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[QUOTE=BurningHammer;14447488][url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-well-vaccinated-maine-covid-19-still-fills-hospitals-with-the-unvaccinated-11632999601[/url][/QUOTE]
So how many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.
If cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how are cases declining in FL? (And many other states in the same region?)
[QUOTE=tpols;14447486]Great thread Clever. I want to give this my stamp of approval but will first need the expert testimony of the great Dr. Tontoz to proceed further. I eagerly await his esteemed, non-biased opinion on the matter. Will report back![/QUOTE]
You really need to invest in Hooked on Phonics before attempting to participate in these threads.
Any more info on those 70k nurses that got fired in NY?
:roll:
Furthermore, if cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how did cases begin to spike ~6-8 weeks following Wisconsin's statewide mask mandate?
How did they dramatically decline in April, May, June, and July following their mask mandating being lifted in March, 2021?
[url]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAUFjeGVUAgoIzm.jpg[/url]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAUFjeGVUAgoIzm.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Cleverness;14447496]So how many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.
If cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how are cases declining in FL? (And many other states in the same region?)[/QUOTE]
[URL]https://www.healthvermont.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/COVID19-Weekly-Data-Summary-9-24-2021.pdf[/URL]
[QUOTE]About 446,306 people have been fully vaccinated in Vermont. The breakthrough cases represent a small portion, about 0.6%, of the fully vaccinated population.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://vtdigger.org/2021/09/24/covid-case-counts-set-vermont-records-and-state-data-shows-concerning-trends-on-fatalities/"]https://vtdigger.org/2021/09/24/covid-case-counts-set-vermont-records-and-state-data-shows-concerning-trends-on-fatalities/
[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/Y9ZDCQ2g/Screenshot-2021-09-30-184527.png[/IMG][/URL]
[QUOTE]The rate of breakthrough infections — that is, cases among fully vaccinated Vermonters — has remained mostly level as compared to the rate in unvaccinated people. Unvaccinated Vermonters were roughly 4.4 times more likely than their vaccinated peers to get Covid over the two-week reporting period, compared to the ratio of roughly 3.5 reported throughout the month of August.[/QUOTE]
That's a cool-looking chart, but it doesn't answer the question at all.
How many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.
If cases rise due to "relaxation of precautions," then how are cases declining in FL? (And many other states in the same region?)
Also, see the WI data from above and explain why the "relaxation of precautions" there did not have a spike in cases for about 4 months.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14447499]You really need to invest in Hooked on Phonics before attempting to participate in these threads.
Any more info on those 70k nurses that got fired in NY?
:roll:[/QUOTE]
Doctor, we don't have time to sidetrack on this issue.
We [I]desperately[/I] await your opinion on this matter. I'm absolutely certain it will be of the utmost integrity and intelligence. Please share with us!
[QUOTE=tpols;14447508]Doctor, we don't have time to sidetrack on this issue.
We [I]desperately[/I] await your opinion on this matter. I'm absolutely certain it will be of the utmost integrity and intelligence. Please share with us![/QUOTE]
My first post explained the situation clearly. If you have any friends maybe you could ask one or them to read it and explain it to you.
I don't envy their task.
[QUOTE=Cleverness;14447507]That's a cool-looking chart, but it doesn't answer the question at all.
How many cases would there have been in Vermont without vaccines? Remember that Vermont is the #1 vaccinated state in the country.
[/QUOTE]
So you didn't read the article or even the chart at all?
[QUOTE=Cleverness;14447481]Good question. I think we should swear in and cross examine the supposed Experts and ask these questions.
One thing we know for sure, is that Vermont is experiencing a record high in new cases while simultaneously being the #1 vaccinated state in the US.
[url]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg[/url]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAeIZnYVgAEc1vw.jpg[/IMG]
Another thing we saw was Covid cases in India declining 81% from peak with 3.5% of the country fully vaccinated. Note that the Delta variant was first discovered in India in 2020.[/QUOTE]
On the flip side, Ontario's 4th wave has been controlled fairly well because of vaccines. Especially hospitalizations.
[QUOTE=n00bie;14447525]On the flip side, Ontario's 4th wave has been controlled fairly well because of vaccines. Especially hospitalizations.[/QUOTE]
How do you know it was because of the vaccines? And why didn't it control the wave in Vermont?
Edit: btw, fyi, vaccination rates for all ages (sorry, don't have data readily available for adults only):
Ontario:
May 1 - 3% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 5.8% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 32.1% fully vaccinated
Florida:
May 1 - 29.9% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 39.2% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 46% fully vaccinated
[QUOTE=BurningHammer;14447522]So you didn't read the article or even the chart at all?[/QUOTE]
I didn't find anywhere in the article that states how many infections (or an estimation thereof) would have occurred without vaccines. The chart doesn't answer that either, though it does group "unknown" with "unvaccinated." Your chart doesn't answer that question nor does the quote you took from the article.
Also, are there any situations in Vermont where there have been different testing criteria for vaccinated/unvaccinated persons?
[QUOTE=Cleverness;14447545]I didn't find anywhere in the article that states how many infections (or an estimation thereof) would have occurred without vaccines. The chart doesn't answer that either, though it does group "unknown" with "unvaccinated." Your chart doesn't answer that question nor does the quote you took from the article.
Also, are there any situations in Vermont where there have been different testing criteria for vaccinated/unvaccinated persons?[/QUOTE]
You probably have to estimate the "would have" cases yourself based on available data out there. If you are an expert in statistic field you may get accurate numbers. :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=Cleverness;14447540]How do you know it was because of the vaccines? And why didn't it control the wave in Vermont?
Edit: btw, fyi, vaccination rates for all ages (sorry, don't have data readily available for adults only):
Ontario:
May 1 - 3% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 5.8% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 32.1% fully vaccinated
Florida:
May 1 - 29.9% fully vaccinated
June 1 - 39.2% fully vaccinated
July 1 - 46% fully vaccinated[/QUOTE]
Ontario slowly distributed vaccines during that time thanks to slow supplies from the US (Ontario mainly use Pfizer and Moderna). Older, medically compromised folks and frontline healthcare workers got double doses earlier around early Summer.
It has been mostly under control with a bump last few months.
[QUOTE=BurningHammer;14447552]You probably have to estimate the "would have" cases yourself based on available data out there. If you are an expert in statistic field you may get accurate numbers. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Ok, but the the article you linked didn't answer his question regarding how many infections (or an estimation thereof) would have occurred without vaccines. The bottom line is we don't know if the number of infections in Vermont would have been any different with/without vaccines. What we know is that with 50% of the adults vaccinated in Vermont, we saw a surge to record highs in cases in Vermont.
Also, are there any situations in Vermont where there have been different testing criteria for vaccinated/unvaccinated persons?