Navigation Efficiency

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[SIZE="3"][B]One Dribble, 3 Steps, Finish[/b] (completely legal in today's game).[/SIZE]


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[B]Junior highers doing the move - one dribble, 3 steps, finish:
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[B]In the 60's, you had to take another dribble in all these spots, which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.[/B]

[QUOTE=iamgine]Where is the proof that this kind of thing is being called in the 60s?[/QUOTE]
it's always annoying when someone wants you to "prove" something that is common knowledge, just because [I]they[/I] happened to be one of the minority that isn't aware.

it is very common knowledge that in the 60's, you couldn't carry or take extra steps while gathering the ball, and people's concept of what constituted a travel was much more stringent back then.

Many players, coaches, league officials, basically everyone has stated that most of the moves today would be carries or travels in the 60's.

Here's Elgin Baylor talking about this exact topic..
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjNS_oYE92E&feature=youtu.be&t=16m3s[/url]


Here's Walt Frazier talking about it in this article (his quote is excerpted below).. [url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/6035/nba-traveling-we-really-don-t-reference-the-rulebook[/url]

"[i]It's very blatant now,[/i]" says Walt "Clyde" Frazier. One of the greatest point guards in NBA history, Frazier is also, as a Knick team broadcaster, a close observer of today's game. "[i]They go twenty feet to the hoop without dribbling one time. This is what they are getting away with nowadays. Some of them are so obvious. You'll hear me on the broadcast saying 'That's a travel! Watch the feet!' Wilt [Chamberlain] would have averaged 100 points a game if they had let him do that."[/I]
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[QUOTE=3ball]completely standard though, so really it isn't travelling, because it's allowed in today's game.

in every single game tonight, the one-dribble-three-steps moves shown in the OP will be done literally dozens of times in every game - it is an extremely standard move, even for junior highers.
[/QUOTE]
Good point. I'd like to add that you would still get called often for this in Europe, especially in the junior games, where the reffing is stricter.

[QUOTE=iznogood]Good point. I'd like to add that you would still get called often for this in Europe, especially in the junior games, where the reffing is stricter.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, always used to get called for palming when i was a kid after I started watching the NBA (in the UK). They had standards of officiating that would make pretty much every NBA possession a turnover.

I feel like you made this just so you have another reason to call Jordan GOAT

[URL="http://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/6/19/4436230/james-hardens-use-of-the-gather-provision"]James Harden uses the gather provision to perfection for the Rockets[/URL]

A little wrinkle in the rulebook allows James Harden to take three steps legally and get into the paint at will. A film study of how Harden does it.

We see it every game. James Harden receives the ball above the three point line, takes a dribble towards the hoop, and suddenly takes off from right inside the arc, attacking, and contorting his way to the rim for a layup attempt. How does he pull this off though? He's so far away from the hoop, there's no way he can get to the rim legally with only two steps. The answer: He takes three. You're probably thinking "isn't that traveling?" Well, yes and no. The NBA only allows 2 steps on drives unless a player uses the "[U][B]gather provision[/B][/U]" as seen below:

[QUOTE]Rule 9, Section XIII, Item (b): A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.[/QUOTE]

As seen in the rule above, a player's 2 steps begin after "gaining control of the ball". To help make that clearer, a player is allowed a step to gather and collect the ball after a dribble and then take off with two more steps after gaining full control of the ball. Nobody in the league is better using this rule to their advantage than James Harden is. His mastery of using this rule is a large part of the reason he is so lethal when he attacks the rim for layups and fouls.

[QUOTE=KobesFinger]

I feel like you made this just so you have another reason to call Jordan GOAT

[/QUOTE]
correct, you know me well sir... glad you see the connection... :cheers:

but the argument in this thread is primarily to back [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10765797&postcount=177][u]this guy[/u][/url] - if he had been allowed to dribble like today's players, he would have been even more explosive....

the clip below shows Elgin doing the exact same move as all the GIFs posted itt, EXCEPT that instead of one dribble and 3 steps, he takes an extra dribble after the crossover, so he takes [i]TWO[/i] dribbles and 3 steps!... this was necessary to avoid getting whistled for travel and carry.

the extra dribble slows him down and robs him of momentum headed to the basket - in today's game, he would take ONE dribble here and 3 steps - without the extra dribble, he would be more in running mode like the previous GIFs itt, and accordingly, he'd generate much more momentum and have a chance to dunk on wilt chamberlain at the rim... :confusedshrug:


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Actually a smart thread.. Too bad OP is biased :ohwell:

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Actually a smart thread.. Too bad OP is biased :ohwell:[/QUOTE]
i'm actually not.

if someone came along that was better than MJ, i would be thrilled... that would be amazing... i'd be the first guy in line to see him with my tongue wagging.

like, pleeeease show me the guy that is better than MJ... I WANT to see that guy - that would be [I]utterly amazing[/I].. i love basketball.

[QUOTE=3ball]i'm actually not.

if someone came along that was better than MJ, i would be thrilled... that would be amazing... i'd be the first guy in line to see him with my tongue wagging.

like, pleeeease show me the guy that is better than MJ... I WANT to see that guy - that would be [I]utterly amazing[/I].. i love basketball.[/QUOTE]

There is no one... Although Kareem is right there.

You obviously have an anti-LeBron agenda, though.. Which is too bad because you could be alot better.

[QUOTE=3ball]i'm actually not.

if someone came along that was better than MJ, i would be thrilled... that would be amazing... i'd be the first guy in line to see him with my tongue wagging.

like, pleeeease show me the guy that is better than MJ... I WANT to see that guy - that would be [I]utterly amazing[/I].. i love basketball.[/QUOTE]
All three players who can be argued as on MJ's level had retired or were on the back 9s of their careers by the time he came into the league. Not much footage of Russell and Wilt. Some people aren't high on them because of when they played, so we can set them aside.

There's a good deal of tape of prime Kareem out there though. I think it's important to try and watch as much as possible. There's a lot of MJ stuff out there too fortunately (I didn't start watching live until the last year of the first threepeat, but there are dozens and dozens of his best games available).

[QUOTE=fpliii]All three players who can be argued as on MJ's level had retired or were on the back 9s of their careers by the time he came into the league. Not much footage of Russell and Wilt. Some people aren't high on them because of when they played, so we can set them aside.

There's a good deal of tape of prime Kareem out there though. I think it's important to try and watch as much as possible. There's a lot of MJ stuff out there too fortunately (I didn't start watching live until the last year of the first threepeat, but there are dozens and dozens of his best games available).[/QUOTE]

no, you can't set them aside. not happening.

3ball is actually trying to tell us three steps are legal? :roll:

Just cause the refs have turned a blind eye to it, doesn't make it legal. I guess 3 in the key is legal by your definition also since it's basically never called.

[QUOTE=MP.Trey]

I guess 3 in the key is legal by your definition also since it's basically never called.

[/QUOTE]
it's rarely called, because players make sure to keep the lane clear.

the league is very strict in making sure they call defensive 3 seconds, which is why the paint is kept clear on every possession in today's game.

if the league wasn't strict in enforcing the rule, than their objective of "opening up the game" would not be achieved... but it clearly has been.

btw, see the "gather provision" posted above by JohnMax, which the league instituted to formally legalize taking 3 steps with one dribble.

You know how difficult it is to call those travels in real time? Anyway, on that oldies clip, you can see how the player was unable to contour his body and set his feet properly to perform an explosive move. Back then, they didn't go low enough with the dribble and didn't have enough control and power on wide steps. You couldn't train or had difficulty training on these skills due to a lack of examples and inventions. It isn't too much about the referees letting it slide nowadays as much as it is that these 60s/70s players weren't exposed to such creativity yet. It wasn't a problem though because their defensive techniques weren't as advanced either. This is no knock on anyone as great players will always remain great based on the circumstance that surrounded them. I always rank players based on how dominant they were against their peers anyway. The main point is that in real time, these modern-era moves involving gathers and such is a pain to judge accurately. You don't blow the whistle on things you are iffy about.