How good was Tracy McGrady actually? (vid)

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14941875]He was pretty clearly trending upwards from 2001( when he joined Orlando) to 2003. That was his 5th year and he was turning 24. It's more likely that we got a glimpse of his prime that year moreso than it being an overachieving thing. The thing is, two years later the league changed the perimeter rules which is what led to all those banner scoring numbers from the likes of Kobe, Iverson, Arenas, Dirk, Nash elevating to MVP level, etc. I think it's fair to assume a healthy Tmac would have similarly exploded, if anything he may have been up there with Kobe dropping 35ppg in 2005/6.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Was going to say almost exactly this lol

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14941898]From 2001-05 he shot 40% from 10-16 feet and 42% from 16 feet-3 point, which is nearly identical to what the other elite wings like Kobe, Pierce, Allen & Vince were shooting from midrange during that timeframe.[/QUOTE]


For his career 33.6% of Mcgradys shot attempts were from 16-23 feet. By comparison:

Kobe 27.1% (whose shot selection sucked also)
Vince 23.2%
Pierce 21.6%
Ray 17.6%

So while the percentages were comparable, the volume wasn't so the net effect hurt Mcgradys efficiency. He loved his pull-up j too much.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14941883]It's pretty widely known that his 2003 season was his last 'healthy' season ( and by that, I mean the last season where his back didn't dramatically affect his play).[/quote]

T-Mac was my favorite player in the league from 2002-2005 and this is not true at all. He bulked up coming into the 2004 season and was a little bit less explosive, but that was about it. Mind you, he did have lingering back issues pretty much his whole career, but they didn't become severe until 2006. He wasn't missing chunks of games due to his back prior to 2006. Enjoyed good health for the most part from 2001-2005 (averaging 75 games per season). Compare that to 61 games per season from 2006-2008.

[quote]His TS% was treading upwards from 2001 up to 2003, in other words he got better from 2001 at age 22 to 2003 at age 24. Nothing odd about that, he got better. :confusedshrug:[/quote]

He was born May of 1979, so he turned 21 in May of 2000 and played his entire first season in Orlando as a 21 year old. 22 in 2002 and 23 in 2003. Yes, it's not odd that he took a big leap in 2003, but more so that he never came close to achieving that level again despite being relatively healthy. Nobody starts declining at 24. When you take a bigger overview of his career and see that he pretty much posted the same numbers from 2001-2008 with the exception of 2003, the only logical conclusion is that he massively overachieved that year. Outlier is the apt term for it.

[QUOTE=Indian guy;14941903]1)T-Mac was my favorite player in the league from 2002-2005 and this is not true at all. He bulked up coming into the 2004 season and was a little bit less explosive, but that was about it. Mind you, he did have lingering back issues pretty much his whole career, but they didn't become severe until 2006. He wasn't missing chunks of games due to his back prior to 2006. Enjoyed good health for the most part from 2001-2005 (averaging 75 games per season). Compare that to 61 games per season from 2006-2008.



2)He was born May of 1979, so he turned 21 in May of 2000 and played his entire first season in Orlando as a 21 year old. 22 in 2002 and 23 in 2003. Yes, it's not odd that he took a big leap in 2003, but more so that he never came close to achieving that level again despite being relatively healthy. Nobody starts declining at 24. When you take a bigger overview of his career and see that he pretty much posted the same numbers from 2001-2008 with the exception of 2003, the only logical conclusion is that he massively overachieved that year. Outlier is the apt term for it.[/QUOTE]

1)He was also mine at the time and that very much was true, but this is a pretty pointless 'yes he was,no he wasn't' part of the discussion. Yes he did bulk up, and that may have worsened or accelerated his back woes, but the tone of your comments suggests he just got worse as a player with the back having little/no impact on that, which is silly. He was laying on his stomach on the sidelines to relieve his back in 2003, the 'outlier' season. If he was your favorite player surely you would recall that. There is absolutely no way you put 2003 Tmac( as far as the state of his health) in 2006 and he's gonna be worse in terms of the numbers.

2) You act as if he completely fell off. Yes, his TS% dropped back to his pre 2003 level but he was still averaging 28ppg. In 2005, the first year in Houston, Yao was on the team so he wasn't going to drop 28-32ppg in that situation( on top of his worsening back) and generally had more talent to work with. Overachieve just seems like a really weird way to frame what happened, especially since you both acknowledge his back condition while underplaying the degree to which it impacted his play after 2003. His back injury was chronic, you simply weren't going to see 'that' guy again and it's a mini-miracle he even got to the level he did get to. To overachieve suggests he just happened to play better than he really was, a season long 'fluke' apparently, and 2001/2002/2004/2005 we saw how good he 'really' was. Just a really...odd argument from my POV.

EDIT: in 2001, he was 2nd team all-NBA and 6th in MVP. In 2002, 1st team all-NBA and 4th in MVP. In 2003, he duplicated those 2002 accolades. Dude was one of the very best players in the league from the moment he touched down in Orlando, so I don't see how he overachieved in 2003. Scored a bit more on higher efficiency, ok. But overachieve when his accolades were basically the same as the prior two seasons?

He's LeBron without Roids and a better jumpshot and handles.

[QUOTE=eliteballer;14941908]He's LeBron without Roids and a better jumpshot and handles.[/QUOTE]

:lol

You continue to be a very weird guy.

T Macs Houston career is very underrated. Four of the five seasons he's in Houston, they won 50+ games. Something he couldn't do in Orlando.

Only this is he was on the west coast. And 50+ wins leads you to a 5th seed in the west.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14941924]T Macs Houston career is very underrated. Four of the five seasons he's in Houston, they won 50+ games. Something he couldn't do in Orlando.

Only this is he was on the west coast. And 50+ wins leads you to a 5th seed in the west.[/QUOTE]


His 13 points in 35 seconds is probably the clutchest sequence I've ever seen.

[video=youtube_share;s4QuUYG6kxI]https://youtu.be/s4QuUYG6kxI?si=fOhgXvc9ArJ_gB2J[/video]

[QUOTE=tpols;14941874]A lot of people talk about desirable cities to work in, and in OPs video Mcgrady said Toronto was cold and depressing. And he ran back to Florida to escape it.[/QUOTE]

Don't blame him at all tbh.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14941924]T Macs Houston career is very underrated. Four of the five seasons he's in Houston, they won 50+ games. Something he couldn't do in Orlando.

Only this is he was on the west coast. And 50+ wins leads you to a 5th seed in the west.[/QUOTE]

Three All-Star selections, an All-NBA 2nd team selection, two All-NBA 3rd team selections, and some MVP votes here and there. Not bad for five injury-interrupted seasons. That's not bad, wouldn't you say? The league was showing him respect [i]in the moment[/i].

Perhaps it's the lack of consideration in retrospect. Is that what you're getting at? I agree with your general sentiment.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14941977]Three All-Star selections, an All-NBA 2nd team selection, two All-NBA 3rd team selections, and some MVP votes here and there. Not bad for five injury-interrupted seasons. That's not bad, wouldn't you say? The league was showing him respect [i]in the moment[/i].

Perhaps it's the lack of consideration in retrospect. Is that what you're getting at? I agree with your general sentiment.[/QUOTE]

McGrady is the millennial Nique.

No one really cares about either, I don't really care about Nique, but everyone who watched Nique care.

McGrady has crazy talent and physical gifts. He was a victim of being too early, had he come into the league today, there would have been better understanding of his game and personality. I don't think Luka would have it easy back in the day either.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14941977]Three All-Star selections, an All-NBA 2nd team selection, two All-NBA 3rd team selections, and some MVP votes here and there. Not bad for five injury-interrupted seasons. That's not bad, wouldn't you say? The league was showing him respect [i]in the moment[/i].

Perhaps it's the lack of consideration in retrospect. Is that what you're getting at? I agree with your general sentiment.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying when you mention T-Mac, you hear about his Orlando career. His Houston time is rarely is never on the table.
He was also part of the 3rd largest won streak of All-Time (I think it's still behind the Lakers ans Heat.)

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14941980]McGrady is the millennial Nique.

No one really cares about either, I don't really care about Nique, but everyone who watched Nique care.

McGrady has crazy talent and physical gifts. He was a victim of being too early, had he come into the league today, there would have been better understanding of his game and personality. I don't think Luka would have it easy back in the day either.[/QUOTE]

People are saying AJ Dybantsa looks like McGrady.

[video=youtube;LlLwx9433Dk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLwx9433Dk&pp=ygULYWogZHliYW50c2E%3D[/video]

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14941982]I'm saying when you mention T-Mac, you hear about his Orlando career. His Houston time is rarely is never on the table.
He was also part of the 3rd largest won streak of All-Time (I think it's still behind the Lakers ans Heat.)[/QUOTE]

:bowdown:

[QUOTE]With new coach Rick Adelman on the sidelines, replacing Jeff Van Gundy and his defensive-minded scheme with a high-paced offensive style, Houston came into the 2007-08 season with high hopes. The team struggled out the gates, though, heading into their last game in January with a record of 24-20.

Few, if any, could have predicted what would happen next. The Rockets would win their next 12 games — nine by double digits — before receiving the crushing news about Yao’s injury.

[B]Rather than wallow, Houston instead rallied behind the team’s remaining All-Star, guard Tracy McGrady. He would average 24.3 points, 5.3 assists and 5.4 rebounds after Yao’s injury, and was helped by a supporting cast that far exceeded expectations.[/B]

Journeyman guard Rafer Alston played the best basketball of his career, averaging 15.7 points and 6.6 assists. Veteran defender Shane Battier stepped up with 10.4 points and 5.5 rebounds, Mutombo and Hayes combined to offset the loss of Yao, and rookie guard Kyle Lowry stepped up with multiple double-digit point performances throughout the streak.

Houston would dominate the last 10 games of the win streak by an average of 14.5 points before falling to Boston 94-74.

With Yao sidelined, Houston finished the season 55-27, earning the fifth seed in one of the tightest Western Conference playoff races in NBA history. The Rockets faced the Utah Jazz in the first round and eventually lost the series in six games to the team that had eliminated Houston in seven first-round games a season earlier.

[video=youtube;h5dOAyuG4Tw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5dOAyuG4Tw[/video]

But nothing could take away from the team’s epic regular season run.

Perhaps the man with the most insight is Battier, who was also a critical member of the Heat’s streak in 2013.

“We knew back then that it was one of the most improbable runs in basketball history — maybe even in sports history,” Battier said reflecting on Houston’s streak . “We were journeymen, a bunch of role players. When we were healthy — with Yao [Ming] and Tracy [McGrady] — that team was pretty good. But we could never stay healthy.

“That was our championship.”[/QUOTE]

Yao and McGrady were a great duo. Houston was 127-61 (55.4 win pace) between 2004-05 and 2007-08 in games they both played. Houston was 18-34 (28.4 win pace) without either of them; without just Yao, they were 47-41 (43.8 win pace); without just McGrady, they were 20-46 (24.9 win pace).

Worth mentioning Houston was a defensively-slanted, slower-paced team. T-Mac's offensive numbers were no doubt suppressed somewhat.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14941984]People are saying AJ Dybantsa looks like McGrady.

[video=youtube;LlLwx9433Dk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlLwx9433Dk&pp=ygULYWogZHliYW50c2E%3D[/video]

[/QUOTE]

Looks good but I'm not seeing elite athleticism or length.

[QUOTE=90sgoat;14941986]Looks good but I'm not seeing elite athleticism or length.[/QUOTE]

I believe McGrady is 6'7" barefoot with a 7'2" wingspan. Same as Ariza. Dybantsa I think is a little taller than 6'7.75" Paul George and has a 6'11" wingspan. Very similar measurements to Jayson Tatum. Both most likely have standing reaches somewhere in the 8'10" to 9'1" range.