st half of season... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCYKuK84cCQ[/url]
All Lebron dunks from 2nd half of season... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiApca7OtE0[/url]


After you've watched Lebron's dunks in the 2014 season, compare that to Jordan's dunks in 1987... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=2m12s[/url]

RIGHT AWAY you can tell that there's a massive difference - there is no spacing and less room between defenders because the defense is packed-in so they can better defend only 2-pointers, and shot-blocking big men are camped in the paint awaiting penetrators (rather than today's game where helping on penetration involves scrambling from the three-point line to the paint and then making sure you aren't in there for more than 3 seconds).

The lack of spacing meant Jordan had to frequently dunk over and through guys if he wanted to dunk - so much so, that even with the limited footage available from back then, it is easy to find literally hundreds of Jordan dunks over defenders... For example, listed below are links to various collections of Jordan posters (very partial collections)... you could never accumulate collections like this for Lebron, because today's game with the spacing doesn't allow this level of shot contestion, so Lebron doesn't even have a small fraction as many posters as Jordan has.

[url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797][u]Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders[/u][/url]

[url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395][u]Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers[/u][/url]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40][u]Various Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs)[/u][/url]



[B][U]Total Number of Dunks for Each Player in Various Seasons[/U][/B] (retrieved from 76er's Media Guides)

1988... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lb0whh&s=8#.U_0tH_ldX2U[/url]
1989... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ra47s3&s=8#.U_0qN_ldX2U[/url]
1990... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29aw57s&s=8#.U_0sDPldX2U[/url]
1991... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=qpikcz&s=8#.U_0tS_ldX2V[/url]
1993... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6i9zef&s=8#.U_02XvldX2U[/url]

88'-93'... [url]https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/s720x720/1795563_10204531167778660_7768591196828075347_n.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
Look no further than Jordan's dunks vs same era wings to see that the higher #s relative to today's league is more a product of the environment than a product of the player.

How often does Lebron james poster centers? I swear everytime he dunks on someone it's a guard.. :facepalm

[QUOTE=AirFederer]This one is just insane!

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Warriors_ff386b9f086f55a04ef7357f890c6ddd.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

If that was LeBron today he would have been at the line for 1.....although LeBron couldn't do this with his piss poor two legged hops

[QUOTE=Beastmode88]How often does Lebron james poster centers? I swear everytime he dunks on someone it's a guard.. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

I've been looking for a Lebron James poster on Roy Hibbert forever and then realized it was never coming. Hibbert can barely get off the ground but for some reason Lebron always seems to bitch up when he sees him in the paint instead of taking Hibbert's soul with a vicious dunk. Swingmen of the 90's would have posterized that scrub into submission and made him this era's Shawn Bradley by now.

[QUOTE=Beastmode88]How often does Lebron james poster centers? I swear everytime he dunks on someone it's a guard.. :facepalm[/QUOTE]I'll say this for James (as a few others have touched on in this thread), I believe his strong preference for one-footed takeoffs drastically reduces his poster opportunities. However, his one-footed explosion is a great strength of his, so I do not believe his approach is incorrect.

It's just, typically (though not always), one-footed posters will tend to happen when a defender is on a player's hip or is running to meet the player at the rim (such as on a fast break). Two-footed posters are much more versatile and more often include the ol' "defender waiting at the rim for a battle" scenario.

[QUOTE=3ball]-


[B][U]Total Number of Dunks for Each Player in Various Seasons[/U][/B] (retrieved from 76er's Media Guides)

1988... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lb0whh&s=8#.U_0tH_ldX2U[/url]
1989... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ra47s3&s=8#.U_0qN_ldX2U[/url]
1990... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29aw57s&s=8#.U_0sDPldX2U[/url]
1991... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=qpikcz&s=8#.U_0tS_ldX2V[/url]
1993... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6i9zef&s=8#.U_02XvldX2U[/url]

88'-93'... [url]https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/s720x720/1795563_10204531167778660_7768591196828075347_n.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]

Do the media guides include regular and postseason dunk totals or just regular season? How can we verify that without mere speculation?

[QUOTE=hitmanyr2k][B][U]I've been looking for a Lebron James poster on Roy Hibbert forever [/U][/B]and then realized it was never coming. Hibbert can barely get off the ground but for some reason Lebron always seems to bitch up when he sees him in the paint instead of taking Hibbert's soul with a vicious dunk. Swingmen of the 90's would have posterized that scrub into submission and made him this era's Shawn Bradley by now.[/QUOTE]

Lebron doesn't dunk on Hibbert. He just blocks Hibbert's dunks.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emoRlBi9OzU[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwgKwhd9VPo[/url]

[QUOTE=Young X]MJ is the best at dunking in traffic I've ever seen by far. [B]His combination of 1st step quickness, elite leaping ability of either 1 or 2 feet and fearlessness was unbeliveable. Vince's 1st step wasn't as good, Wade's vertical isn't as good, Bron doesn't have the same fearlessness or 1st step, Wilkins didn't have the same quickness, etc.[/B]

Sh!t like this...

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_over_Drexler_5a3411aa88633318670558bc6a82e9ed.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_with_the_Baseline_HopSt_f3dde741dd9364e1d67d426c26375b8c.gif[/IMG]

(sorry to steal your gifs OP)

The fact that there's no longer any handchecking/touch fouls to affect him is why I think he would murder the league even worse if he played today. It would literally be impossible to keep from getting to the rim, he's way too explosive.[/QUOTE]

That is true.

I prefer Nique as a dunker over Jordan, and Carter over both of them.

But for effectiveness? Different story, for the reasons in bold.