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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Smoke117;14368854]Rudy is clearly the higher impact player at this point. A small sample size in the playoffs doesn’t change that. Ayton hasn’t done anything at a consistent level to be put over Gobert. I don’t even care about Gobert. Everything I’ve said in relation to him and Mitchell is to pour gasoline on the flames and troll. Trying to put Ayton over him, though, is absolutely ****ing moronic.[/QUOTE]
There's a big playoff sample size on Rudy. And it's not good. Its not just losing, its about how you lose. He is the main reason they lost ~ offensive ineptitude + exploitable perimeter defense. Ayton otoh defends the perimeter better, and on offense has a post game and a midrange jumper. The fact that Ayton is playing better in the playoffs right now than Gobert ever has in many tries should show you he's a more complete basketball player.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url]
[QUOTE]Trying to stop a popular NBA fan narrative is like standing in front of a train. But let’s get this out of the way: this series did not say the things about Gobert that many people are claiming it said.
In fact, for much of this series, Gobert was Utah’s best and only chance of really slowing the Clippers down at all, even when they were small and when they abandoned pick-and-roll play altogether to force the 3-time Defensive Player of the Year to guard in space.
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[QUOTE]By the end of Game 2, the Clippers realized that the way to avoid Gobert’s game-changing defensive presence was to stop running pick-and-roll offense almost completely. They committed fully to small lineups and isolation play, and the Jazz’s initial response was to guard them straight up, with man-to-man defense. And in that context, Rudy again was excellent.
Through five games, Gobert was actually Utah’s best isolation defender in the series, per [URL="https://twitter.com/Ben_Dowsett/status/1405548778585608193?s=20"]tracking stats shared by JazzFilmRoom’s Ben Dowsett[/URL]. Gobert wasn’t the reason man defense wasn’t working; everybody else was. George and Jackson had no problem getting right around the first defender, only now there was no Gobert in the paint to offer last-line defensive help.
So the Jazz made another system tweak. By the end of Game 4, Quin Snyder had realized that, while Gobert could hold his own guarding in space, other Jazz defenders were just dying at the point of attack without Gobert behind them to deter drivers. So that’s when he made the decision to [URL="https://twitter.com/danclayt0n/status/1404879326953152512"]let Rudy be Rudy[/URL]: he started pulling Gobert off of his man to show on drives.
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[QUOTE]Similarly, the gambit actualy helped Utah get back in Game 4, as Gobert [URL="https://twitter.com/danclayt0n/status/1404714928359886848"]turned multiple would-be drivers away from the lane[/URL]. It was hit-or-miss in Game 5. In the first half of Game 6, it worked fantastically well: the Clippers were shooting just 6-for-20 from outside, and nobody had really punished the Jazz for exposing the perimeter in an attempt to take away layups.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
But it’s important to remember that they were in this scheme to begin with not because of Gobert’s supposed limitations as a perimeter defender, but because of what his teammates were allowing when he wasn’t near the paint.
Jackson had 10 assists [I]in the second half of Game 6 alone[/I], and it’s easy to watch his assist reel and focus on the tough decision at the end of each play — to close out or not to close out? But if you watch what happens at the beginning of these plays, the complete and utter ease with with Jackson dances around various defenders without even needing a pick, then you understand why the Jazz needed so badly needed Gobert to sag into the paint.
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Like, what happens on those drives if Gobert ISN’T there?
“The problem is if I don’t come and help, we give up layups,” a frustrated Gobert said the day after the Game 6 ouster. “The gameplan was for us to let Terance Mann shoot rather than letting Reggie Jackson or PG get layups.”
So yeah, this scheme was never about Rudy’s limitations: it was about the other four guys’ inability to stay in front of the basketball.
Snyder seemed to concur: “There’s things we didn’t execute on, beginning with being able to defend the ball up front.”
Snyder said that he tried variations on the scheme once the Clippers started hitting. Instead of simply letting Mann and others shoot, they started having Gobert stunt or fake the closeout, or they’d rotate down from the top. For a while they even went into zone defense. But the failure on those plays happens way before the ball ever even gets to the shooter’s hands: the Jazz just simply have to be better at guarding the ball.
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[QUOTE]But what they shouldn’t do is conclude that these breakdowns say things about Gobert’s ability to guard 5-out lineups. Even in 24 minutes that were far from his most impactful defensive half of basketball, the Gobert component of these scheme is not what broke down over and over again.
“Teams have spaced Rudy in the strong corner the entire season,” Snyder acknowledged earlier in the series. “To me, it’s a question of how we execute.”
In other words, what the Clippers did to the Jazz was just an extreme version of something they saw all season long on the way to a 52-20 record. It’s not necessarily the sign of a fatal flaw — and certainly not indicative of an inability on Gobert’s part to guard 5-out lineups. Once more for the people in the back: Gobert’s not the reason they had to abandon man defense and employ this riskier scheme.
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So apparently Ayton just has better teammates and coaching
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Justin Kubatko: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Gobert is the only player in NBA history to average a double-double and shoot at least 60% from the field through his first eight seasons[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/jkubatko"]Twitter jkubatko[/URL]
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14372779]Justin Kubatko: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Gobert is the only player in NBA history to average a double-double and shoot at least 60% from the field through his first eight seasons[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/jkubatko"]Twitter jkubatko[/URL][/QUOTE]
Also the only 6th option to receive a 200m contract
Setting all sorts of records.
Btw good job getting ousted by a team without their best player.
Superstar young guard, perennial all star PG, and elite role players and still can't get out of thr 2nd round because Gobert is a liability on both ends
He's the worst player ever
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url]
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14372801][url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url][/QUOTE]
Rudy isn’t Ayton that’s for sure
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
How come Ayton isnt being torched by small ball and is able to murk them on offense and the glass when a $205 million big couldnt?
Anyone knows?
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Gobert is a monster defensively. How else a franchise where you have the likes of Mitchell, Bojan, Ingles, Clarkson getting big minutes be top 5 in defense. Without Gobert they might be matching the Blazers in defense.
Whether Ayton is better in some matchups doesn't change that.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG;14373750]How come Ayton isnt being torched by small ball and is able to murk them on offense and the glass when a $205 million big couldnt?
Anyone knows?[/QUOTE]
better teammates and coach
[URL="https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/"]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-re...rsus-clippers/[/URL]
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14373808]better teammates and coach
[URL="https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/"]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-re...rsus-clippers/[/URL][/QUOTE]
3rd place in coty. You throw everyone under the bus but Rudy
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14372131][url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url]
So apparently Ayton just has better teammates and coaching[/QUOTE]
Judging by the url definately not biased. You make people hate Rudy with your autistic stanning.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
I wish Rudy would develop a reliable hook shot and 1 countermove. With his height and length, it could be a skyhook-lite. So that when Utah has nothing going on, they can just throw it to Rudy and he'll get a decent shot off.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Overdrive;14373823]Judging by the url definately not biased. You make people hate Rudy with your autistic stanning.[/QUOTE]
He has the best insights unlike the national media who think Mitchell is the best Jazz player ever or that Rudy was the sole reason the Clippers won. Not like he didn't blame other Jazz men. Just sees that it wasn't Rudy's fault and that his teammates and coach didn't carry their weight.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14373840]He has the best insights unlike the national media who think Mitchell is the best Jazz player ever or that Rudy was the sole reason the Clippers won. Not like he didn't blame other Jazz men. Just sees that it wasn't Rudy's fault and that his teammates and coach didn't carry their weight.[/QUOTE]
Yep everybody's fault but Rudy *rolls eyes*
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Manny98;14373858]Yep everybody's fault but Rudy *rolls eyes*[/QUOTE]
no one said that. Everyone is trying to blame everything on Gobert and that certainly wasn't the case unless you're a troll or just not paying attention