Official SG comparison thread: 2006 vs. 1997 vs. 1990

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[B]All-Defensive Team SG's and SF's that guarded Kobe[/B]

Shawn Marion
Andre Igoudala
Paul George
Gerald Wallace
Bruce Bowen
Tayshaun Prince
Andrei Kirelinko
Lebron James
Jimmy Butler
Luol Deng
Ron Artest
Thabo Sefalosha
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10924107&postcount=24][u]Shane Battier[/u][/url]
Tony Allen
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3IQKeenIKw&t=8m51s][u]Raja Bell[/u][/url]
Dwayne Wade
Doug Christie
Larry Hughes



[B]All-Defensive Team SG's and SF's that guarded MJ[/B]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858][u]Dennis Rodman[/u][/url]
Michael Cooper
Derrick Mckey
Ronaldo Blackman
Alvin Robertson
Sidney Moncrief
Eddie Jones
John Starks
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9ayPlqCMg][u]Shawn Marion[/u][/url]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xca8mjSzjIo&t=0m28s][u]Doug Christie[/u][/url]
Anthony Mason
Clifford Robinson
Nate McMillan
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352753][u]Kevin Garnett[/u][/url]
Dan Majerle
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvquD3ktNbQ][u]Latrell Sprewell[/u][/url]
Joe Dumars
Dennis Johnson
Bobby Phills



[B]MJ's Best Two-Way Opponents:[/B]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24][u]Penny Hardaway[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322][u]Grant Hill[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365450][u]Kobe Bryant[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695321&postcount=8][u]Clyde Drexler[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744903&postcount=25][u]Dominique Wilkins[/u][/url]
Ron Harper
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373989][u]Reggie Lewis[/u][/url]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y][u]Ray Allen[/u][/url]
Sean Elliot
Michael Finley
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10744186&postcount=18][u]Kendall Gill[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30][u]Richard Dumas[/u][/url]
Nick Anderson
Jerry Stackhouse


Also, the list above doesn't include many of the tremendous offensive wings that MJ faced including: Dr. J, James Worthy, Bernard King, Mitch Richmond, Alex English, Glenn Robinson, Jamaal Mashburn, Detlef Schrempf, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, Fat Lever, Jeff Hornacek, Allan Houston, Jeff Malone, Glen Rice, [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360034][u]Kiki Vandeweghe[/u][/url]
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Do you realize that when MJ faced some of those defenders, he was missing the Playoffs (inb4 age excuse), right? Kobe was killing them and winning rings.

I know that The Golden Era of SG's was the 2000s era. So that would tie into 2006:

Kobe
Wade
T Mac
AI
Ray Ray
Vince
Manu

U are looking at 7 HOFers in that era. In 1990, u aren't gonna have that many HOFers at the SG. And peak wise, the 2000 era SG's will overtake that whole era other than MJ and Drexler. They would push back the rest of the guys. What made the 2000s era BEAST was u had the Golden Era of SG's and PF's going at the same time.

06 Kobe is the best player from the 3 lists and Wade 06 comes close

2006 is by far the best.

This thread;

[IMG]http://img.pandawhale.com/post-41349-jonah-hill-oscars-cut-it-out-g-w5Tc.gif[/IMG]

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[SIZE="3"][B]VERY FEW SG's and SF's achieve 100+ Dunks in a Season[/B]
[/SIZE]

[U]1988 - 1996[/U][COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR][U]2001 - 2014[/U]

Michael Jordan.................. Kevin Durant
Dominique Wilkins............. Lebron James
Clyde Drexler.................... Dwayne Wade
Scottie Pippen................... Carmelo Anthony
Penny Hardaway................ Kobe Bryant
Grant Hill.......................... Tracy McGrady
Ron Harper ...................... Andre Iguodala
Richard Dumas.................. Rudy Gay
Stacy Augmon................... Shawn Marion
Michael Finley.................... Richard Jefferson
Jerry Stackhouse
Cedric Ceballos
[B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"]Derrick McKey[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] [COLOR="Red"](All NBA Defensive Team)[/COLOR]
Roy Hinson
Chris Morris

[i][B]Sources[/B]: basketball-reference.com for 2001-2014; Philadelpia 76'er Media Guides and Harvey Pollack's Statistical Guides for 1988-1996, links for which are in this thread's OP: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352399[/url][/i]
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[QUOTE=aj1987]

MJ was missing the Playoffs (inb4 age excuse), while Kobe was [SIZE="3"][B]killing them[/B][/SIZE] and winning rings.

[/QUOTE]
"Killing them"???... :facepalm ... Look at Kobe's career averages vs. some dudes on that list:

[I]26 PPG on 43% vs. Bowen[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=bowenbr01[/url]

[I]24 PPG on 43% vs. Prince[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=princta01[/url]

:whatever:


Otoh, here's MJ's career stats vs. 1990 and 1991 DPOY Dennis Rodman ([url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374199][u]SF[/u][/url]) and HOF perennial 1st Team All-Defense Joe Dumars (37 games):

[I]30.5 PPG on 47% vs. [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858][u]Rodman[/u][/url]/Dumars[/i]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=rodmade01[/url]


Keep in mind, you included washed-up Gary Payton on Kobe's list, and Kobe got OUTPLAYED by washed up Payton.. In 28 games, Kobe only averaged 20.9 PPG on 43% to Payton's 21 PPG on 47%.. Meanwhile, MJ's career averages against [I]prime DPOY Payton[/I] was 30.5 PPG on 47% (15 games), and during those games MJ was going up against [I]in-their-prime All-NBA defenders [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10536861&postcount=264][u]Derrick McKey[/u][/url] and Nate McMillan AS WELL[/I]:

[I]MJ vs. Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=paytoga01[/url]
[I]Kobe vs. Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=paytoga01[/url]
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[QUOTE=ImKobe][B]06 Kobe is the best player from the 3 lists[/B] and Wade 06 comes close

2006 is by far the best.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://img.pandawhale.com/post-47705-michael-jordan-shaking-head-no-PinG.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=3ball]"Killing them"???... :facepalm ... Look at Kobe's career averages vs. some dudes on that list:

[I]26 PPG on 43% vs. Bowen[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=bowenbr01[/url]

[I]24 PPG on 43% vs. Prince[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=princta01[/url]

:whatever:


Otoh, here's MJ's career stats vs. 1990 and 1991 DPOY Dennis Rodman ([url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374199][u]SF[/u][/url]) and HOF perennial 1st Team All-Defense Joe Dumars (37 games):

[I]30.5 PPG on 47% vs. [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359858][u]Rodman[/u][/url]/Dumars[/i]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=rodmade01[/url]


Keep in mind, you included washed-up Gary Payton on Kobe's list, and Kobe got OUTPLAYED by washed up Payton.. In 28 games, Kobe only averaged 20.9 PPG on 43% to Payton's 21 PPG on 47%.. Meanwhile, MJ's career averages against [I]prime DPOY Payton[/I] was 30.5 PPG on 47% (15 games), and during those 90's games MJ was going up against in-their-prime All-NBA defenders [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10536861&postcount=264][u]Derrick McKey[/u][/url] and Nate McMillan AS WELL:

[I]MJ vs. Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=paytoga01[/url]
[I]Kobe vs. Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=paytoga01[/url][/QUOTE]


So you admit that Kobe played against better competition?

29 vs 17. :roll:


Also, stop PM'ing me.

EDIT: Dunking? :roll: Weak ass defenses.

The problem with this kind of comparison is we tend to think it's the prime version when it's not.

For example, Mitch Richmond was just sophomore in 1990. Reggie Miller was just on his 3rd year, which was the first good year he had. He'd be so far behind a 2006 Ray Allen.

[QUOTE=iamgine]

For example, Mitch Richmond was just sophomore in 1990. Reggie Miller was just on his 3rd year, which was the first good year he had. He'd be so far behind a 2006 Ray Allen.

[/QUOTE]
Obviously, it goes both ways - for his career, Kobe faced a [I]WASHED UP[/I] Gary Payton for 28 games, yet Payton still averaged 21 PPG to Kobe's 20 PPG.

[I]Whereas MJ got 31 PPG against the mid-90's Sonics THREESOME of prime, DPOY Gary Payton and All-NBA defenders [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11297382&postcount=36][u]Derrick McKey[/u][/url] and Nate McMillan:[/I]

[U]Career Averages:[/U]

[I]MJ vs. DPOY Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=paytoga01[/url]
[I]Kobe vs. Washed-Up Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=paytoga01[/url]


[QUOTE=iamgine]

The problem with this kind of comparison

[/QUOTE]
Just looking at the 3 columns of SG's in the OP, all three columns are competitive regardless of which way you lean..

Otoh, all the [I]frontcourt[/I] positions of previous eras blow today's game away - this is due to the 3-point shooting, which lessens the need for 2-point skill.. Just look at the SF's - it's quite clear that they [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11296175&postcount=25][u]blow today's SF's away[/u][/url] - [I]clearly, diverse mid-range repertoire > 3-and-D[/I]..

And obviously, the PF's and Centers of previous eras blow today's bigs away even MORE.

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[SIZE="4"][B]MJ Scoring on Michael Cooper[/B][/SIZE] [SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"][B]OFF-BALL[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]


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[QUOTE=aj1987]

29 vs 17. :roll:

[/QUOTE]
Troll.. take this L

Kobe's a 6'6" Iverson that happened to play with Shaq.. A fortuitous young man.. :applause:

[QUOTE=3ball]Obviously, it goes both ways - for his career, Kobe faced a [I]WASHED UP[/I] Gary Payton for 28 games, yet Payton still averaged 21 PPG to Kobe's 20 PPG.

[I]Whereas MJ got 31 PPG against the mid-90's Sonics THREESOME of prime, DPOY Gary Payton and All-NBA defenders [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11297382&postcount=36][u]Derrick McKey[/u][/url] and Nate McMillan:[/I]

[U]Career Averages:[/U]

[I]MJ vs. DPOY Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=paytoga01[/url]
[I]Kobe vs. Washed-Up Payton[/I]: [url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=paytoga01[/url]



Just looking at the 3 columns of SG's in the OP, all three columns are competitive regardless of which way you lean..

Otoh, all the [I]frontcourt[/I] positions of previous eras blow today's game away - this is due to the 3-point shooting, which lessens the need for 2-point skill.. Just look at the SF's - it's quite clear that they [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11296175&postcount=25][u]blow today's SF's away[/u][/url] - [I]clearly, diverse mid-range repertoire > 3-and-D[/I]..

And obviously, the PF's and Centers of previous eras blow today's bigs away even MORE.[/QUOTE]
No one's talking about MJ or era. I'm talking about the problem with this kind of comparison.