Horace Grant is a worse 3rd option than...

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[I]THREAD CLIFFS:[/I]


1) Pippen was decent, but he was worse than a TON of other [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393881]2nd options[/url]

2) This thread begins to list the plethora of 3rd options better than Grant - there's far too many to list - he was worse than nearly half the league's 3rd options, and MOST 3rd options on championship teams

3) As a [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393894]4th option[/url], BJ Armstrong was NOWHERE NEAR the 4th options on Magic's Lakers (Byron Scott, Cooper, AC Green), Bird's Celtics (Dennis Johnson), Kobe's Lakers (Bynum, Ariza, Ron Artest), Duncan's Spurs (Kawhi or Manu).. Armstrong was as ordinary as they come.


[I]Since MJ had a weaker supporting cast compared to many other teams, he was required to score 10 ppg more than his 2nd option for every playoff series of his career (except two, where he scored 8 ppg and 5 ppg more), and [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392376]50%[/url] of his team's 4th quarter points in playoffs and Finals (while on the floor)..

No other #1 option was required to do anything NEAR this.. MJ simply carried the goat burden on his shoulders - it's statistical fact.[/I]

In the playoffs during championship seasons

'91-'93 Grant: 12/8/3 on 56%
'12-'13 Bosh: 13/8/1 on 47%

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]In the playoffs during championship seasons

'91-'93 Grant: 12/8/3 on 56%
'12-'13 Bosh: 13/8/1 on 47%[/QUOTE]


:lebronamazed:

Vernon Maxwell and Robert Horry were the second and third options for Hakeem in 1994.

That's an all-time low for championship supporting casts.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]

In the playoffs during championship seasons

'91-'93 Grant: 12/8/3 on 56%
'12-'13 Bosh: 13/8/1 on 47%

[/QUOTE]
Those stats are about equal, and Bosh's stats were easily better than Grant's when you include the other 90% of their time as 3rd options..

[I][COLOR="Navy"]But more importantly, Bosh was an all-star both years, while Grant wasn't (and Bosh was all-star 10 times overall, compared to once for Grant), [B]so he was considered a top forward in his conference, and therefore better relative to his competition than Grant [/B][/COLOR][/I].

Try again bud.
.

[IMG]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=livinglegend]

[url=https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png]538's rankings of supporting cast[/url]

[/QUOTE]
[B]The [url=https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png]538 rankings[/url] show that MJ's 1991 and 1993 casts rank far lower than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts, which means MJ won with less than Lebron won with... MJ was capable of winning with less..

[I][COLOR="DarkRed"]Could MJ have won with Lebron's 2007 or 2015 casts?[/COLOR][/I]... Probably, since he would've scored a lot more and he would've shot much better than 35% and 39%, respectively, that's for certain..[/B]
.

[QUOTE=3ball]Those rankings show that supporting casts rank near the bottom
[/B][/QUOTE]

False, they are near the top
[IMG]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=livinglegend]

[url=https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png]538's rankings of supporting cast[/url]

[/QUOTE]
Those rankings show that Jordan's 1991 and 1993 supporting casts rank near the bottom [I][COLOR="Navy"]and much lower than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts[/COLOR][/I].

[B]Since Jordan's 1991 and 1993 casts rank far lower than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts, that means Jordan won with less than Lebron won with... Jordan was capable of winning with less than the [U]former[/U] best player in today's game..
[/B].

[QUOTE=3ball]Those rankings show that Jordan's supporting casts rank near the bottom [I][COLOR="Navy"]


[/B].[/QUOTE]

False, they are near the top. The top one is from jordan s team. [IMG]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png[/IMG]

Cliffs:

1-9

[QUOTE=3ball][B]Bosh's stats were easily better than Grant's when you include the other 95% of their careers..[/B]

[I][COLOR="Navy"]But more importantly, Bosh was an all-star both years, while Grant wasn't (and Bosh was all-star 10 times overall, compared to once for Grant), [B]so he was considered [/B]a top forward in his conference, and therefore better relative to his competition than Grant[/COLOR][/I].

Try again bud.[/QUOTE]

I guess I'm in the minority on this board that just doesn't give a **** about Bosh's 20 ppg seasons in Toronto. They didn't mean anything, they didn't lead to playoff success (or barely the playoffs at all) or personal accolades (1 All-NBA selection in his career, 1 top 10 MVP finish, never led the league in any statistical category). You give Grant 15-17 shots on a terrible team, he could probably average 20 ppg too, or close to it.

This thread is about how they performed as third options, and when they won titles they were basically dead even in production.

[QUOTE=dubeta]Cliffs:

1-9[/QUOTE]

ETHER

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]This is gold.

Just when 3ball dominates ISH by pointing out how worse of a 2nd option pippen was relative to other 2nd options, he hits yo' ass with a Horace grant being the worst 3rd option and provides even FURTHER evidence that MJ was so GOAT that he needed the least amount of help to achieve finals perfection.

Did MORE with LESS!

That's the new MJ GOAT motto for all of ISH to follow![/QUOTE]


WHY ARE PEOPLE EVEN ARGUING THIS? :hammerhead: :banghead:

[QUOTE=livinglegend]

False, they are near the top.

[/QUOTE]
[B]The [url=https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png]538 rankings[/url] show that MJ's 1991 and 1993 casts rank far lower than Lebron's 2012 and 2013 casts, which means MJ won with less than Lebron won with... MJ was capable of winning with less..

[I][COLOR="DarkRed"]Could MJ have won with Lebron's 2007 or 2015 casts?[/COLOR][/I]... Probably, since he would've scored a lot more and he would've shot much better than 35% and 39%, respectively, that's for certain..[/B]