Lebron's time of possession in 2015 Finals was 50% higher than RS leader

[QUOTE=Monta Ellis MVP]As many of you may already know I am a big time Pacers fan but I am a fan of the Cavaliers as well. LeBron did have an uphill battle vs the Warriors and MVP Steph Curry and put up guady numbers, [B][COLOR="Red"]however it was at the sacrifice of ball sharing and an equal opportunity offense.[/COLOR][/B] LeBron put up a lot of points but his efficiency was way off, this plus the sheer amount of time he was dominating the ball lead to a non winning style of basketball and ended up hurting us overal. If LeBron mixed in more off ball game with less ball domination he could of gotten our 3 point shooters much more involved. This would of helped spread the floor for LeBron to start working inside again. Instead LeBrons ball dominating, playground style basketball allowed Golden State to gameplan accordingly and take the series.[/QUOTE]
Spot on

[QUOTE=3ball]Only if Dr. J was capable of good efficiency in the same spots Lebron had and at 33 FGA shot volume.

It's remarkable that Lebron fans and the media think it's impossible to shoot better than 39%...

especially while holding the ball 50% longer than anyone has all year and playing secluded 1-on-1 with no double-teaming... It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

So Cavs win with any iso scorer better than Bron?

Cavs win with Paul Pierce? Carmelo? Bernard King? Adrian Dantley? Connie Hawkins?

[QUOTE=FKAri]

I don't understand what you're trying to say in this thread

[/QUOTE]
[I]I'm saying Lebron's 2015 Finals wasn't all-time great because:[/I]


1) he held the ball 50% longer than anyone else did all year (this is amazing - 50 frieking percent more than the RS leader - lebron had LITERALLY all day to make his move)

2) he wasn't double-teamed

3) he employed a stat-friendly, playground style, so his stats lack integrity compared to those accumulated using an equitable, team approach (the only approach that has EVER won championships)

4) despite 1-3 above (50% longer time of possession, no double-teaming, stat-friendly style) - he only shot 39%

5) his defense was poor (again)

i agree. Thats why 2/6 is the best that he could do despite doing what others has never done-colluding.

[QUOTE=3ball][I]I'm saying Lebron's 2015 Finals wasn't all-time great because:[/I]


1) he held the ball 50% longer than anyone else did all year (this is amazing - 50 frieking percent more than the RS leader - lebron had LITERALLY all day to make his move)

2) he wasn't double-teamed

3) he employed a stat-friendly, playground style, so his stats lack integrity compared to those accumulated using an equitable, team approach (the only approach that has EVER won championships)

4) despite 1-3 above (50% longer time of possession, no double-teaming, stat-friendly style) - he only shot 39%

5) his defense was poor (again)[/QUOTE]

So all those guys I listed earlier would've won in Lebron's place, right?

Also, how come if I post something that goes against what you say, it's "media" being wrong.

If the stats are neutral or in your favor, they are real?

I already linked this and you didn't respond:
[url]http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-james-may-go-down-as-the-greatest-loser-ever/[/url]

You just go in circles man. There is no point in debating.

[QUOTE=FKAri]So Cavs win with any iso scorer better than Bron?

Cavs win with Paul Pierce? Carmelo? Bernard King? Adrian Dantley? Connie Hawkins?[/QUOTE]
No, only the very best can shoot well at high volume while still contributing in other areas (like defense).

MJ, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Bird, Kareem, and more - these guys would've won with that Cavs team, assuming they shot better than Lebron's 39%.

[I]Do you think it's impossible or something to shoot better than 39%?... Do you think the Cavs still lose if Lebron shoots 45 or 50%?.. The way you guys defend Lebron's 2015 Finals, it's like you think these things.[/I]

[QUOTE=FKAri]

I already linked this and you didn't respond:
[url]http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-james-may-go-down-as-the-greatest-loser-ever/[/url]

[/QUOTE]
Lebron shot 39%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His totals equaled MJ's, except he shot 12 percentage points worse!!!!!!!!!.. He also employed a playground, stat-padding style, while MJ achieved his stats within winning, team concept.

Why ignore this?

Again, do you think it's impossible to shoot better than 39%?... Do you think the Cavs still lose if Lebron shoots 45 or 50%?.. The way you guys defend Lebron's 2015 Finals, it's like you think these things.
.

great leaders trust their teammates. And thats what lebron and lebron fans dont get. Theres a reason why russell, duncan, magic are the greatest winners coz they trust their teammates to do their roles. Meanwhile bran wouldnt, not because he doesnt trust them but because playing off ball means sacrificing stats, which is actually worse than not trusting them. The guy is selfish. Just like oscar robertson was considered cancer. These 3, bran, wilt, oscar, are the greatest losers of all time which also happens to be the greatest statpadder. Coincidence? Nah..

[QUOTE=3ball]No, only the very best can shoot well at high volume while still contributing in other areas (like defense).

MJ, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Bird, Kareem, and more - these guys would've won with that Cavs team, assuming they shot better than Lebron's 39%.

[I]Do you think it's impossible or something to shoot better than 39%?... Do you think the Cavs still lose if Lebron shoots 45 or 50%?.. The way you guys defend Lebron's 2015 Finals, it's like you think these things.[/I][/QUOTE]

No center wins in place of Bron. The team wouldn't be able to bring the ball up the court. Guard play would be a disaster when Dellavadova is your best player.

Bird, MJ, maybe Kobe give them similar chances as they had with Bron. Sure they'd get doubled more and fouled more as well. But the outcome of the game wouldn't change much.

[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron shot 39%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

His totals equaled MJ's, except he shot 12 percentage points worse!!!!!!!!!.. He also employed a playground, stat-padding style, while MJ achieved his stats within winning, team concept.

Why ignore this?

Again, do you think it's impossible to shoot better than 39%?... Do you think the Cavs still lose if Lebron shoots 45 or 50%?.. The way you guys defend Lebron's 2015 Finals, it's like you think these things.
.[/QUOTE]

Team concept goes out the window when you lose 2 out of your top 3 players on an already top heavy team. Why are you cherry picking evidence?

[QUOTE=FKAri]

Bird, MJ, maybe Kobe give them similar chances as they had with Bron. Sure they'd get doubled more and fouled more as well. [B]But the outcome of the game wouldn't change much.[/B]

[/QUOTE]
[I]Do you think the Cavs still lose if Lebron shoots 45%+, or are you saying MJ couldn't have shot 45%?[/I]
.

[QUOTE=FKAri]

Team concept goes out the window when you lose 2 out of your top 3 players on an already top heavy team. [B]Why are you cherry picking evidence?[/B]

[/QUOTE]
Horseshit - a team should still play like a team when they lose their top guys - they shouldn't just clearout everytime for the best player like it's AAU.. This is what the Cavs did and this is why I can't respect Lebron's stats (although thee 39% already prevented any respect level)

Btw, I'm cherry-picking Lebron's 39%?

Again, do you think the Cavs still lose if Lebron shoots 45%+, or are you saying MJ couldn't have shot 45%?

[QUOTE=FKAri]

But the outcome of the game wouldn't change much.

[/QUOTE]
Are you that stupid that you think 39% is the best anyone could've done?

GTFO... That's why I said you were a dumbass earlier.

[QUOTE=3ball]Horseshit - a team should still play like a team when they lose their top guys - they shouldn't just clearout everytime for the best player like it's AAU.. This is what the Cavs did and this is why I can't respect Lebron's stats (although thee 39% already prevented any respect level)

Btw, I'm cherry-picking Lebron's 39%?

Again, do you think the Cavs still lose if Lebron shoots 45%+, or are you saying MJ couldn't have shot 45%?[/QUOTE]


If MJ starts shooting 45 he'll draw more defensive attention. This will bring his % down. When it goes down enough he will be forced to pass to the open man or pass it out. Who is he passing to? Who else will score? If MJ averages 40ppg (big IF vs the Warriors great perimeter D) over the series that means the rest of the team still has to make up 60 points.

How till this happen?

Three things can happen. A: MJ's gonna playmake. Ok now you're asking him to do even more. You're asking him to score AND playmake. And not just natural, kick it out to the open guy for an easy 2. [B]Because in today's zone defense you can get doubled without there being a pass that will lead directly to a basket.[/B] You're basically asking him to run sets. You're asking him to play PG.

B: He kicks it out for a reset. Now you're asking someone else to playmake. Who's doing that on that roster?

C:MJ swings the ball. If you have a team of great role players they will be able to make the correct pass immediately to the weakside and get it to a finisher or shooter. Who's doing that on the Cavs? And who are the great finishers?

[QUOTE=FKAri]

[B]If MJ starts shooting 45%, he'll draw more defensive attention[/B].....

[B](But) Who is he passing to? Who else will score? And who are the great finishers?
[/B]
[/QUOTE]
You're being contradictory - on one hand, you concede that Jordan would get double-teamed and attract more defensive attention than Lebron... But then you say it makes no difference because the Cavs don't have anyone that can finish... You can't have it both ways - if MJ gets doubled, teammates will get better looks than what they got with Lebron.

[I]Btw, it's interesting - in 2014 Finals, the Spurs didn't double Lebron because he only shot 17 times per game... In the 2015 Finals, Lebron doubled this volume to 33 fga, but he still didn't get doubled because he shot so poorly at the higher volume.[/I]

fkari is fos