FACT: MJ never lost a series where his team had the HCA.

I always bring this up and I'm gonna do it again. In Jordan's 15 seasons he was on a contender only from '90-'98.

Outside of those years, every other team he was on was terrible.

He and the Bulls had about 7 realistic chances to win a ring and they ended up with 6 of them.

The one they didn't get? Took the defending (and eventual repeat champion) Pistons to game 7 of the ECF as the underdog in 1990. Jordan averaged about 32/7/6 on 57 TS% in the series against one of the toughest defenses of all time. Maybe they could've won if Pippen didn't have that migraine.

[QUOTE=Young X]I always bring this up and I'm gonna do it again. In Jordan's 15 seasons he was on a contender only from '90-'98.

Outside of those years, every other team he was on was terrible.

He and the Bulls had about 7 realistic chances to win a ring and they ended up with 6 of them.

The one they didn't get? Took the defending (and eventual repeat champion) Pistons to game 7 of the ECF as the underdog in 1990. Jordan averaged about 32/7/6 on 57 TS% in the series against one of the toughest defenses of all time. Maybe they could've won if Pippen didn't have that migraine.[/QUOTE]

And '95?

Replacing Grant on a 55 win roster?

[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]Context is key here. When looking back, we see that the Pistons were in the midst of a dynasty. They were just the better team. MJ having an off game means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Yes, even the GOAT can have off games. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
An off-game is 7-26 or 6-27

Only registering 8FGA in the biggest playoff game of your career sounds more like he quit or gave up before the game even started.

So in short, the Bulls DID really have a chance. Could have went up 3-2 in the series with game 6 in Chicago, but MJ had other plans.

[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]MJ only played 17 games. He simply didn't have his basketball legs under him and just wasn't in rhythm with his teammates. It takes longer than 17 games to get in sync with the game. And he proved this by 3 peating. :cheers:[/QUOTE]

But an injured Wilt, or a Wilt who had major knee surgery, came back way before expectations, played three poor regular season games...and loses a game seven in the Finals against a heavily-favored Knick team, in a game in which he hung a 21-24 statline, in a series in which he hung a 23-24 .625 FG% stat-line? Nope, no excuses for Wilt.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]An off-game is 7-26 or 6-27

Only registering 8FGA in the biggest playoff game of your career [B]sounds more like he quit or gave up before the game even started.
[/B]
So in short, the Bulls DID really have a chance. Could have went up 3-2 in the series with game 6 in Chicago, but MJ had other plans.[/QUOTE]

He DID quit. Flat out quit on his team.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]And '95?

Replacing Grant on a 55 win roster?[/QUOTE]- No homecourt
- 5th seed
- Only 17 games with the team coming from baseball

:applause:

[QUOTE=Young X]- No homecourt
- 5th seed
- [B]Only 17 games [/B]with the team coming from baseball

:applause:[/QUOTE]
Yet after his 4th or 5th game back, he dropped 55 on the Knicks and the word was:

"MJ's back, he never missed a beat. He's GOD!!!!"

[QUOTE=Young X]- No homecourt
- 5th seed
- Only 17 games with the team coming from baseball

:applause:[/QUOTE]

So Grant was more valuable to this same roster than MJ was?

Again, luckily for MJ that ownership realized that...and then ADDED Rodman to a roster that had MJ replacing a player on a 55 win team.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Yet after his 4th or 5th game back, he dropped 55 on the Knicks and the word was:

"MJ's back, he never missed a beat. He's GOD!!!!"[/QUOTE]
Whqt does that have to do with the OP? He never lost with HCA

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Why does MJ get needed context, but not the other way around?

That in and of itself shows you why this is a contrived achievement (nevermind a team one). Nobody would think any less of MJ, or you, if you just admitted that. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]But an injured Wilt losing to the greatest dynasty in NBA history, and in a series in which he pummelled Russell counts against Wilt.

Makes perfect sense.

MJ gets an excuse for his numbers declining considerably against the Bad Boys, and for quitting on his team in a pivotal game five...but no excuses for Wilt.

Yep...no bias there.[/QUOTE]

exactly

ok - jordan didn't lose with homecourt. all well and fine, but don't pretend jordan did it playing any of the teams in the op. or the teams i listed on the first page.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Yet after his 4th or 5th game back, he dropped 55 on the Knicks and the word was:

"MJ's back, he never missed a beat. He's GOD!!!!"[/QUOTE]He also dropped 51 as an old cripple on the Wizards. Who cares. One game doesn't mean shit.

[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]1984-85 - Bulls 38-44 - Lost to Milwaukee (59-23)
1985-86 - Bulls 30-52 - Lost to Celtics (67-15) - [B]Champs[/B]
1986-87 - Bulls 40-42 - Lost to Celtics (59-23) - Lost Finals
1987-88 - Bulls 50-32 - Lost to Pistons (54-28) - Lost Finals
1988-89 - Bulls 47-35 - Lost to Pistons (63-19) - [B]Champs[/B]
1989-90 - Bulls 55-27 - Lost to Pistons (59-23) - [B]Champs[/B]


MJs numbers from this period (first 6 seasons):

Reg season: [B]32.8 PPG, 29.9 PER, 6.3 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.8 spg[/B]
Playoffs: [B]35.8 PPG, 29.7 PER, 6.9 rpg, 6.7 apg, 2.5 spg[/B]

We all know what he did starting the 1990-91 season. But this gives you a perspective on what type of help MJ had and what type of teams he had to go up against. All-time great, legendary teams. He really had no chance. It wasn't until Pippen and Grant matured along with PJ coming on board as coach when MJ had enough firepower to start beating elite teams. But look at his individual numbers during this time, just dominant from the get go. This is what the GOAT does.

Drop the mic.[/QUOTE]

otoh LeBron has lost multiple times while having HCA

[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]1984-85 - Bulls 38-44 - Lost to Milwaukee (59-23)
1985-86 - Bulls 30-52 - Lost to Celtics (67-15) - [B]Champs[/B]
1986-87 - Bulls 40-42 - Lost to Celtics (59-23) - Lost Finals
1987-88 - Bulls 50-32 - Lost to Pistons (54-28) - Lost Finals
1988-89 - Bulls 47-35 - Lost to Pistons (63-19) - [B]Champs[/B]
1989-90 - Bulls 55-27 - Lost to Pistons (59-23) - [B]Champs[/B]


MJs numbers from this period (first 6 seasons):

Reg season: [B]32.8 PPG, 29.9 PER, 6.3 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.8 spg[/B]
Playoffs: [B]35.8 PPG, 29.7 PER, 6.9 rpg, 6.7 apg, 2.5 spg[/B]

We all know what he did starting the 1990-91 season. But this gives you a perspective on what type of help MJ had and what type of teams he had to go up against. All-time great, legendary teams. He really had no chance. It wasn't until Pippen and Grant matured along with PJ coming on board as coach when MJ had enough firepower to start beating elite teams. But look at his individual numbers during this time, just dominant from the get go. This is what the GOAT does.

Drop the mic.[/QUOTE]


Never lost with HCA, undefeated in the NBA Finals, never lost in the Olympics, undefeated in championship games/series (NCAA, Olympics, NBA Finals).

GOAT. Straight up GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[QUOTE=Young X]He also dropped 51 as an old cripple on the Wizards. [B]Who cares. One game doesn't mean shit.[/B][/QUOTE]
Except for the fact when MJ scored 55 against the NYK his 5th game back.
it meant shit!!!!

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Except for the fact when MJ scored 55 against the NYK his 5th game back.
it meant shit!!!![/QUOTE]

I don't think there's any debate that Jordan wasn't fully himself in 1995. You cannot have a 2 year absence and return to top form in 17 games. Not at the highest level of basketball. More importantly, it's impossible to establish (or reestablish) championship level chemistry in that short a time frame. He was certainly capable of a dominant single game performance, he could do that on talent alone, but it takes time to fine-tune all the nuances of the game.