MJ was more dominant in 97' & 98' runs than Lebron's 12' & 13

[QUOTE=tmacattack33]

What does "percentage of team assists" have to do with anything? [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]If a team doesn't get many assists that will unreasonably raise the value of somebody's assists[/COLOR][/B] in this useless stat of yours.

[/quote]
I'm deducing that you weren't good at math in school.

A player's percentage or PROPORTION of his team's assists shows the assist load he carries on that team - Jordan's proportion (or load) of points + assists was higher, when you account for turnovers (subtract his proportion of turnovers).


[QUOTE=tmacattack33]

Also, are you using turnovers in that formula or "percentage of team's turnovers"? [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]If just turnovers then your whole formula is unbalanced.

Show us your formula. [/COLOR][/B]

[/QUOTE]
The math works out correctly.

For instance, if a team has 5 assists and 5 TO's, and Lebron has 1 assist and 1 TO, then he had 20% of his team's assists and 20% of their TO's, so it's a wash... The assists cancel out the TO's.


[QUOTE]

[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]Anyway, these are the stats:[/COLOR][/B]

[B]MJ over second three peat:[/B] 6.0 reb, 4.1 assists, 31.4 points on .56 TS%

[B]Lebron in the playoffs in Miami:[/B] 8.36 rebounds 6.4 assists, 26.9 points on .595 TS%

[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR="Blue"]^^^^^ I like how you put the scoring last... :oldlol: ... But those stats are raw numbers and don't reflect each player's respective proportion of team points, assists and turnovers (their offensive load).

Said another way, here's each player's proportion of their team's points + assists, after accounting for turnovers - these are the only numbers that matter when evaluating who carried the bigger offensive load:[/COLOR][/B]


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="2"][I]Percentages of team points + assists - turnovers while player was on floor[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]40.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]51.2[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]53.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]48.2[/url]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]52.0[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]41.1[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]52.4[/url]

[I][B]LEBRON 2012[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]31.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]39.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]34.1[/url]
[I][B]LEBRON 2013[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]45.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]51.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]46.5[/url]

[QUOTE=3ball]I'm deducing that you weren't good at math in school.

A player's percentage or PROPORTION of his team's assists shows the assist load he carries on that team - Jordan's proportion (or load) of points + assists was higher, when you account for turnovers (subtract his proportion of turnovers).



The math works out correctly.

For instance, if a team has 5 assists and 5 TO's, and Lebron has 1 assist and 1 TO, then he had 20% of his team's assists and 20% of their TO's, so it's a wash... The assists cancel out the TO's.



[B][COLOR="Blue"]^^^^^ I like how you put the scoring last... :oldlol: ... But those stats are raw numbers and don't reflect each player's respective proportion of team points, assists and turnovers (their offensive load).

Said another way, here's each player's proportion of their team's points + assists, after accounting for turnovers - these are the only numbers that matter when evaluating who carried the bigger offensive load:[/COLOR][/B]


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="2"][I]Percentages of team points + assists - turnovers while player was on floor[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]40.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]51.2[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]53.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]48.2[/url]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]52.0[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]41.1[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]52.4[/url]

[I][B]LEBRON 2012[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]31.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]39.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]34.1[/url]
[I][B]LEBRON 2013[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]45.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]51.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]46.5[/url][/QUOTE]
Show us the stats of your thread posting that doesn't involve Jordan

[QUOTE=3ball]I'm deducing that you weren't good at math in school.

A player's percentage or PROPORTION of his team's assists shows the assist load he carries on that team - Jordan's proportion (or load) of points + assists was higher, when you account for turnovers (subtract his proportion of turnovers).



The math works out correctly.

For instance, if a team has 5 assists and 5 TO's, and Lebron has 1 assist and 1 TO, then he had 20% of his team's assists and 20% of their TO's, so it's a wash... The assists cancel out the TO's.



[B][COLOR="Blue"]^^^^^ I like how you put the scoring last... :oldlol: ... But those stats are raw numbers and don't reflect each player's respective proportion of team points, assists and turnovers (their offensive load).

Said another way, here's each player's proportion of their team's points + assists, after accounting for turnovers - these are the only numbers that matter when evaluating who carried the bigger offensive load:[/COLOR][/B]


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="2"][I]Percentages of team points + assists - turnovers while player was on floor[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]40.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]51.2[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]53.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]48.2[/url]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]52.0[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]41.1[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]52.4[/url]

[I][B]LEBRON 2012[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]31.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]39.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]34.1[/url]
[I][B]LEBRON 2013[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]45.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]51.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]46.5[/url][/QUOTE]

Who cares about "load".

Player A: 10 assists, 2 turnovers
Player B: 4 assists, 2 turnovers

Obviously Player A wins.



If Player A's team passes more and turns the ball over less than Player B's though, then your formula will look like:

[B]Player A:[/B] 10 out of 30 team assists (.3) and 2 out of 10 team turnovers (.2)

[B]Player B:[/B] 4 assists out of 20 team assists (.2) and 2 out of 20 team turnovers (.1)

And Player B will win in terms of your BS stat.


GTFO.

[QUOTE=3ball]
The math works out correctly.

For instance, if a team has 5 assists and 5 TO's, and Lebron has 1 assist and 1 TO, then he had 20% of his team's assists and 20% of their TO's, so it's a wash... The assists cancel out the TO's.


[/QUOTE]


No. Teams usually get about 65% more assists than turnovers though. They usually get 25 assists and 15 turnovers. Which will make a turnover worth more than an assist in your BS stat.




Detailed Explanation using your Lebron 1 assist and 1 turnover example:

Lebron's 1 assist will likely be 1 out of 25 team assists, which goes into your BS stat as [B].04[/B] (1/25).

Lebron's 1 turnover will likely be 1 out of 15 team turnovers, which goes into your BS stat as [B].0667 [/B] (1/15).

So, in your stat, this is [B].04 - .0667[/B] and Lebron comes out with a negative number ([B].027[/B] to be exact), not 0. So this is NOT a wash. Which is why your stat is BS.

GTFO.

[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Who cares about "load".

Player A: 10 assists, 2 turnovers
Player B: 4 assists, 2 turnovers

Obviously Player A wins.



If Player A's team passes more and turns the ball over less than Player B's though, then your formula will look like:

[B]Player A:[/B] 10 out of 30 team assists (.3) and 2 out of 10 team turnovers (.2)

[B]Player B:[/B] 4 assists out of 20 team assists (.2) and 2 out of 20 team turnovers (.1)

And Player B will win in terms of your BS stat.


GTFO.[/QUOTE]
It is sad that the OP has to twist stats to make Jordan look good, when Jordan didn't ever need somebody to manipulate his stats to make him look good.

The only thing MJ has ever dominated anyone in is shoe sales

[QUOTE=Yoshi]It is sad that the OP has to twist stats to make Jordan look good, when Jordan didn't ever need somebody to manipulate his stats to make him look good.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Most everyone here has MJ in their Top-3, and most at #1. Very few, if any, have LeBron ranked over him.

Yet, it's one daily topic after another comparing the two.

But it is getting even worse now. He has added Shaq, and Curry, and probably other's into these comparisons, and for the life of me, I don't know why.

Might as well start topics like it is better to be rich, than poor; healthy than sick; attractive than ugly; etc, etc.

[QUOTE=3ball]


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"][I]Percentages of team points + assists - turnovers while player was on floor[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]40.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]51.2[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]53.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]48.2[/url]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.8[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]52.0[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]41.1[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]52.4[/url]

[I][B]LEBRON 2012[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]31.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]39.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]34.1[/url]
[I][B]LEBRON 2013[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs]38.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]45.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]51.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]46.5[/url]



[COLOR="Red"][I][SIZE="3"]Old man Jordan was more dominant during his last 2 championship runs, than prime Lebron was during his only 2[/SIZE][/I][/COLOR]


([I]btw, the math works out correctly - for instance, if a team has 5 assists and 5 TO's in the 4th quarter, and Lebron has 1 assist and 1 TO, then he had 20% of his team's assists and 20% of their TO's, so it's a wash[/I])

.[/QUOTE]
[I][COLOR="Navy"]I'd like someone to explain how these STATISTICS........... are twisted.[/COLOR][/I]

[QUOTE=3ball][I][COLOR="Navy"]I'd like someone to explain how these STATISTICS........... are twisted.[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE]

I already did.

They inexplicably make turnovers worth more than assists.

And also inexplicably penalize a player if the rest of his team gets a lot of assists or a low amount of turnovers.

3ball just stop man. You are embarrassing yourself.

[QUOTE=tmacattack33]

Who cares about "load".

Player A: 10 assists, 2 turnovers...... Player A's Team: 30 assists,
Player B: 4 assists, 2 turnovers...... Player B Team: 20 assists, 10 turnovers

[B]Obviously Player A wins.[/B]

[/quote]
We don't know who wins because we don't know how much their TEAMS assisted and turned it over, so we can't tell how big a proportion of each that Player A and Player B accounted for.

Btw, a sidenote - the 1997 and 1998 Bulls were 2nd and 7th in assists, which was better than the 2012 and 2013 Heat, who were 21st and 7th.


[QUOTE=tmacattack33]

[B]Player A:[/B] 4 assists out of 20 team assists (.2) and 2 out of 20 team turnovers (.1)

[/QUOTE]
This player only accounts for only 10% of his team's turnovers - good for him.... :applause:

this means his proportion of team assists won't be reduced by that much...


[QUOTE=tmacattack33]

[B]Player B:[/B] 10 out of 30 team assists (.3) and 2 out of 10 team turnovers (.2)

[/QUOTE]
This player accounts for a hefty percentage of his team's turnovers (20%)... shame on him....:(

this means his proportion of team assists will be reduced more.

btw - you don't understand simple math - the OP stats are THE most accurate way to measure a player's proportion of team points and assists, after accounting for turnovers... bar none

yeah, but MJ played in the Weak '90s

kinda destroys your whole argument

Every time 3Ball posts, Jordan gets a little bit worse.

I'm looking forward to his demonstration that Jordan was more dominant than Wes Unseld.

[QUOTE=Duffy Pratt]Every time 3Ball posts, Jordan gets a little bit worse.

I'm looking forward to his demonstration that Jordan was more dominant than Wes Unseld.[/QUOTE]
Wow man, I post some really great, informative stats, and you say some dumb shit to trash me

I could cure cancer and you'd still be like, **** 3ball.. think about that (not saying these stats cure cancer, obv)

[QUOTE=3ball]Wow man, I post some really great, informative stats, and you say some dumb shit to trash me

I could cure cancer and you'd still be like, **** 3ball.. think about that (not saying these stats cure cancer, obv)[/QUOTE]
If you cure cancer, you wouldn't be here.