Bladefd -"No one has died from the COVID vaccine" Oh really?

[QUOTE=RoseCity07;14385985]I just got the Pfizer yesterday. It wasn't bad but now my arm is pretty sore. Looking at that news story that kid looks like he has genetic issues. You can't vaccinate millions of people and expect no one to die around their vaccination window. If a million people drink orange juice tomorrow. A few will die within that a day or two. That doesn't mean orange juice killed them.[/QUOTE]

So if someone made the statement that Covid deaths themselves are inflated, you'd also agree?

Covid deaths worldwide have been registered as anyone dying within 30 days of testing positive, and a lot of elderlies and people at risk have been tested over and over again.

You also have re-test, which used to be a big thing when everyone was trying to make sure they didn't have covid. There's guy here on ISH who tested positive, then had to quarantine until testing negative. He tested positive two more times within the quarantine period and all counted as a newly detected case of covid.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14385999]So if someone made the statement that Covid deaths themselves are inflated, you'd also agree?

Covid deaths worldwide have been registered as anyone dying within 30 days of testing positive, and a lot of elderlies and people at risk have been tested over and over again.

You also have re-test, which used to be a big thing when everyone was trying to make sure they didn't have covid. There's guy here on ISH who tested positive, then had to quarantine until testing negative. He tested positive two more times within the quarantine period and all counted as a newly detected case of covid.[/QUOTE]

Yes.

Here's the data on death rates by age in the UK:

[url]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5yjr6hVcAUa_b7?format=jpg&name=900x900[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5yjr6hVcAUa_b7?format=jpg&name=900x900[/IMG]

On average, people who died with Covid-19 [I]lived longer[/I] than people who died without it. I believe this is the first "pandemic" virus that fits this description.



This also lines up with the CDCs estimated benefits of the vaccine I posted earlier:

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14380787]Per the CDC and their COVID-19 Vaccine safety updates ([URL="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WYhcFkA3Fz8J:https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-06/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us"]link[/URL])

for every [B][U]1,000,000[/U][/B] Covid-19 vaccinations in 12-17 year olds, 200 hospitalizations & [B][U]1[/U][/B] death from Covid-19 would be prevented.

for every 1,000,000 Covid-19 vaccinations in 12-15 year olds & 16-25 year olds, 3000 events in which medical care in ER/hospital would occur from vaccination.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RoseCity07;14385985]I just got the Pfizer yesterday. It wasn't bad but now my arm is pretty sore. Looking at that news story that kid looks like he has genetic issues. You can't vaccinate millions of people and expect no one to die around their vaccination window. If a million people drink orange juice tomorrow. A few will die within that a day or two. That doesn't mean orange juice killed them.[/QUOTE]

There have also always been breakthrough cases for those fully vaccinated for every vaccine ever created. The whole argument by fools like manny and nanners of a 20,000 cases of people getting covid after the vaccine and claiming the vaccines are useless is a horrendous argument. Find me a vaccine with no breakthrough cases - there is no such thing. Every single vaccine has had a small percentage of breakthrough cases. Not vaccine is 100% effective guaranteed. Even the great polio vaccine wasn't 100% effective.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14385999]So if someone made the statement that Covid deaths themselves are inflated, you'd also agree?

Covid deaths worldwide have been registered as anyone dying within 30 days of testing positive, and a lot of elderlies and people at risk have been tested over and over again.

You also have re-test, which used to be a big thing when everyone was trying to make sure they didn't have covid. There's guy here on ISH who tested positive, then had to quarantine until testing negative. He tested positive two more times within the quarantine period and all counted as a newly detected case of covid.[/QUOTE]

Yes I would, but it would be off by a similar factor. Statistically, some of those people were dying of something else and also had covid. Deaths will be overestimated. But when you have millions of deaths and they all have COVID then millions really did die from this virus. It is negligible if a few thousand were going to die anyway.

[QUOTE=RoseCity07;14386211]Yes I would, but it would be off by a similar factor. Statistically, some of those people were dying of something else and also had covid. Deaths will be overestimated. But when you have millions of deaths and they all have COVID then millions really did die from this virus. It is negligible if a few thousand were going to die anyway.[/QUOTE]

Another element to consider there is that covid tests gave false positives and deaths from those were also labeled covid.

The whole thing is interesting, of course it's natural to compare to the official number of covid deaths as a whole, but a lot of how that number came about has been forgotten.

There were quite a few cities which became kind of hotspots for deaths, due to people who were tested positive being sent to retirement homes.

Including false positives over the last year and a half, latest calculations say that real number of total covid infections in the US so far is at about 135 million, around 3.9 times higher than the number of infections caught in tests. I wonder how many people have been tested for antibodies before taking a vaccine.

[QUOTE=RoseCity07;14386211]Yes I would, but it would be off by a similar factor. Statistically, some of those people were dying of something else and also had covid. Deaths will be overestimated. [B]But when you have millions of deaths and they all have COVID then millions really did die from this virus. It is negligible if a few thousand were going to die anyway.[/B][/QUOTE]

If you have millions of deaths within 30 days of x, then millions really did die from x? I don't think that's always true.

And to your second point, that people were "going to die anyway," aren't we all going to die anyway? I suppose what you're getting at is how much life they had left to begin with. I've pointed out, one of the most important stats on deaths w/ Covid is, on average, people who died with Covid-19 lived longer than people who died without it. I believe this is the first "pandemic" virus that fits this description.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14386229]Another element to consider there is that covid tests gave false positives and deaths from those were also labelled covid.

The whole thing is interesting, of course it's natural to compare to the official number of covid deaths as a whole, but a lot of how that number came about has been forgotten.

There were quite a few cities which became kind of hotspots for deaths, due to people who were tested positive being sent to retirement homes.

Including false positives over the last year and a half, latest calculations say that [B]real number of total covid infections in the US so far is at about 135 million, around 3.9 times higher than the number of infections caught in tests[/B]. I wonder how many people have been tested for antibodies before taking a vaccine.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for pointing this out. I've pointed it out several times on here, but I know a lot of folks simply don't know the data.

Another thing to consider: the number of people who were exposed, but not truly infected. We see this time and time again when someone in a household tests positive, but others in the household (exposed) do not test positive nor get sick. This lines up with what the CDC stated on March 8, 2020, that most Americans will be exposed to the virus before the end of 2020 or 2021.

I'm sure plenty of people on this board can relate, especially those with kids. Think of all the times someone in your home has been sick and how many times others in the home didn't get sick. Similar thing happens with Covid-19. ;)

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14386231]If you have millions of deaths within 30 days of x, then millions really did die from x? I don't think that's always true.

And to your second point, that people were "going to die anyway," aren't we all going to die anyway? I suppose what you're getting at is how much life they had left to begin with. I've pointed out, one of the most important stats on deaths w/ Covid is, on average, people who died with Covid-19 lived longer than people who died without it. I believe this is the first "pandemic" virus that fits this description.[/QUOTE]

In engineering we use statistical methods to determine which parameters contribute to outcomes. It works pretty well when trying to troubleshoot problems and find out what the cause is. I imagine that the medical field does similar hypothesis testing. They know what is abnormal. They look at more than one factor when determining if the vaccine is safe. These are statistical calculations and there are errors involved. I trust this data more than anyone's personal opinion.

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14386232]Thank you for pointing this out. I've pointed it out several times on here, but I know a lot of folks simply don't know the data.

Another thing to consider: the number of people who were exposed, but not truly infected. We see this time and time again when someone in a household tests positive, but others in the household (exposed) do not test positive nor get sick. This lines up with what the CDC stated on March 8, 2020, that most Americans will be exposed to the virus before the end of 2020 or 2021.

I'm sure plenty of people on this board can relate, especially those with kids. Think of all the times someone in your home has been sick and how many times others in the home didn't get sick. Similar thing happens with Covid-19. ;)[/QUOTE]

I think most people are under the impression that the numbers are the numbers, and that covid has been kept down due to restrictions.

Same as with herd immunity, people think now that it can only be achieved through vaccine.

[QUOTE=RoseCity07;14386244]In engineering we use statistical methods to determine which parameters contribute to outcomes. It works pretty well when trying to troubleshoot problems and find out what the cause is. I imagine that the medical field does similar hypothesis testing. They know what is abnormal. They look at more than one factor when determining if the vaccine is safe. These are statistical calculations and there are errors involved. I trust this data more than anyone's personal opinion.[/QUOTE]

The first question I asked was regarding the logic behind your statement. The second question was for you to clarify what you mean by "we're going to die anyway." You didn't address either question.

We just pointed out "the medical field" (aka the gov't) counts deaths within 28 days of a positive test as a death from Covid. Do you think this type of death counting factors in "similar hypothesis testing" and "abnormal"?

Look at more than one factor when determining if the vaccine is safe? I just pointed out the effectiveness and safety using the CDCs own data. According to their opinion, it is safe and effective in children. Do you think it's safe and effective in children?

Personal opinion? Whether or not something is "safe" [I]is[/I] personal opinion, no? Even the cause for someone's death is debatable and involves opinion, no?

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14386246]I think most people are under the impression that the numbers are the numbers, and that covid has been kept down due to restrictions.

Same as with herd immunity, people think now that it can only be achieved through vaccine.[/QUOTE]

They believe it has been "kept down" in the US by an unknown amount (could very well be ~zero), for an unknown goal over an unknown timeframe, by restrictions that have no positive correlation in Covid-19 outcomes in the US and models off sometimes by factors of 300x.

[url]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1399868103140556801.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14386264]The first question I asked was regarding the logic behind your statement. The second question was for you to clarify what you mean by "we're going to die anyway." You didn't address either question.

We just pointed out "the medical field" (aka the gov't) counts deaths within 28 days of a positive test as a death from Covid. Do you think this type of death counting factors in "similar hypothesis testing" and "abnormal"?

Look at more than one factor when determining if the vaccine is safe? I just pointed out the effectiveness and safety using the CDCs own data. According to their opinion, it is safe and effective in children. Do you think it's safe and effective in children?

Personal opinion? Whether or not something is "safe" [I]is[/I] personal opinion, no? Even the cause for someone's death is debatable and involves opinion, no?[/QUOTE]

I never said we are all going to die so who cares. I mean that some of the people that died after the vaccine had an unknown condition that would have killed them within days anyway. I'm not even talking about them getting into a car accident. I'm talking about undiagnosed medical conditions. There were people walking around that dropped dead before the pandemic. It happens every day. Even if the vaccines have killed some people that still would not be a good argument against vaccines. If you can save 100,000, but it doesn't save 10 people, you keep using the vaccine.

Your point on safety is pretty easy to answer. The number is arbitrary but I imagine it would be a number that is far lower than 1 percent. 1 percent of people don't die from a common cold. I don't think 1% died from any flu in the last 80-100 years. 1% is a significant amount of deaths for a flu. We want to see that number more in line with what the numbers said before the pandemic.

[QUOTE=RoseCity07;14386281]Your point on safety is pretty easy to answer. The number is arbitrary but I imagine it would be a number that is far lower than 1 percent. 1 percent of people don't die from a common cold. I don't think 1% died from any flu in the last 80-100 years. 1% is a significant amount of deaths for a flu. We want to see that number more in line with what the numbers said before the pandemic.[/QUOTE]

Ah, ok. I thought you said "we're going to die anyway" in regards to the fact that many who had a positive Covid test were going to die anyway.

Not sure where you're getting the 1% number from, nor exactly how you're applying it when you say "1% is a significant amount of deaths for a flu."

The % of the world population who has died with/from Covid-19 over the past 18 months is ~4 million (approximately 0.05% of world population). Important to note that the median age of death, however, is above average life expectancy and 80% of the deaths occurred in people over the age of 65. This is very different than something like the Swine flu, which killed upwards of approximately 575,000 worldwide and 80% of the deaths occurred in people under the age of 65.

But nobody here cared about influenza just as nobody cared about the 16 million who die every year from infectious diseases. So keep in mind that when we compare it to influenza / deaths by infectious disease we're comparing it to something nobody cared/cares about.

[QUOTE=RoseCity07;14386281]We want to see that number more in line with what the numbers said before the pandemic.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by "we want to see that number?"

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14386331]Ah, ok. I thought you said "we're going to die anyway" in regards to the fact that many who had a positive Covid test were going to die anyway.

Not sure where you're getting the 1% number from, nor exactly how you're applying it when you say "1% is a significant amount of deaths for a flu."

The % of the world population who has died with/from Covid-19 over the past 18 months is ~4 million (approximately 0.05% of world population). Important to note that the median age of death, however, is above average life expectancy and 80% of the deaths occurred in people over the age of 65. This is very different than something like the Swine flu, which killed upwards of approximately 575,000 worldwide and 80% of the deaths occurred in people under the age of 65.

But nobody here cared about influenza just as nobody cared about the 16 million who die every year from infectious diseases. So keep in mind that when we compare it to influenza / deaths by infectious disease we're comparing it to something nobody cared/cares about.


[B]
What do you mean by "we want to see that number?"[/QUOTE][/B]

Society. It's never going to zero. There is an acceptable number though. The problem is no one every says what that is. That's one of my biggest problems with the way politicians handle this. Where is the science? What number of deaths is okay? I think it's whatever the current death rate was for a common seasonal flu.

Big Pharma eating good off of sheep like Blade :lol

You got to give credit where credit is due these people know how to exploit people for money

I wonder if they will introduce a yearly subscription for booster shots soon:lol